C200: How is the 120fps footage looking?

G

George Loch

Well-known member
I am curious what the early adopters think of the 120fps output from the C200? I assume it's not as soft as the 1DX? No hope for output to external recorders?

-gl
 
Usable but nothing to write home about. Softer and mushier with more aliasing than 60p. Glad I have it and glad they built it in. Not bad though and with some added contrast and saturation in CC, can look okay. The 4K 60p CRL looks incredibly great though. You have to be realistic about the C200, it's a RAW camera that happens to also shoot a thin MP4 codec that can be useful for low end work. But the camera really only shines shooting RAW.

I have a RED Weapon 6K laying around for a few weeks, I will be shooting some tests side by side to compare REDcode at 5:1 versus CRL on the C200 at 5:1. I know the RED is going to look much better, but I want to determine if it looks the price, 7X better or just 60% better than a cheap camera shooting CRL. Unfortunately I am not great at grading and CC so I may ask for someone to volunteer who is GREAT at that so I can get a fair comparison between the REDcode and CRL.
 
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I am a little disappointed to hear it's soft. I've been thinking that the C200 would be the way to deliver a RED-like image while keeping the convenience of Canon's video features.

I would be very interested in the comparison.

-gl
 
puredrifting said:
I have a RED Weapon 6K… I will be shooting some tests side by side to compare REDcode at 5:1 versus CRL on the C200 at 5:1. I know the RED is going to look much better, but I want to determine if it looks the price, 7X better or just 60% better than a cheap camera shooting CRL. Unfortunately I am not great at grading and CC so I may ask for someone to volunteer who is GREAT at that so I can get a fair comparison between the REDcode and CRL.
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Im not claiming to be that great color grader you seek above—I'm not quite sure what you're looking for—but I'd be very happy to make a contribution with some analysis in parallel to anyone else you find, if you could organise a few clips from both cameras that I could download. It would be a great opportunity to get some general thoughts on color grading off my chest as well.

I know my way around DaVinci Resolve and I'm up to date on RED's IPP2 workflow. As you know I've shot Canon for a while now, but I'm actually brand agnostic in the sense that I don't favourite one brand over another (but Canon has obviously been a good fit for what I'm looking for in a camera at a certain price). I have no horse in the race, so I think I'd be pretty objective.

Let us know if you make files available—either via an inner circle, or publicly. Big thumbs up if you get around to it!
 
George Loch said:
...I've been thinking that the C200 would be the way to deliver a RED-like image while keeping the convenience of Canon's video features.l
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IMHO, wishful thinking. Only up to 4K 60p in Cinema RAW Light, possibly, we'll see, in the tests. 120 fps is only 1080 .MP4
 
AndreeOnline said:
Im not claiming to be that great color grader you seek above—I'm not quite sure what you're looking for—but I'd be very happy to make a contribution with some analysis in parallel to anyone else you find, if you could organise a few clips from both cameras that I could download. It would be a great opportunity to get some general thoughts on color grading off my chest as well.

I know my way around DaVinci Resolve and I'm up to date on RED's IPP2 workflow. As you know I've shot Canon for a while now, but I'm actually brand agnostic in the sense that I don't favourite one brand over another (but Canon has obviously been a good fit for what I'm looking for in a camera at a certain price). I have no horse in the race, so I think I'd be pretty objective.

Let us know if you make files available—either via an inner circle, or publicly. Big thumbs up if you get around to it!
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Hi Andree:

You've got it, I will be in touch via PM. I am definitely going to shoot some comparison material, just so we can define what the C200 is and isn't. It's definitely not a RED Weapon contender, my bet is that is just poor people's wishful thinking (sarcasm), but it will be fun to see the differences that $43,000.00 additional dollars buys you. Both will be shot with the same lenses, I ordered the RED in EF mount as I didn't think comparing big buck PL lenses with Canon still lenses was fair and we cannot mount PL lenses to the C200, at least yet.
 
120fps is soft so I decided to shoot most things at 50p instead and slow it down it post. It's also limiting to only have 120fps on or off. I'd rather have adjustable fps to select from.
 
One could always add a Sony mirrorless to the kit if they need decent 120p...you won't find it in a Canon camera.
 
NorBro said:
One could always add a Sony mirrorless to the kit if they need decent 120p...you won't find it in a Canon camera.
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From what I have seen, the Sony’s aren’t a great option either. Rolling shutter and crops considered. Maybe the FS5/7. I am probably going to look into the GH5 as most of this would be on a gimbal anyway.
 
That's going to depend on which camera...they all differ based on the model. And they go back as far as 2014 that offer 120p.
 
NorBro said:
That's going to depend on which camera...they all differ based on the model. And they go back as far as 2014 that offer 120p.
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True. The ol' FS700 was a pretty nice slowmo cam. Now, the FS5 is shooting 4K 120 raw with the help of an external recorder :/

-gl
 
FS700 is a legend...FS5 II should be a hoot. Sony's been a step in front of everyone for the past few years...but Blackmagic still has the best 120p by far besides the obvious other choices that are more expensive.
 
Shutter speed.

Shutter speed.

George Loch said:
I am a little disappointed to hear it's soft. I've been thinking that the C200 would be the way to deliver a RED-like image while keeping the convenience of Canon's video features.

I would be very interested in the comparison.

-gl
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We always have to remember when overcranking with canon cameras to set the shutter speed to double the frame rate at a minimum. So if you go to 120 fps, make the shutter speed 1/240, which will have a big effect on sharpness because of better temporal resolution. The cameras do not do this by themselves, we have to make the adjustment . Shutter speed also needs to be reset when going back to your normal frame rate of 24 or 29.97.
 
Mark Smith said:
We always have to remember when overcranking with canon cameras to set the shutter speed to double the frame rate at a minimum. So if you go to 120 fps, make the shutter speed 1/240, which will have a big effect on sharpness because of better temporal resolution. The cameras do not do this by themselves, we have to make the adjustment . Shutter speed also needs to be reset when going back to your normal frame rate of 24 or 29.97.
Click to expand...

Doesn't the C200 allow shutter angle to be set? If so, I would think you could change the frame rate, and the shutter speed would change accordingly per the shutter angle setting. If you choose 180 degree angle, and 29.97 fps, the shutter speed would be 1/60th, etc. Or doesn't that apply when shooting 120 fps on the C200 for some reason?
 
KinostadtFilms said:
Doesn't the C200 allow shutter angle to be set? If so, I would think you could change the frame rate, and the shutter speed would change accordingly per the shutter angle setting. If you choose 180 degree angle, and 29.97 fps, the shutter speed would be 1/60th, etc. Or doesn't that apply when shooting 120 fps on the C200 for some reason?
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It does allow shutter angle. By default it's shutter speed, though. It was literally the first change I made after unboxing...
 
puredrifting said:
Usable but nothing to write home about. Softer and mushier with more aliasing than 60p. Glad I have it and glad they built it in. Not bad though and with some added contrast and saturation in CC, can look okay. The 4K 60p CRL looks incredibly great though. You have to be realistic about the C200, it's a RAW camera that happens to also shoot a thin MP4 codec that can be useful for low end work. But the camera really only shines shooting RAW.

I have a RED Weapon 6K laying around for a few weeks, I will be shooting some tests side by side to compare REDcode at 5:1 versus CRL on the C200 at 5:1. I know the RED is going to look much better, but I want to determine if it looks the price, 7X better or just 60% better than a cheap camera shooting CRL. Unfortunately I am not great at grading and CC so I may ask for someone to volunteer who is GREAT at that so I can get a fair comparison between the REDcode and CRL.
Click to expand...

do you know how it compares to the c300mkii at it's cropped 120fps?
super noob question....would the c300mkii 120 be less soft as it's cropped on the sensor where as the c200 is full sensor so it has to "skip lines".
but as i read that it wouldn't make a lot of sense as the C200's 1080p is really sharp.
 
puredrifting said:
Usable but nothing to write home about. Softer and mushier with more aliasing than 60p. Glad I have it and glad they built it in. Not bad though and with some added contrast and saturation in CC, can look okay. The 4K 60p CRL looks incredibly great though. You have to be realistic about the C200, it's a RAW camera that happens to also shoot a thin MP4 codec that can be useful for low end work. But the camera really only shines shooting RAW.

I have a RED Weapon 6K laying around for a few weeks, I will be shooting some tests side by side to compare REDcode at 5:1 versus CRL on the C200 at 5:1. I know the RED is going to look much better, but I want to determine if it looks the price, 7X better or just 60% better than a cheap camera shooting CRL. Unfortunately I am not great at grading and CC so I may ask for someone to volunteer who is GREAT at that so I can get a fair comparison between the REDcode and CRL.
Click to expand...

Let me know when you do it and im willing to grade. Also when you do it, try the 24p and the 60p of both cameras. Im curious to see the effects of only having 10bit for 60p.
 
adaptation said:
Let me know when you do it and im willing to grade. Also when you do it, try the 24p and the 60p of both cameras. Im curious to see the effects of only having 10bit for 60p.
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Will do. I will upload some test shots for you and Andree in 24p and 60p when I get them shot. Probably won't happen for a week or two...shooting tomorrow for a client, will not have the Weapon and C200 in the same room, shooting interviews with the C200 and b-roll with the Weapon simultaneously
 
Fahnon said:
It does allow shutter angle. By default it's shutter speed, though. It was literally the first change I made after unboxing...
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Thanks for that shutter angle reference... I'm having my monday morning Duh moment. Shutter angle remains constant across frame rate changes and shutter speed does not....
 
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