GH5 How interested are you in a GH6 anymore?

It's already de facto pre-NAB.. Most announcements take place within a week prior to its beginning ... which will be televised. But not attended.

PS. Side note - a couple of weeks ago, I was exchanging opinions on bus stations and airport waiting rooms on an FB group page. I said that the best were in Vegas because there were always some slot/poker machines everywhere. "If you play, time flies by". Then another poster wrote, "I was there in the summer ... it was like being in the middle of Manhattan ... way too many people, way too many lines everywhere".
 
Although many get a head start, most of the announcements happen during the block of days.

And as you know, certain ones are precisely coordinated.
 
Most streaming events take place on the same day but at different hours, so not to overlap.

What's interesting - or, some might say, frightening - is that Sony is the only one with the scheduled streamer so far. Of course, the CES is three months away but it's also in Vegas and its fate is also up for revision.

On the other hand, the Raiders are selling out stadiums. In the same town.
 
Has Panasonic ever announced a new DSLR camera at NAB? I kind of recall most cameras announced or displayed at NAB from either BMD or a ENG or higher end cinema camera like the Varicam.

I'm not sure why we still get hung up on the hope that new consumer or DSLR cameras will be announced at NAB. Its not even that big of a deal really. Companies like Panasonic are well known enough and watched like a hawk by reviewers to not need a big event. The moment the GH6 is announced there will be 500 YouTube opinions about it within an hour. You would literally have to live under a rock containing a ton of lead that blocks all cellular or wifi data to not hear about it.
 
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Thomas Smet said:
. You would literally have to live under a rock containing a ton of lead that blocks all cellular or wifi data to not hear about it.
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Haha so not true. I talk with so many camerapeople in The Real World who have no idea about new cameras 6 months after they're announced. Or people who bought an R5 and got burned by overheating without ever hearing that it was a thing before experiencing it firsthand. Dvxusers are super clued in

Anyway I think we're all just excited about the timing, not NAB itself. We want announcements
 
Who are these creatures? lol

I'd have to agree with Thomas; it's really impossible not to know about a new camera if you're not purposely sheltering yourself from information.

I get that everyone has lives outside of the Internet, but there are way too many sources these days to come across a new announcement, even just seeing a new model number.

Not knowing about a new cameras 6 months after its release or a major issue like overheating on the R5 speaks more about that person and his or her lack of interest in the state of the industry.
 
NorBro said:
Not knowing about a new cameras 6 months after its release or a major issue like overheating on the R5 speaks more about that person and his or her lack of interest in the state of the industry.
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I'm telling you man, this is so common among people I work with intermittently who are working professionals but not gearheads. They just use the same **** as long as they can and aren't necessarily interested in upgrading anyway. They don't go on technical blogs. But they do shoot frequently.

But this is the type of person who, for example, is a wedding shooter I told that Sony was going to upgrade the codecs (bit-depth, all-intra, etc) from his a7iii and a6500 and he asked me, "Sweet - does that mean I'll be able to record 4K using less data?" And I was like, "...No, it'll be the opposite. It'll use more data." And he was like, "Why would I want that?"

Then there's the AFI cinematography graduate who used to AC with me and now teaches cinematography at the New School in NYC. She hired me to op a concert recently with the FS7 and I had a dickens of a time explaining to her what a long-GOP codec was and the difference between that and All-Intra. She also doesn't know about new mirrorless cameras coming out. (But i'm sure she'd be more at home lighting a scripted drama set than me.)
 
I do believe you because when I started in the industry I met a lot of people who weren't very tech-savvy even though they were cameraman. They were absolutely amazing at slinging a camera but they didn't bother with understanding the specifications of their system outside of the SOP knowledge.

I just think it's different in 2021.

You don't have to know about every single new camera and all of its features, but I think everyone who's a cameraman/woman/DP should have a basic understanding of the new technology coming and going (or formats/codecs and data rates in your case) so you're more well-rounded in your career.
 
Maybe... Although you could still make a good living by employing decades-old lighting techniques (that look really good) and using a 10-year old camera and getting repeat business from people who know you and like your work. Almost as if nothing changed in the last 10 years. You might even be better off than someone who knows every little thing that's come out

But also, not everyone needs to know about mirrorless cameras. Some people don't take them seriously at all
 
That's definitely true because I know a guy who is still filming depositions in SD and no one notices a difference (as far as what I know about the endeavor).

There's a lot of niche video work out there in which the receiving end will not notice a difference if they are just as much in a bubble as the videographer (or both simply don't need anything better and/or don't care).

As far as mirrorless cameras, that's understandable as far as a visual bias - but for a long time they had the best technology so if you weren't taking them seriously, you weren't learning about AF and IBIS and RAW and other features, which actually makes a lot of sense because it took a long time, about 8-10 years, for people to finally start accepting certain features seriously.

In my honest opinion, I think the video industry has some of the lowest IQs and the highest IQs mixed together doing the same work.
 
NorBro said:
There's a lot of niche video work out there in which the receiving end will not notice a difference if they are just as much in a bubble as the videographer (or both simply don't need anything better and/or don't care)...

As far as mirrorless cameras, that's understandable as far as a visual bias - but for a long time they had the best technology so if you weren't taking them seriously, you weren't learning about AF and IBIS and RAW and other features, which actually makes a lot of sense because it took a long time, about 8-10 years, for people to finally start accepting certain features seriously.

In my honest opinion, I think the video industry has some of the lowest IQs and the highest IQs mixed together doing the same work.
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There's also a lot of non-niche video work that doesn't care. It costs time to keep up with the latest tech news. And there are risks in being an early adopter. It's rare that a new camera takes the market by storm from release. More often it happens a year after it comes out, once the firmware has patched up its holes and once producers have seen it in action.

Also, if the old camera was good enough, then it's still good enough. We're talking about marginal improvements.

Mirrorless cameras still don't have proper I/O or internal ND. There are a lot of ways in which they will always be inferior to "real" cameras. I have to buy an FX3 just to get a damn fan in my A7SIII. And tally lights!!! But still no ND...

A lot of the most successful cinematographers and photographers of all time are not gearheads and didn't keep up with the latest tech news because they have been more focused on technique and emotion, which are ultimately more important. Of course, there are counterexamples, but nevertheless, the tech is not of utmost importance. Now Noel Evans is talking about how he thinks all cameras are good enough and we should exile discussions of specific models lol
 
Actually many new cameras immediately take the market by storm. Whether it's used in your (anyone's) particular line of work or by the people hiring you is a different thought.

In general, this conversation has a lot of moving parts, but I firmly believe that more people today know more specs than ever before, and the ones who don't are simply behind the times or old and rich and famous who grew through the industry in a different time.
 
the 5Dmk2 was an instant hit, and the C300mk1 I think. also the alexa. to some extent the red one. maybe bmpcc4k in its own segment.

but what about venice? fs7? even people adopting c300mk2 or c300mk3 late?

and in my particular line of work, I haven't shot with an fx9 or fx6 yet, although I know people who own them. I keep getting told that it's great that I have an FS7 because that's what the other shooter will also be bringing.

I'm just telling you - the people I work with, some of whom work quite frequently and are very good at what they do - do not know as much about specs and models as many hobbyists. there are exceptions, of course, and I know gearheads who know more about cameras and buy more cameras than I do.

making the money is all about technique, technique, technique
 
In general, there have been less than 15 higher-end cinema camera bodies in the last 10 years depending on how you count them and who you include, so it really depends what you want to say about them - but the C300 and FS7 were probably in the top 3 of the most successful of all time (as far as truly professional cameras besides the Alexa and any REDs being used in Hollywood).

The C300 Mark II was as well to some extent, but at that point most people wanted to pay less.

As far as the smaller stills cameras, like the 5D Mark II, there are about 20 I'm sure you can name that have taken the market by storm (unless you weren't on forums or YouTube years ago).

___

As far as making money, I can't understand how you can say it's all about technique, especially the way you emphasized it 3 times.

For the 1%'s film work, for sure, a beautiful art indeed, but technique can have very little to do with making money, 20 years ago or now.

For many of us, we started operating a camera because it was a very quick and easy way to make money in a certain line of work, and there was no technique involved besides understanding the basics of video production.
 
NorBro said:
As far as the smaller stills cameras, like the 5D Mark II, there are about 20 I'm sure you can name that have taken the market by storm (unless you weren't on forums or YouTube years ago).
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Isn't that a contradiction? If 20 cameras take the market by storm then none do, because taking the market by storm involves displacing everything else.

I'm talking about cameras that it seemed like EVERYBODY owned. I would say canon 5dmk2, 7d, 5dmk3. Sony a7sii, a7iii. Panasonic gh4 and maybe gh5. And that's it. Maybe not even all of those

For the 1%'s film work, for sure, a beautiful art indeed, but technique can have very little to do with making money, 20 years ago or now.
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That's easy to counterexample. Your clients don't need to know anything about technique. If they hire 2 different DPs for 2 different interview shoots and one makes the talent look ugly and the other makes the talent look handsome, using the exact same camera and lights, they're gonna hire the DP who made him look handsome the next time.

Same thing if one OMB gets clean sound and the other gets scratchy sound. I don't know if you were following the discussion of techniques for hiding lavs in the other thread.

Wedding photographers are super focused on posing and staging the couple. And finding good natural light. All of which is gear-agnostic.

For me, knowing which gear I'm going to need when during a wedding shoot and packing accordingly is crucial to actually using it.. buying the gear and bringing it is only the first step..

Then there's gimbal techniques.. balancing the rig,, footsteps, arm positions and movements, joystick and pivot control.

Even if you buy a good AF camera, you should know which settings work best when.

The list goes on and on and on. And the client observes the differences in the results even if they don't understand how or why
 
ahalpert said:
Isn't that a contradiction? If 20 cameras take the market by storm then none do, because taking the market by storm involves displacing everything else.

I'm talking about cameras that it seemed like EVERYBODY owned. I would say canon 5dmk2, 7d, 5dmk3. Sony a7sii, a7iii. Panasonic gh4 and maybe gh5. And that's it. Maybe not even all of those

That's easy to counterexample. Your clients don't need to know anything about technique. If they hire 2 different DPs for 2 different interview shoots and one makes the talent look ugly and the other makes the talent look handsome, using the exact same camera and lights, they're gonna hire the DP who made him look handsome the next time.

Same thing if one OMB gets clean sound and the other gets scratchy sound. I don't know if you were following the discussion of techniques for hiding lavs in the other thread.

Wedding photographers are super focused on posing and staging the couple. And finding good natural light. All of which is gear-agnostic.

For me, knowing which gear I'm going to need when during a wedding shoot and packing accordingly is crucial to actually using it.. buying the gear and bringing it is only the first step..

Then there's gimbal techniques.. balancing the rig,, footsteps, arm positions and movements, joystick and pivot control.

Even if you buy a good AF camera, you should know which settings work best when.

The list goes on and on and on. And the client observes the differences in the results even if they don't understand how or why
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lol, you think too much (and it's not the good kind of thinking).

20 cameras in the last 8 or so years. A few per year.

No, it's not a contradiction because multiple cameras can take the market by storm like the R5 and a7SIII, months apart.

And if technique means being competent then OKAY, you need technique.
 
I haven't met a single other person in The Real World who owns an A7SIII. I've met a number with the R5, all stills shooters. Neither camera has taken the market by storm. Being a best seller at B&H is not the same thing.

yes, technique means being competent, not just owning good gear. And ideally, it means being exceptional. In every sector and at every budget tier, you will be able to make more money and be in more demand by having exceptional technique rather than just competent technique
 
See, that's why conversations can be so difficult with you, man...the way you think is just, ughh

Thousands of videos about the cameras from everyone under the sun, numerous articles on blogs/info sites, out of stock for months everywhere, so much hype around them, both companies said they exceeded expectations...yet they didn't take the market by storm in your opinion because you haven't met anyone with them.

You need new friends, bro
 
I work alongside new shooters all the frigging time

The volume of marketing videos doesn't mean diddly squat. Neither does being out of stock, especially considering supply constraints.

There was a time when it felt like everyone and his dog owned a 5dmk2. Then a 7d. Then a 5dmk3. Not so with the 5dmk4. Similarly, the gh4 and maybe gh5 as well as the a7sii felt ubiquitous. If someone didn't own one, they owned the other, at least as a b/gimbal camera

I really don't feel like there's any single new camera out there that is ubiquitous. The market is more evenly divided. And possibly the upgrade cycle has slowed due to the pandemic.

If anything, the FX9 has seen the highest uptake among shooters i know rather than the fx6 or any other sony or canon camera. But far and away, most of the folks i know have stuck with their fs7 or c300mk2
 
Not everyone can afford a ~$4K camera (announced during a pandemic).

Part of taking the market by storm is the hype and discussion surrounding the product; not just owning it.

We are talking about the R5 and a7SIII...yo, what are you even saying.

P.S. My tone is light...no hard feelings, per usual. It wouldn't be a normal day for me without arguing with ahalpert about something. :bath:
 
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