C100: How do non DPAF users maintain focus during run n gun filming?

jcs said:
Manual focus isn't that hard if you have the right tools. I used an inexpensive viewfinder attached to the back of a 5D3 (along with a simple single handle mounted below the camera) to shoot this footage while Elena and I ran around randomly:
Click to expand...

That's pretty much how probably most of us shot with the 5Ds...viewfinder on the LCD on magnets or a bracket via the 1/4-20 thread. The magnification is excellent and it helps probably better than anything, but you're still constantly losing focus in that video (even if for a second) from any unpredictable movement by you, the subject, or both of you (and trust me I would do worse)...so that's why DPAF is so necessary for many of us who do know how to focus and may even be decent at it...but maybe just don't want to do it anymore...or at least not as much, ha.

None of us will ever be able to keep up with a computer (DPAF) as far as consistency unless everything is pretty deep.

But if you're looking to stay shallow with a big sensor and movement is in the forecast, there's just no way.

There are actually a lot of out-of-focus shots in Hollywood movies (even television), but the editing hides it most of the time.

---

EDIT: P.S. I was looking for a similar video to yours yesterday with DPAF but I couldn't find it. Here's something else though...I'm sure the best shots were chosen in post, but nevertheless the focus appears flawless throughout (I also understand it was shot at 60fps):

Maybe NSFW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZEMjjo2R_M
 
Last edited:
The true power of DPAF isn't in the continuous AF, although that can be useful in certain instances. I find it most useful in manual focus with tracking. Maybe hit one touch every once in a while. Maybe assign continuous on/off or tracking to a button so that I can use continuous but only when I am sure that there is enough light. I also slow down the AF response so that it feels more organic. The MF assist feature is great for a rack focus shot. And now with the new C200 touch screen, it is really fast to change focus points.

Canon spent a lot of time on their focus assist options, but I don't think most camera ops realize that the newer DPAF is more than just continuous tracking or a quick one touch focus check in the center of the frame.
 
scorsesefan said:
I would love to have DPAF on my C100 for my run n' gun work but at $500 for the upgrade that's nearly 1/3 of the resale price of the cam at this point. I even emailed Canon to suggest that they lower the price of the upgrade for non-DPAF owners in my situation (I doubt they're doing many upgrades at this point) but I could almost hear them laughing as they responded to my email...
Click to expand...

I constantly see people that are fixated on the re-sale prices of their gear and I don't get it. If you are still using the camera and you're still making your full rate with it, $500 should be a non-thought if it's going to get you something that's going to make your life easier and your work better. Unless you're planning on ditching the camera tomorrow, you should be able to recoupe that $500 in the blink of an eye.
 
Run&Gun said:
I constantly see people that are fixated on the re-sale prices of their gear and I don't get it. If you are still using the camera and you're still making your full rate with it, $500 should be a non-thought if it's going to get you something that's going to make your life easier and your work better. Unless you're planning on ditching the camera tomorrow, you should be able to recoupe that $500 in the blink of an eye.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree but 99% of my paid work is not run n' gun. Really, it's for my personal projects, which I'm sure would be greatly aided by DPAF...
 
Had a shoot this morning and tried to go all manual as a test, as soon as the heat was on I went DPAF. I don’t use it continuously or very rarely and the mk1 doesn’t have face tracking, but that one tap on an assigned button on the handgrip
really is so damn handy. I’ve been thinking about this a lot
lately and remembering back to the 5D’s and basically did the same thing to achieve focus,but manually
punched in and adjusted focus and then reframed my shot. Occasional I’ll shoot on other gear like fs700 and I’ll work in this way but it’s been a while and I’m getting a bit cagey about the thought of shooting on non canon gear. I guess the DPAF just saves a lot more shots working this way, but I’m not feeling as beholden to Canon as I did a week ago when’s I started this post
 
A few things. . .I have the C100 Mk1 with DPAF. It seems like there is no indicator to tell you when it's active or not. . .but I ALSO swear that I have seen something in the display that tells you it's on/off. . .anyone know?

Also, Even with the SmallHD502 I am still having trouble seeing when I am just slightly soft. . .especially with moving subjects. If you have time to sit and focus on a static interview subject, that's one thing, but trying to track someone who's moving is another. Anyone have recommended peaking/focus assist settings with that monitor? Yes, these are new glasses.
 
NorBro said:
EDIT: P.S. I was looking for a similar video to yours yesterday with DPAF but I couldn't find it. Here's something else though...I'm sure the best shots were chosen in post, but nevertheless the focus appears flawless throughout (I also understand it was shot at 60fps):
Click to expand...

Might be hard to find something similar- we were intentionally moving around like that to test focusing ability. And again, with practice, as long as it's possible to accurately see focus, everyone would get better.

Here's the A7S (I), shot with (not very good contrast) AF and manual focus in super low light, not challenging motion tracking but worked OK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq8m2FaVL1U

This might be a little more NSFW, shot as a test run (which we kept) with a cheap Flycam Nano, GH4 + 12-35 F2.8 (not very good AF). Still turned out OK without DPAF:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN0R3UAsoPs

Same setup, contrast AF GH4, not having DPAF wasn't a big deal as distance to subject was relatively constant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc2LXH_MsQQ

Shot planning can help when DPAF isn't available.

@Josh: have you considered adding the viewfinder? http://store.smallhd.com/store/500-accessories/sidefinder-accessory . I would expect that to help quite a bit with getting better focus.
 
Josh Bass said:
A few things. . .I have the C100 Mk1 with DPAF. It seems like there is no indicator to tell you when it's active or not. . .but I ALSO swear that I have seen something in the display that tells you it's on/off. . .anyone know?

Also, Even with the SmallHD502 I am still having trouble seeing when I am just slightly soft. . .especially with moving subjects. If you have time to sit and focus on a static interview subject, that's one thing, but trying to track someone who's moving is another. Anyone have recommended peaking/focus assist settings with that monitor? Yes, these are new glasses.
Click to expand...

——

There’s a grey square in the center that’s show when it’s enabled, it turns white (I think it’s white) when it’s active.
 
I shot fast moving race boats last summer from a moving boat with my C100 MKI before I sold it, 18-135 STM IS and continuous DPAF center frame worked pretty well in a situation that I never could have manually focused. It wasn't 100% but about a 90% keeper rate. I think another thing some people don't think about is even with the manual focus aids, trying to manually track focus with focus by wire lenses is impossible. For doing that, you need old Nikon manual or cine lenses with mechanical focus. Then achieving focus at least becomes a possibility.
 
puredrifting said:
I shot fast moving race boats last summer from a moving boat with my C100 MKI before I sold it, 18-135 STM IS and continuous DPAF center frame worked pretty well in a situation that I never could have manually focused. It wasn't 100% but about a 90% keeper rate. I think another thing some people don't think about is even with the manual focus aids, trying to manually track focus with focus by wire lenses is impossible. For doing that, you need old Nikon manual or cine lenses with mechanical focus. Then achieving focus at least becomes a possibility.
Click to expand...

==
On a side not PureDrifing has previously said there is something about the C100 image that looks more filmic to him than the C200. I'd happily swap mine for a c200 but its good to know this camera still has the goods!
 
puredrifting said:
trying to manually track focus with focus by wire lenses is impossible. For doing that, you need old Nikon manual or cine lenses with mechanical focus.
Click to expand...

Modern F-mount and most EF mount lenses have mechanical focus too. There are varying degrees of quality & throw, and each brand has their own form of 'clutch' that allows MF to still work when AF in engaged, but they are still predictable for manual focusing (albeit far from a proper cine lens).

Fly-by-wire lenses are mostly currently found on mirrorless systems, as well as the Canon STM lenses, and maybe a few others. These are the lenses that are terrible for MF due to the lag, and the speed you turn the ring at ramps the focusing speed, so your marks will never be in the same spot twice.
 
If you're going to go full manual, a follow focus can be incredibly useful. I use cine lenses so everything is manual. I couldn't live without my follow focus. It never comes off of the rods. You'll also need to spend time knowing your lenses and how much throw they need to hit focus.
 
For those people wanting to use the DPAF on their manual focus lenses, I've done a bit of testing.

The AF confirm chips will allow you to use the MF assist boxes. Unfortunately they are not accurate unless you have the correct aperture specified. That was interesting to discover. Luckily the EMF AF confirm chip allows you to have the camera "change" the aperture of the lens and it seems to be fairly accurate. It also allows you to change the focal length being specified by the chip which might make it even more accurate. I haven't tested that as all of my MF lenses are M42 f/2.8 lenses accept for the 50mm's and it is accurate enough for those lenses.

In any case, the EMF AF chips can be used to fool a camera with an EF mount to let you use the MF assist features.
 
jcs said:
This will solve all your focus issues, especially when hanging off say an F-22 doing an inverted low altitude runway pass at Mach .9: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/915823-REG/rising_rpsc001_camera_pinhole_body_cap.html . That's right F222 works with the F-22. And it's only 30 bucks. Win win.
Click to expand...

Lol I’ll have to try this one out! In the meantime I just thought it was my cheap 18-55 stm kit lens that was a pain to focus, but sounds like cheap wasn’t the issue and STM is. My 17-55 is actually easier with a Follow focus gear attached, maybe it gives it a bit more travel.
 
Barry1908 said:
Lol I’ll have to try this one out! In the meantime I just thought it was my cheap 18-55 stm kit lens that was a pain to focus, but sounds like cheap wasn’t the issue and STM is. My 17-55 is actually easier with a Follow focus gear attached, maybe it gives it a bit more travel.
Click to expand...

Yes focus by wire is certainly more challenging, though with practice and a decent means to see accurate focus (vs relying on stops/marks/distance/memory) it can be done. All my Sony lenses were focus by wire and was able to make work, especially when combined with AF (contrast AF wasn’t great, but got in ballpark so MF could be used to fine tune). Wireless FF is effectively the same, fully decoupled and with lag, so perhaps firmware updates to lenses/cameras can provide a linear/absolute position option. This would be as good as wireless FF on a manual lens.
 
I find it easy, but only because I've never used autofocus and always had manual lenses.

The key for me is the following:

1. Using a magnifier/loupe on the rear LCD screen
2. Stopping the lens down to around f5.6 or lower
3. Not using focus peaking (it's way too generous)
4. Practice
5. Having good eyesight
6. Being able to use the punch-in zoom on the fly
7. Use a wide focal length if possible
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top