F35: Holy smokes, I bought a F35 too

No record button on camera to the SR-R1correct? that to me is a big disadvantage vs srw1 and Codex. And no speed ramping, which I have seen beautifully used. Not the same as shooting 50fps and slowing it down in post IMO. All the rest you said stands true man. The f35/23 with the srw1 in the back is heavy, but man, thing is really well balanced. Amazing really.

No. The record button on the F35 doesn't work with the SR-R1. But to be honest that button is only useful on a tripod anyway. On the shoulder it is always behind your ear. And there are easy solutions to that too. The SR-R1 has a remote control and you can put that anywhere you find convenient to start the camera. Or you can have a start button on your handgrip, which is what I have.

So the start stop is hardly a deal breaker for the SR-R1.

I never said the ramping from 50fps is the same as doing it in post. It is absolutely not. I'm never a fan of faking things. What I said is that the difference between 24 or 25fps and 50fps does not produce a dramatic enough effect. If you have 200 to 24fps or even 120 to 24fps is a very dramatic effect. But 50 to 24fps, depending on the shot, angle and blocking you have to pay attention to even notice it. It kind of becomes like shooting 3D where you are now shooting around to emphasize your gimmick instead of the story. So all I'm saying is that in my opinion, for my use, the ramping is not enough to make go back to tape or use a much more power hungry recorder as a main recorder.

The SRW1 was a great recorder in its day. It was a technological solution for a problem based on what was possible in the day. Today I feel like using it as a main recorder is handicapping the camera. I never shoot anything besides 12-bit. I feel that at this point the only reason to use the F35 is to get its full quality. So from all the advantages of the SRW1, the only one I truly find important is the variable frame rates. I find myself needing that more often than a ramping gimmick. As I already mentioned, I have a start stop button on my grip.

The tape workflow is enough of a hindrance. You are not even supposed to use the HDCAM recording for reviewing. You were supposed to watch what video village had recorded. Because the tape is your master and every time you watch a tape it loses quality. These were the instructions back in the day. Then you also have to rewind the tape, forward it again to place and make sure not to record over the last take, all of which also adds degradation. This is if reviewing the take once is enough. And this is also before going back and having to playback the whole tape to digitize it. This might be obvious for some. But tapeless workflow has become the normal and many have actually never even worked with tape on a professional environment. I definitely have no wish of going back and the SRW1 offers nothing that would lure me into going back.

The Codex is an interesting beast. Because this is what it is, a beast and an ancient one at that. On paper it looks like a dream. You can get a wet dock that will talk to the F35 just like a SRW1 will, if you can find one, you get all the goodies and all. But then you use it and see it for what it truly is. Really old technology at this point, harder to use and not as fully integrated as it initially seemed.

You get to record all flavors the F35 offers. But you will find yourself transcoding everything and as dhessel said, it's all Mac only. The docks, drives and the whole system is just old tech. They are huge, cumbersome and heavy. Great in the day. But today that volume for 256GB is just a waste. All together I think dhessel painted a very fair picture of the Codex. In my opinion it is just not that easy or even a nice experience to use. Again as with the SRW1, having ramping and variable frame rates, both features I and I suspect many don't use on a daily basis, wasn't enough to make me use the Codex as a main recorder. So it had to go. Because besides start stop, which I have with my SR-R1, the only advantages of the Codex are the ramping and variable frame rates.

The SR-R1 supports 12-bit, supports 444 50p and offers 3 format flavors. So you are covered whether you need a quick and dirty light weight file for a test or 12-bit 444 full quality. All recorded directly to the cards in a ready to edit codec. No transcoding no messing. Pop the card in, open it on the NLE and edit away.

The SR-R1 is also smaller and lighter than the Codex. It feels like just one of the media bricks in the Codex weighs as much. It sucks less power too.

So the SR-R1 has much of the codex functionality and none of the annoying things the Codex does. You don't need to turn the SR-R1 off just to switch formats either.

Then the SR-R1 can be docked directly to the F35. Either on the back or on top, which I have done several times, when needing to back the camera up against a wall as much as possible in a small room. And this is a no fuzz operation as you can have a set up with no cables. Just dock it off the back, dock it on the top. Like you would a Codex or SRW1. Mine lives of the camera. But if you need to take it off to store in the end of the day, again no fuzz. Just dock it off. No cable salad to worry about, as you have for example with a monitor recorder.

All together my least favorite are monitor recorders. They seem like an amateur solution. Their biggest advantage springs from the notion one needs a monitor anyway. But I actually don't. I seldomly have a monitor on the camera. Almost never. Only when I can't be at the camera in a remote shot.

I don't need a monitor for exposure. I don't think an on set monitor is a good way to judge color. So it would be just a framing device. For that I have the much better suited tool, the EVF. It has a smaller footprint, sucks less power and my picture is protected from any external distractions.

For focus, again I prefer the EVF and if I'm not pulling focus, I normally don't like working with ACs who pull by monitor. The ones I have worked with have all pulled by eye anyway.

When it comes to the F35, I use it much as I would a film camera. This is one of the nicest things about it. You can do that easily. Not possible with most digital cameras.

So since I don't have much use for an onboard monitor, and the camera flows so much better without extra stuff mounted to it, a monitor recorder was always last on my list. Then when I tested the 7Q I found it was a bit temperamental too.

My SR-R1 works every single time, out of the box, just as the last time. It's 100% hassle free. My set up has no cables to the camera. Docks directly to the camera. Clean and easy. Again just as a SRW1 or Codex would. I can start and stop it from anywhere around the camera using the remote or from my grip. The extra weight and configuration adds on balancing the camera and I have two mounting positions for the recorder. It all just works!

So as I said, since we never got the SR-R3, which would have been the absolute perfect solution, I feel that at least for my needs the SR-R1 is the next best thing. I think it has the least hindering compromises. This is all of course based on my own experience, needs and opinion. And I do know others have different opinions and that is fine :)
 
Thanks man, nice write up. Tons of info you dont find anywhere. I appreciate it.

I have the odyssey but I'm itching to try the sr-r1. Anyone has a kit for sale? There is one right now on Ebay, recorder only for $700.00 (from China comes with the Corona virus). What prices should be appropriate for a kit?
 
You're welcome.

I do believe the SR-R1 represents the best path to the ultimate F35 shooting system.

But I don't mean to mislead you here. If not clear from my post, some of the "features" I mentioned in my system are custom.

The SR-R1 is not made to dock to the F35 out of the box. Out of the box you will have to mount it on rails or any other place and run cables to the camera, as you would with any other recorder apart fro the SRW1 and Codex.

But the docking is an easy modification and can cost as little as 150 if you want to do it right. That's for a dumb mount. Mine is a "smart" dock, so I don't need to mess with cables.

My start and stop is also custom. But as I said you can mount the SR-R1 remote anywhere around the camera. If you work with an AC, he can also start it for you. But all this is only an issue for shoulder shooting anyway. Any other shooting mode you can start it as you would a 7Q. Not any more cumbersome.

That price to me at least seems dirty cheap. I bought my system new and they were still expensive. I think list price for the recorder was around 8K, cards were over 1K a pop for the slowest ones and I think another 2K for the card reader.

Nowadays I'm sure you can find all for much cheaper. It's a HD system after all. Best would be to find a complete system. Especially the card reader is not so easy to find used and new ones still sell for MSRP.

It was not the cheapest solution. Actually it was the most expensive path. A codex used system was cheaper and they had a few going around back then. Because of the price it would amount to, including the camera, I even checked a F65, which were starting to be offered for cheaper then. I was offered a good price on a F65 kit. They were not giving them away as they are today though. But the F65 did nothing for me. It left me cold.

So I invested in the SR-R1 system and never looked back. I have 2 now. So I do believe it is the best solution.

Have a look around. Also outside eBay. On broadcast brokers and the like. Maybe you will find a system.

But if you get the recorder cheap enough, the cards are not impossible to find used. They often pop on eBay and I would guess you could get them for a few hundred each.

The hardest piece to find is the card reader. When you do find an used one is the big one (SR-PC4) which was normally used with the F65. It comes in every used F65 kit. That will work and normally be cheaper than the small one (SR-D1). But it's hard to work with. You need to set a network with IP address. The SR-D1 is plug and play USB and works as any other card reader. That's the one you want.

A minimum system would be:

SR-R1
2x 256GB cards
1x card reader.
1x power cable.

Good luck!
 
Funny how topics seem to go in circles around here.

The SRR3 that never was is the easy answer to best recorder to interface with the Sony F35. Every other system comes with drawbacks. The SRR1 has to dumb mount to the camera, it was for the F3 not the F35. It’s a bummer because of what could of been if Sony had released the 2k update/SRR3 they printed in magazines about!

It’s the reason the F35 costs 3k not 7k right now also. It’s never a simple system like the inferior but entirely easier Alexa classic.

My camera balances fine, I use 7Q. It was all about finding a system to mount 7Q far out enough to let the camera sit back on the shoulder. You need a certain firmware, lookup in old threads I forget which one it is. You don’t need dual drives for dpx 24 FPS.

7Q cables ultimately bug me but I learn to be very cautious of bumping them. If 7Q is your screen all the info is there.

It was a pretty big deal that Convergent Design took any time to support the F35. 10-bit 422 is easy. 12-bit 444 over dual link in a proprietary psf wasn’t something anyone cared about anymore. 12-bit direct to SSD was most important to me and it is feature the 7Q excels at.

I'll let you in on a secret: It was easy to support the F35 on the Odyssey7Q. That's because the weird PSF format was kinda similar to the oddball way the original Canon C500 output 12-bit 444. A bit of a shame we had done all that work at CD to support a camera & format that hardly anyone ever used. But the good news was that we were able to convert the work to the F35 in an afternoon and then confirm it by borrowing a camera.
 
Just seeing the name "SR-R1" gives me a twitch in the eye...we beta tested a pre-production version on a project back in 2011 and a bunch of footage got corrupted. The Sony engineers managed to salvage some of it but not all. Led to some serious mudslinging from our producer at Sony and I got caught in the middle. So...yeah, that and the KiPro Mini are two boxes I have little nostalgia for.
 
Just seeing the name "SR-R1" gives me a twitch in the eye...we beta tested a pre-production version on a project back in 2011 and a bunch of footage got corrupted. The Sony engineers managed to salvage some of it but not all. Led to some serious mudslinging from our producer at Sony and I got caught in the middle. So...yeah, that and the KiPro Mini are two boxes I have little nostalgia for.

Interesting Charles. What camera did you use with it? F3?
 
I have been using the SR-R1 for some five years now. Never a glitch. Never lost a file. There was even a "water incident" once. Files were still intact. One of the most robust media I have ever used. I have had problems with SxS but not this.
 
Interesting Charles. What camera did you use with it? F3?

Yes, F3.

As I mentioned, this was a pre-release version and obviously they got things sorted out subsequently. It had to do with batteries running down with no indicator to the operator because we had to supply clean video out to the deck, and corruption occurring upon power loss, requiring a file salvage operation that took some time with variable results. This was before hot swap battery mounts had become available. However this got fixed relating to use on the F3 I'm not sure, because I never used the recorder again. This I'm pieceing together from emails from the time as I couldn't remember the specifics offhand. I have no doubt the issues were resolved.

This experience dampened my enthusiasm for using beta gear in a production environment and being an early adopter in general. Too much stress, not enough gain. Being able to crow on social media about being "first film to use [X piece of gear]" isn't worth what we went through, at least for me. Nearly did that with one of those new camera rollout films a couple of years back but my schedule shifted and I had to back out. Later I heard about all the expected issues that were faced on set with the pre-release camera and doubled-down on my stance.
 
I'll let you in on a secret: It was easy to support the F35 on the Odyssey7Q. That's because the weird PSF format was kinda similar to the oddball way the original Canon C500 output 12-bit 444. A bit of a shame we had done all that work at CD to support a camera & format that hardly anyone ever used. But the good news was that we were able to convert the work to the F35 in an afternoon and then confirm it by borrowing a camera.

And we're all mighty grateful for the efforts Mitch!

The Odyssey + F35 allowed me to shoot some super lovely images.
 
Charles what issue did you have with the Ki Pro Mini?

Just seeing the name "SR-R1" gives me a twitch in the eye...we beta tested a pre-production version on a project back in 2011 and a bunch of footage got corrupted. The Sony engineers managed to salvage some of it but not all. Led to some serious mudslinging from our producer at Sony and I got caught in the middle. So...yeah, that and the KiPro Mini are two boxes I have little nostalgia for.
 
I'll let you in on a secret: It was easy to support the F35 on the Odyssey7Q. That's because the weird PSF format was kinda similar to the oddball way the original Canon C500 output 12-bit 444. A bit of a shame we had done all that work at CD to support a camera & format that hardly anyone ever used. But the good news was that we were able to convert the work to the F35 in an afternoon and then confirm it by borrowing a camera.

Hey Mitch, Though I have not recorded any footage on my Odyssey 7q yet from the F35; I would like to express my sincere gratitude for the work you and your team put on this firmware for the Odyssey. We clearly understand you did this for us from the heart, though It may not have brought any significant profit to CD; We do understand you did this for the very few F35 owners here. However small we are, we thank you a lot for bringing us the opportunity to couple these beautiful underrated pieces of hardware. My curiosity with SR-R1 and Codex and what not, is short lived when I watch images created on the Odyssey from the F35, and that's because of you, your team and the person who lent you the F35. Thank you all.
 
Charles what issue did you have with the Ki Pro Mini?

Not long before the SR-R1 debacle, we shot the first season of Key & Peele on F3's and started the show recording out to KiProMini's. On day one they overheated and lost data intermittently. Found out at wrap day one that nearly half the day's work was lost. It's fortunate I didn't get fired off the show right then and there (as might have happened on some shows) but we got through it. Moved to the then-popular method of recording out to XDCAM disk recorders at the DIT station (which believe it or not was how a number of network shows were being shot even on Alexa, before the studios and bond companies got comfortable with flash recording media).

We came back and re-shot missing coverage on this sketch at a different time of day, which has always made it a little rough for me to watch, as hilarious as it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB7MichlL1k

I heard similar stories from others regarding the KiProMini's.
 
Thanks for your feedback Charles. Have you any experience with the Panasonic AG-HPG20 P2 portable? Looking to attach this HD-SDI from my HDC27H. Feel more comfortable this way being Panasonic. Thanks.

Not long before the SR-R1 debacle, we shot the first season of Key & Peele on F3's and started the show recording out to KiProMini's. On day one they overheated and lost data intermittently. Found out at wrap day one that nearly half the day's work was lost. It's fortunate I didn't get fired off the show right then and there (as might have happened on some shows) but we got through it. Moved to the then-popular method of recording out to XDCAM disk recorders at the DIT station (which believe it or not was how a number of network shows were being shot even on Alexa, before the studios and bond companies got comfortable with flash recording media).

We came back and re-shot missing coverage on this sketch at a different time of day, which has always made it a little rough for me to watch, as hilarious as it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB7MichlL1k

I heard similar stories from others regarding the KiProMini's.
 
Thanks for your feedback Charles. Have you any experience with the Panasonic AG-HPG20 P2 portable? Looking to attach this HD-SDI from my HDC27H. Feel more comfortable this way being Panasonic. Thanks.

Have never used that unit, I'm afraid. I gnerally steered clear of outboard recorders after these experiences! The only times I've gone there since have been using my A7, I record out to a Shogun. I will say that whle I'm not too pleased with Atomos' business practices especially when it comes to delivering on promised features in a reasonable fashion, the recorders have been reliable.
 
Hey Mitch, Though I have not recorded any footage on my Odyssey 7q yet from the F35; I would like to express my sincere gratitude for the work you and your team put on this firmware for the Odyssey. We clearly understand you did this for us from the heart, though It may not have brought any significant profit to CD; We do understand you did this for the very few F35 owners here. However small we are, we thank you a lot for bringing us the opportunity to couple these beautiful underrated pieces of hardware. My curiosity with SR-R1 and Codex and what not, is short lived when I watch images created on the Odyssey from the F35, and that's because of you, your team and the person who lent you the F35. Thank you all.

Thanks. It wasn't charity work. Because it was literally a task our chief engineer completed over lunch (!!) I knew if even one additional Odyssey was sold it would be worthwhile. You should have seen the looks of surprise when we had the F35 in the CD booth at NAB a month or so later. There were a lot of guys wearing Sony badges taking photos.
 
Haha The sony badged people were probably thinking: "oh wait how did this company figure out our two cable stream 12bit mambo jambo thinghy?"
 
I was reading last night that I will need a specific firmware on the Odyssey 7q to support the f35. Why? The latest firmware will not cover it? The update Mitch created did not propagate to the latest version? Sorry everyone for asking basic questions, I'm usually pretty good finding info on my own but this F35 girlfriend of mine has my head spinning.
 
Last edited:
What happened was they developed the firmware to support the format of the F35 supporting dpx and 12 bit prores. As time went and they added more features to the Odyssey not related to the F35 they had to make changes that compromised support for the F35, specifically we lost the ability to record prores in certain situations and would be forced to use dpx. As a result the firmware that best supports the F35 is not the latest one.
 
What happened was they developed the firmware to support the format of the F35 supporting dpx and 12 bit prores. As time went and they added more features to the Odyssey not related to the F35 they had to make changes that compromised support for the F35, specifically we lost the ability to record prores in certain situations and would be forced to use dpx. As a result the firmware that best supports the F35 is not the latest one.

Ok awesome thanks. Do you know what that version is?
 
I can't recall the firmware version number, but you can contact Convergent Design to ask. The function went away when dual HD recording was introduced (capture two HD signals in 10-bit 422 simultaneously). It was impossible for the recorder to know the difference between that and the dual-link HD PSF from the F35.
 
Back
Top