Holy crap I am eating my words
- Thread starter Perry Wilson
- Start date
Michael Olsen
Veteran
I'm actually surprised that they haven't taken that down. It's so old and they've made so much sensor progress since then it isn't a very accurate picture of where things stand...
I guess it remains, as you said, because its all there is.
Perry Wilson
Well-known member
My iMac is less powerful than yours!
BTW, in camera debayering has been confirmed on all scarlets.
Full frame realtime debayer to 1080p RGB version of redcode.
That way you can hand over your media to the producer and the people in post cantt f*ck up your look.
Do you shoot red now... and you have no problems with your iMac? Also I dont want the footage debayed to RGB I want to work on it in RAW. I doo like that I have the option though... How would the post CC be in RGB compared to RAW... also do you edit RAW on your iMac? Also this may be a dumb question but what is T/ on comparison to F/ i.e. 100mm T/1.8
Michael Olsen
Veteran
EDIT: I realize I should probably define some things for those who don't follow red religiously.
.R3D is the format REDCODE records to.
REDCINE-X is a program created by RED to manage .R3D files. It incorporates basic NLE features (ability to manage clips/bins and make basic edits), but really focuses on adjusting the basic image as a one light - adjusting ISO, levels, curves, colors, etc. There is really a tremendous amount of versatility here, due to the RAW nature of the footage. It also allows one to debayer the R3D files to something editable in a true NLE like FCP, Avid, or Premiere by exporting to any number of friendly codecs - ProRes HQ (4:4:4), for instance.
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Perry, the way REDCINE-X works is by using Quicktime proxies at 1/1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, and 1/16 resolutions. Your computer doesn't need to be able to play back 4K. It doesn't even need to be able to play back 1080p.
I can do a quick edit and one light on my windows laptop (2.16 Core 2 Duo, 3GB of RAM, nVidia 8400M) from a full M-X .r3d with no problems at all. The debayer/render time, however, is where a server farm would be nice
I highly recommend you download REDCINE-X and some .r3ds and take a look at them on your computers. It'll show you exactly how great editing REDRAW is (especially with the new color science and FLUT implementation). It's free software available for download for Mac or PC.
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Nice to see someone admitting it. ; )
A lot of people said stuff like this and wouldn't listen to reason.
Which is a hell of a lot for most uses and way more than plenty for narrative work. With the 8x having an f/2.4 you will get somewhere under f/4 equivalent on the APS-C which is a hell of a shallow DoF at closest focus and not a bad place to be for your average narrative medium and wide shots. So while Barry is perfectly right, as always, don't be confused and read into his post that you will be anywhere close to 1/3" DoF, which is what people are generally so traumatized with, because the difference will be in order of magnitudes.
Barry, what would be the excact numbers for the f/2.4 to APS-C? I am guessing somewhere around f/3.5 but I am not sure what math you used.
A lot of people said stuff like this and wouldn't listen to reason.
Which is a hell of a lot for most uses and way more than plenty for narrative work. With the 8x having an f/2.4 you will get somewhere under f/4 equivalent on the APS-C which is a hell of a shallow DoF at closest focus and not a bad place to be for your average narrative medium and wide shots. So while Barry is perfectly right, as always, don't be confused and read into his post that you will be anywhere close to 1/3" DoF, which is what people are generally so traumatized with, because the difference will be in order of magnitudes.
Barry, what would be the excact numbers for the f/2.4 to APS-C? I am guessing somewhere around f/3.5 but I am not sure what math you used.
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Michael Olsen
Veteran
Not to be daft, but who's admitting what?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Exact would be about f/6.0. A 2/3" sensor needs to stop down 2.75 stops to match the DOF of an APs-C 35mm-sized sensor.
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J Davis
Veteran
You beat me to it!
And the number of times I'm shooting an mcu or cu on an actor at an f stop larger than f5.6 on aps-c?
zero - because someone moves a few inches and suddenly they are out of focus
There is nothing wrong with 2/3 dof, in many cases its preferable
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Perry Wilson
Well-known member
EDIT: I realize I should probably define some things for those who don't follow red religiously.
.R3D is the format REDCODE records to.
REDCINE-X is a program created by RED to manage .R3D files. It incorporates basic NLE features (ability to manage clips/bins and make basic edits), but really focuses on adjusting the basic image as a one light - adjusting ISO, levels, curves, colors, etc. There is really a tremendous amount of versatility here, due to the RAW nature of the footage. It also allows one to debayer the R3D files to something editable in a true NLE like FCP, Avid, or Premiere by exporting to any number of friendly codecs - ProRes HQ (4:4:4), for instance.
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Perry, the way REDCINE-X works is by using Quicktime proxies at 1/1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, and 1/16 resolutions. Your computer doesn't need to be able to play back 4K. It doesn't even need to be able to play back 1080p.
I can do a quick edit and one light on my windows laptop (2.16 Core 2 Duo, 3GB of RAM, nVidia 8400M) from a full M-X .r3d with no problems at all. The debayer/render time, however, is where a server farm would be nice
I highly recommend you download REDCINE-X and some .r3ds and take a look at them on your computers. It'll show you exactly how great editing REDRAW is (especially with the new color science and FLUT implementation). It's free software available for download for Mac or PC.
Yeah I have worked in RedCine-X and have fell in love with the RAW aspect of it I love it, it is no dif than Camera RAW editing that I do every day with my photos, except they are moving pictures... I have a problem finding people willing to post up and .r3d files do you know any good links to where I can find some good footage to play with in the mean time... also it seems that they keep coming up with a new build every week today was the Pre-Release to build 104.. now are these standalone REDCINE-X ( download build 104 and I have the newest REDCINE) otr are these patches that are plugged into and original REDCINE-X program( I need to download the original REDCINE-X, then build 104?)
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Michael Olsen
Veteran
I believe REDCINE-X is currently in the beta phase. You should only need to download the 104 build.
The r3ds I got are no longer available, unfortunately...perhaps someone else might have some ideas.
J Davis
Veteran
raw files from red's new mx sensor available for download here :thumbsup:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40943
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Perry Wilson
Well-known member
lol thanks Davis I actually just found this about 30 mins ago and started downloading...
Ted Ramasola
Veteran
Michael Olsen
Veteran
Love how DSLRs have totally killed the concept of the 2.8-4 split for many.
Below is a shot on APS-C at 1.3' with a 28mm set to f/6.3. I marked 4:3, 16:9 and 2.4:1.
There is however very good use for shallow DoF in wides and medium two shots. Think of a culminating dramatic dialogue scene. The look of f/2.8 or whatever you can block for and your AC can handle could be very welcome given it fits the style of the project. I don't think you can get that unless you have lots of room to back up and use a very long focal length. However there is nothing keeping you from telling a story with a cell phone camera, and there is nothing keeping you from making your project "look like a film" with proper use of a 2/3" system. Talented people have managed to do/convey that with 1/3" sensors before.
There is however very good use for shallow DoF in wides and medium two shots. Think of a culminating dramatic dialogue scene. The look of f/2.8 or whatever you can block for and your AC can handle could be very welcome given it fits the style of the project. I don't think you can get that unless you have lots of room to back up and use a very long focal length. However there is nothing keeping you from telling a story with a cell phone camera, and there is nothing keeping you from making your project "look like a film" with proper use of a 2/3" system. Talented people have managed to do/convey that with 1/3" sensors before.
Attachments
J Davis
Veteran
works for a phone but watch out for enlarged noses and ears if you ever try this with an actor
go on, put your girlfriend in front of a 28mm at 1.3' she won't look so hot
PJ does this in LOTR but hey ... he wants the actors with to have big noses and look like dwarves and hobbits
edit: just f*ckin wit ya Roberto, I know ur one of the good guys
rogar-BigGrin(DBG)
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With 2/3" you'll be forced to back up a lot anyway. I should crop that shot though to give an idea of it's actual use... it is basically useless with the full FOV of the APS-C.
Backing up means focusing further away, which means deeper DoF. I'll try to post a more relevant still.
Backing up means focusing further away, which means deeper DoF. I'll try to post a more relevant still.
J Davis
Veteran
Sorry, now there I must strongly disagree with you Roberto. You don't need to back up with a 2/3 any more than you need to with a 7D. You can get all the same fov's and all the same focal lengths. The only difference is dof, and in most situations the range of dof that is missing (the ultra shallow stuff) you never use anyway when shooting actors.