I recently purchased a Panasonic HMC150 and have shot some footage with it but haven't as yet burned any of the footage to disc yet but am in the process of doing that now. I shot the footage in the 720/60p mode like everyone's saying to do with this cam. I also own the HMC40 which I've had since Dec. of '09. I have been very happy with the video that the 40 produces but wanted to get the 150 because I've heard so much about it. I am not so sure now though, judgeing from what I've read. Turns out that the 40 produces better images(sharper) than the 150, according to what everyone is saying about it. I'm just curious how many of you out there also own the HMC40 and possibly the 150 as well and can tell me your take on how you feel about the quality of both cams and which you prefer and why.
HMC40 vs HMC150
- Thread starter 1pany2u
- Start date
I can't tell you much about the 150, but I do own a 40 and an HPX170 and use the 40 as a B-Cam and a walkabout. I really like the 40; it is the ultimate guerilla cam. It has just enough manual control to be a real cam, and given enough light, produces great images. It is so much easier to pack around for small work than a 150-170 sized rig. The jello issue is a non-issue for me.
For me, the only thing to really dislike about the 40, is the sucky viewfinder. The flipout is OK, not great.
Regards,
Grant
For me, the only thing to really dislike about the 40, is the sucky viewfinder. The flipout is OK, not great.
Regards,
Grant
Mike Harvey
Veteran
Sharper ≠ Better.
The 150 has better low light capabilities, and isn't subject to potential "jell-O" effects from the rolling shutter (though I think in general rolling shutter issues tend to be overblown). Plus it has more features that are important to me like built in XLR sockets.
I bought my 150 before the 40 came out and have never used the 40... but if I had to do it again I'd still get the 150. The 40 is by all accounts a great little cam, but it doesn't do what I need it to do, and the 150 does. Plus, while not as sharp, the 150 is still plenty sharp enough. And sharpness isn't the only factor of image quality
Ultimately, Matt S. is right... the one that works best for you is the one that's right. That isn't going to be the same for everyone. For me though it's the 150.
The 150 has better low light capabilities, and isn't subject to potential "jell-O" effects from the rolling shutter (though I think in general rolling shutter issues tend to be overblown). Plus it has more features that are important to me like built in XLR sockets.
I bought my 150 before the 40 came out and have never used the 40... but if I had to do it again I'd still get the 150. The 40 is by all accounts a great little cam, but it doesn't do what I need it to do, and the 150 does. Plus, while not as sharp, the 150 is still plenty sharp enough. And sharpness isn't the only factor of image quality
Ultimately, Matt S. is right... the one that works best for you is the one that's right. That isn't going to be the same for everyone. For me though it's the 150.
Ken Steadman
Well-known member
For what it's worth I think the HMC looks much better in 1080 than 720.
Thanks all for your input. Ken, you said that you prefer the 1080 setting as opposed to the 720 setting...which 1080 setting do you mean...1080i or 1080p?
HighDriver
Active member
I bought a HMC40 as a second cam to our 150. Used it for one event and then sold it to buy another HMC150. The video quality is just fine on the HMC40, if you have plenty of light. We were shooting in an old church and the HMC40 image was ever so slightly noisier than the HMC150. Dropping it down to DVD quality, you'll probably never see the difference, so don't let that sway you.
The real issue for us was the differences in the user interface. My wife is the second shooter and she often needs input from me for technical help. She is very creative, but not so technical. The different buttons and on-screen menus, makes just enough confision to make my life more difficult than it needs to be.
As for preferences, each cam has strong points and it is pretty easy to prefer one over the other in a given situation, but certainly not for all situations. We started our business with DVC-30s which is the physical platform the HMC40 developed from. The DVC-30s worked very well, and for the investment, produced some fine video. One negative is that some clients think the camera has to "look professional", and the DVC30 and the HMC40 don't always give that impression to the average client. I also think that mounting your extra goodies (wireless receivers, external monitors, lights, etc.) on the DVC30/HMC40 handle makes the rig top heavy, more so than the HMC150.
Since the vast majority of our current work ends up getting output the DVD, we have been shooting in 720/60p. The down conversion to DVD or to web seems to look better and especially if you have fast motion such as dancing or sports. Since the bit rate remains constant, the 720/60p retains more information then the 1080 resolutions making the codec more forgiving with fast motion subjects.
In the end, you have to choose what suits YOU.
The real issue for us was the differences in the user interface. My wife is the second shooter and she often needs input from me for technical help. She is very creative, but not so technical. The different buttons and on-screen menus, makes just enough confision to make my life more difficult than it needs to be.
As for preferences, each cam has strong points and it is pretty easy to prefer one over the other in a given situation, but certainly not for all situations. We started our business with DVC-30s which is the physical platform the HMC40 developed from. The DVC-30s worked very well, and for the investment, produced some fine video. One negative is that some clients think the camera has to "look professional", and the DVC30 and the HMC40 don't always give that impression to the average client. I also think that mounting your extra goodies (wireless receivers, external monitors, lights, etc.) on the DVC30/HMC40 handle makes the rig top heavy, more so than the HMC150.
Since the vast majority of our current work ends up getting output the DVD, we have been shooting in 720/60p. The down conversion to DVD or to web seems to look better and especially if you have fast motion such as dancing or sports. Since the bit rate remains constant, the 720/60p retains more information then the 1080 resolutions making the codec more forgiving with fast motion subjects.
In the end, you have to choose what suits YOU.
...I have been told that the HMC40 suffers from the same problem I have with the Panasonic TM700/HS700, which is that once you engage any GAIN with these cameras, you cannot obtain one F-Stop while using the entire range of the zoom.
Where with my HMC150, I can set the GAIN to +6 dB and the IRIS to F 4.0, and maintain F 4.0 throughout the entire zoom range.
With the TM700/HS700 the GAIN will only engage once the IRIS is at full OPEN, and then when using the entire range of the zoom the F-STOP will change quite a bit, making the zoom shot useless for me. ( I don't know why Panasonic can't make the GAIN completely independent of the IRIS setting on these cameras )
Does the HMC40 behave in the same manner as the TM700/HS700 ?
This alone would stop me from buying a HMC40. ( I would spend the extra money to buy the HMC150 instead )
Where with my HMC150, I can set the GAIN to +6 dB and the IRIS to F 4.0, and maintain F 4.0 throughout the entire zoom range.
With the TM700/HS700 the GAIN will only engage once the IRIS is at full OPEN, and then when using the entire range of the zoom the F-STOP will change quite a bit, making the zoom shot useless for me. ( I don't know why Panasonic can't make the GAIN completely independent of the IRIS setting on these cameras )
Does the HMC40 behave in the same manner as the TM700/HS700 ?
This alone would stop me from buying a HMC40. ( I would spend the extra money to buy the HMC150 instead )
Barry has a post somewhere where he stated he now prefers 1080P over 720P for the HMC150.
I actually turn detail DOWN -3 (and coring +3) for more of a film look so sharpness is not an issue for me.
Bigger lens, better lowlight and better controls.
BTW, I too tried the tm700 and found certain shots to look odd. Rain covered stones looked plastic with detail at 0. Turn it down and wide distance shots looked muddy.
The reason the tm700 and HMC40 do not allow you to change iris when ggain is on is that the iris really stays the same for several "f-stops" as it really is changing nd filters instead. There is a more detailed post on the forum by Barry Green about this.
I actually turn detail DOWN -3 (and coring +3) for more of a film look so sharpness is not an issue for me.
Bigger lens, better lowlight and better controls.
BTW, I too tried the tm700 and found certain shots to look odd. Rain covered stones looked plastic with detail at 0. Turn it down and wide distance shots looked muddy.
The reason the tm700 and HMC40 do not allow you to change iris when ggain is on is that the iris really stays the same for several "f-stops" as it really is changing nd filters instead. There is a more detailed post on the forum by Barry Green about this.
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Barry_Green
Moderator
The HMC40's gain works tied to the iris; there's no gain until the iris is fully open. With the HMC150 it's not that way, the HMC150 can have gain at any iris. So it sounds like the HS700's gain is the same as the HMC40's.
That's what my testing showed.
No gain is added until iris is wide open with the TM700K.
Which means that you cannot obtain one F-Stop when using the full zoom range if the GAIN is active.
I was kind of shocked when I discovered this within the first 10 minutes of using a brand new HS700.
For example:
I set the correct exposure ( Wide-Open + 9 dB GAIN ) at full zoom in, then slowly zoomed out to a full wide shot and found that my shot was now more than 1 stop over-exposed.
GAIN is fine with these cameras as long as you don't use much of the zoom in one continuous shot.
Barry_Green
Moderator
You are correct, that is something you can't do, if you have gain active.
Well technically you are at the same fstop as far as iris size for a range of f-stop numbers up to and including hitting open gain as there is a ND wheel that changes.
So really you are at wide open even when you are down "a few stops". I'm not to elegant at explaining this. lol
So really you are at wide open even when you are down "a few stops". I'm not to elegant at explaining this. lol
Barry_Green
Moderator
No, that isn't how it works. The ND filter doesn't come into play until about f/2.8, IIRC. So the iris opens and closes normally up until f/2.8. Then the iris freezes and the ND filter comes into play, until about f/6.8, at which point the ND filter is fully engaged and the iris starts closing down again.
So if you go to the full telephoto setting at f/2.8, there's no ND filter. You can then "open up" some more and there'll be gain added. And if you zoom out, the iris will open up to maximum as you zoom out, and the gain will stay the same, so the image does indeed get brighter as you zoom out.
The only way to lock the iris and have constant exposure across the zoom range, is to not push the iris into gain. If you stay at f/3.0 at full telephoto, you can zoom out and still be at f/3.0 throughout the zoom. But if you set the iris one notch more open than 3.0 at full tele, it'll go to OPEN. OPEN means that it'll be the most open that it can be regardless of the zoom setting, so if you zoom out to full wide angle, the iris will now be 1.8.
So if you go to the full telephoto setting at f/2.8, there's no ND filter. You can then "open up" some more and there'll be gain added. And if you zoom out, the iris will open up to maximum as you zoom out, and the gain will stay the same, so the image does indeed get brighter as you zoom out.
The only way to lock the iris and have constant exposure across the zoom range, is to not push the iris into gain. If you stay at f/3.0 at full telephoto, you can zoom out and still be at f/3.0 throughout the zoom. But if you set the iris one notch more open than 3.0 at full tele, it'll go to OPEN. OPEN means that it'll be the most open that it can be regardless of the zoom setting, so if you zoom out to full wide angle, the iris will now be 1.8.