HMC40 - First Look

accelv said:
So, if conversion is an issue I should disregard the 150 as well?
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No, if conversion is an issue, you should avoid FCP. FCP requires every tapeless camera's format to be converted. The only ones that are an exception are a couple of JVC models, but any AVCHD or XDCAM or HDV camera is going to require file conversion before FCP can use it.


How would it work with AVCHD footage? Thanks!
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You could do it the same way, or (if using an HMC150 or HMC40 or HPX170) you can actually have it do a window-burn of the time/date right as you're recording the footage, and that way you don't have to recapture anything.
 
As a codec, yes, but it still requires a conversion to quicktime. FCP requires a conversion of every tapeless camera's footage, except for the aforementioned two JVC models.
 
Has anyone done a good side by side comparison of the HMC40 and EX1?

How close can the HMC40 (res and overall image quality) get to the EX1, with sufficient lighting?

Could the footage from these two cams cut together real well (in good shooting conditions)?
 
New HF-S models from Canon can shoot native 1080p24 and support LANC and have 3.5-inch 900Kpixel LCD screen. One less reason to buy the HMC40. One more reason for Panasonic to up the ante in the departments of the LCD/EVF quality and sensor size.

I wonder will Canon come up with something like the HMC40 using the components it already has on consumer models?
 
Cranky, please -- the HMC40 is aimed at professionals. The HF-S is aimed at consumers. They're not in the same market, and someone in the market for a pro camera is not going to buy an HF-S.
 
Barry_Green said:
Cranky, please -- the HMC40 is aimed at professionals. The HF-S is aimed at consumers. They're not in the same market, and someone in the market for a pro camera is not going to buy an HF-S.
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Lots of people use or used the HV20/30/40 or the HF-S for professional production with great success, intercutting it with the EX no less. Yes, small cams are clumsy to use, but in a locked-off situation a consumer camera can work no worse than a professional one. Read Adam Wilt's article about the HF11, which he favorably compares to the EX, at least in interlaced mode. Progressive mode is ruined by interlaced chroma, but the new HF-S have native 24p, so this issue finally has been fixed (not sure about 30p).

A large high-resolution LCD is a serious aid for both amateurs and professionals, facilitating manual focusing, so I really don't see how a good LCD could possibly hurt the 40 or the 150. My V1 has a large LCD, but it is relatively low-res, and color peaking that I hoped for does not help much. I changed my mind completely, I am not advocating focusing aids anymore, all I want is a high-res screen to judge focusing simply by looking at the picture.

Compared to the TM300 which it is based on, the HMC40 has 720p, native 1080p, 24 Mbit/s mode, larger focus wheel, built-in ND filter, some image control menu items and an optional XLR block. Interestingly, I see messages how people who bought the HMC40 are unsatisfied with it, primarily with low light, and replace it with the HMC150.

Now the HF-S21 will have native 1080p24, 24 Mbit/s mode, built-in ND filter as all Canon consumer camcorders starting from the HV20 have, a larger sensor (potentially shallower DOF with comparable sensitivity), LANC compatibility (a cheap LANC remote costs $25, how much does a Panasonic remote cost?). It will have an EVF, a large hi-res LCD screen, 64GB internal memory (who would care about that?), dual SDHC slots with relay capability, built-in standard def downconversion (not sure what format is it, but no Pana AVCHD cameras have it). All for $1.4K MSRP, but I am sure it will drop to $1K and below in no time.

Say one is choosing between the TM300, HMC40 and HMC150. The 40 is the happy middle ground feature- and price-wise. Now there is another camcorder that has many features the HMC40 has, and it costs about the same as the TM300. what a potential customer will do?

I am not bashing the HMC40, I looked forward to buying it, but I think it can and must be improved, especially in light of upcoming Canon models. Canon will be mad for not releasing a rival to the HMC40 based on the HF-S hardware. I hope it will announce such a model no later than at upcoming NAB. Canon needs to offer a tapeless replacement/cousin for the A1/G1, and to offer a hi-def replacement to the GL2, similarly like the HMC40 is a replacement for the DVC30. So I see two spots that beg to be filled, and I hope to see at least one prosumer/pro tapeless camera from Canon really soon.
 
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Robert M Wright said:
Has anyone done a good side by side comparison of the HMC40 and EX1?

How close can the HMC40 (res and overall image quality) get to the EX1, with sufficient lighting?

Could the footage from these two cams cut together real well (in good shooting conditions)?
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Look on the first page of this thread. In theory they could be cut together, but as you noted the EX1 is better in low light due to the larger sensor.

At the same time the sensor is twice as big affecting the glass needed for it, which will immensely change the DOF.

The small aperture diffraction will also be different causing loss of focus soon in the HMC40. I actually think the look of the HF S100 images will be closer to the EX1, in part due to 1/2.6" sensor.

You'd have to test everything at the same time to be accurate, but Barry's first resolution charts of the HMC40 looked to be around 800~850 lines. The HMC150 was about 675. The EX1 was supposedly tested at over 1000 lines of resolution.
 
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Barry_Green said:
Cranky, please -- the HMC40 is aimed at professionals. The HF-S is aimed at consumers. They're not in the same market, and someone in the market for a pro camera is not going to buy an HF-S.
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basing on the features and comparing hfs200, it seems pretty good for its price, isnt it? its 1000 msrp (which can go even lower mid 2010)

of course like the hmc40, you pay less for less professional feature.
 
I'd be considerably more interested in an HF-S(whatever), if it were capable of 720p60 (by far my preferred format to shoot most often). It sure wouldn't be a replacement for the HMC40, but I really do like having a little consumer camera that size - very easy and convenient to grab on the way out the door in a hurry.
 
Barry_Green said:
Which is just plain comical, because Sony has also said that they consider 9 megabits of AVCHD to be a match for 25 megabits of MPEG-2. So they acknowledge the codec is much better, but they won't let professionals use it... that's just... schizophrenic or something...
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Well, there's AVC and there's AVC.

In theory, a full blown best-in-class compression should put AVC at better than twice the coding efficiency of MPEG-2. So if you're doing 1440x1080/60i at 25Mb/s, you should be just as happy with AVC at 12.5Mb/s.

One issue is simple: everyone's used to 25Mb/s or so, so if the camera's not close, some jokers out there are going to complain. Second thing... we're always happy to have more quality, particularly if we have the option to dial it down if necessary, as you would on any tapeless camera. Then, of course, we're recording 1920x1080, not 1440x1080, so add some bits in there.

And then there's the whole "doing this in realtime on a camcorder" issue. If you had the misfortune to play around with AVC based camcorders from a year or two ago, it was painfully clear that this has been a work in progress. I had an Hitachi Blu-Ray camcorder for awhile, and its AVC was not up to MPEG-2/HDV quality. It was pretty much only last year that AVC-based camcorderd did generally better video than HDV models.

And it's happening fast... I have this a stupid little Sanyo Xacti FH1 as my "pocket" camcorder. This one's not quite a match to a pro model on fast motion, but it also beats my old HVR-A1 on low-light performance, and it can shoot at 1080/60p... something pretty much 2010 for most folks (I think the TM700 does this, too, now).
 
After Sony announced NXCAM, the discussion about absence of AVCHD in pro Sony cams is not relevant anymore.
 
HVX vs. HMC30

HVX vs. HMC30

Maybe this has been covered in the 38+ pages of this thread someplace, but how does the image of the HMC40 compare to the HVX200?

I own a DVX100 and HVX200, but hate the pricing of the P2 cards. Can the HMC replace the HVX200, or is the picture quality going to be less?
 
The HMC40's image is sharper than the HVX200's, with a smoother texture -- UNLESS you go into low light conditions. Then the HMC40 can't compare.

The HMC40 isn't the one to be looking to replace an HVX with anyway -- if you want an HVX that records onto cheap memory cards, what you really should be looking at is the HMC150.
 
Does the HMC150 have the same lens mount size as the DVX200? Can I mount my Letus35 on it?
 
i am coming in late here..but a question.. i sold my canon xha1, hdv footage converted to cineform neoscene int. codec and edited with vegas 9. the almost 5 pounds of weight backpacking this thing in with my nikon system about kills this old guy.

will the panasonic be able to match the quality? or exceed it? or something new coming out NAB this month? i was going to go to a dslr until i read all the aliasing artifact issues with movement and fine detail. i am a landscape and wildlife videographer. thanks in advance..most of my footage is sea scapes, pacific coastal wildlife fromwhales to sea otters...and believe me hdv tape has been too great of a drawback..with dropouts if not kept immaculate. bill
 
william boehm said:
will the panasonic be able to match the quality [of the XH A1]? or exceed it?
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To match/exceed the XH A1 you want the HMC150. The HMC40 will be sharper in bright light, but worse in low light (2 to 3 stops slower) plus usual CMOS fare.

The HMC150, being a larger of the two Panasonics, is still lighter, more compact and more sturdy than the XH A1. Last year B&H offered coupons at NAB, effectively selling the HMC150 for $3,100. You may want to come down to LA to see what's what.
 
William,

For a light field cam, the HMC is hard to beat. The IQ is excellent. If you are in daylight, the low light sensitivity is a non-issue. Although not a fully featured production cam, the HMC has the Panny mojo. You would love it for packing since it is not only light, but physically small too.

Grant
 
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