HMC150: Would you do it again?

G

ggrantly

Veteran
Hello listers,

I've been twisting in a stiff breeze about a camera upgrades, and much of it has come down to the memory format issue.

P2 = Very reliable, but pricey.
SD = Reliability, not so much, but much more affordable.

If you have purchased a HMC150 or 40 cam, do you trust the SD memory format enough to do it again? Are the issues with memory mostly operator error (formatting Issues), or is SD media a risky proposition I've read most of the archives and there doesn't seem to be a clear consensus, but there has been enough postings to make me nervous.

I'll go with a P2 camera if I feel the need, but I think the 150 has all the features I need.

So do you have confidence in SD recording?

Best Regards,
Grant
 
I've been shooting on an HMC150 and have had not one problem. I also have a D90 and have never had a problem with that either.

Personally, I think a lot of the problems stem from people buying cheap SD cards. I use Sandisk Extreme III's. Not one problem yet. I did get a Panasonic SD card as a rebate, but have yet to use it.

I always format the cards IN the camera.

My 2-cents.
 
One other factor is AVCHD versus DVCProHD.

Might want to factor that into your decision. Acquisition media reliability is one issue and acquisition codec and color space and intraframe versus interframe is another
 
I feel safe with SDHC media, a lot safer than my tape days. Would i do it again? i think so, but always looking at the new cameras coming out =)

many of the problems reported are user error, or cheap media problems... I know some people have problems with name brand cards as well, But i think the percentage is smaller. I also started using Sandisk Extreme III's cards and so far love them!
 
David,

Yes, I have considered codec also. But the footage from the AVCHD format cameras is certainly very good. By the way, Hello from Bellingham.

Grant
 
Greetings Grant from a Lynden native.

Yes, I would definitely buy it again. P2 is more or less bullet proof, so it's hard for most media formats... regardless of how good they are... to stack up. I have 8 SDHC cards and none of them have had issues, and I use them almost weekly.

There definite advantages to P2, but for me those advantages weren't worth the money. I don't think SDHC cards are somehow inherently unreliable, but as with all things, every once and a while a bum batch gets made and shipped out. It happens.
 
I've been using two HMC150s for over a year now with no problems. I think that many of the reported SD card problems are, if not quite "user error", definitely attributable to users not taking precautions to guard against problems. There are two primary things that I would say account for almost all problems:

1) The write-protect switch: it may be in an indeterminate state
2) Computers corrupting the card data

Case 1 is solved by firmly switching the write-protect switch before use. Case 2 is solved by always write-protecting cards when stickin' 'em in a computer (same for P2!).

I've used these practices from day 1, and have never had a problem. I should say I always test cards when I get them (fill 'em up with data a few times). One or two of the 25 cards I've bought have failed this testing. No card that's passed the testing has later failed.

That said... I still use an HVX as my primary camera, for a number of reasons (mainly audio and FCP-related codec issues), but in small part because P2 feels like the ultimate in reliability.

But... I would definitely buy an HMC150 again, especially given media cost. I've invested a lot in P2 over the years, so can continue with that (and don't need to do field-downloads)... but I'd feel safe having enough SD cards to avoid field downloading with an HMC than trusting HDs and field downloads of a small amount of P2 media...
 
Thanks Mike,

Being from Lynden, you must know how to run a lawn mower! Said with a knowing smile <8-)

Regarding the cards: You just rarely hear anything about a P2 card failure. There has been a whole spate if complaints about sd cards. Maybe that is why P2 is a much more expensive format. I'm guessing half of the problems I've read about in the archives have been from people not formatting the card in the cam.

The other half....go figure. The legitimate failures seem to encompass a cross sample of brand, class, and size, so I don't see a trend. I wish there was better info about what is happening here. Maybe the whole thing is a red herring when you get past the formatting issue and the problems are just random failures which have gotten a lot of attention.

Grant
 
I would do it again.

My first SD card that I used and still use to this day is an old 16 gig Sandisk that used in my laptops long before I got the 150.
Mutiple formats drag and drop and deleted files and I never had one problem.
I have other cards too and none have crapped out on me yet.

I always keep an open mind about equipment and for the money and the quailty I still think this [150] is still the best overall.
 
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Ullanta,

The last line of your last post is an important point. With P2, you can end up needing to field transfer, unless you have a huge P2 investment. With SD, you can afford more memory and not field transfer.

Grant
 
ggrantly said:
Ullanta,
The last line of your last post is an important point. With P2, you can end up needing to field transfer, unless you have a huge P2 investment. With SD, you can afford more memory and not field transfer.
Click to expand...

Right... and not just field transfers; it lets you schedule "home" transfers more conveniently, for example, I sometimes record shows that run 8 hours a day for four days straight, with hours of setup and teardown each day, and a long drive home. I have enough SDHC cards to cover the whole shebang without having to spend the time to transfer and back everything up each night... but still can't do that with P2.

It's also comforting that SDHC cards are pretty widely available in a pinch; and need no special drivers or interfaces if you need to work on a different machine in a pinch.

And, for the type of gigs I work on, the more efficient storage needs of AVCHD footage makes a big difference... sadly, because of the number of people involved (and their "scattering" once a show is over), I tend to need to store original materials for months if not years...
 
David S. said:
One other factor is AVCHD versus DVCProHD. Might want to factor that into your decision. Acquisition media reliability is one issue and acquisition codec and color space and intraframe versus interframe is another
Click to expand...
My Class 6 cards upload to my computer at about 1GB/min, this is 8Gb/min or 133Mb/s, which is almost 3 times faster than their official rating, and is enough for DVCPRO HD or AVC-Intra @ 100 Mb/s. Class 10 cards officially support 80 Mb/s, which is enough for AVC-Intra @ 50 Mbit/s. Will we see these formats on SDHC instead of P2? Panasonic has to defend both its recording formats and media, maybe it makes sense to give up P2 media to keep the foothold in recording formats? I mean, not to give up completely, but to release an "advanced consumer" version with cheaper media. I hope that the HMC160 or whatever it will be called will record in more advanced formats than AVCHD (along with AVCHD).
 
I have been shooting with the HMC150 for a year now and have never had a problem with the SDHC cards. I mainly use OCZ Gold which have a 150x write speed. I also have some Delkin Devices and Panasonic cards which are 150x as well. SDHC cards have been much more reliable than tape and the AVCHD format is better than what I was using, HDV for my line of work.

Since I primarily shoot weddings and will come back with 4-8 hours of footage, P2 cards are not cost effective for me, especially when I have multiple crews. Since I re use the SDHC cards, they are actually more cost effective than when I was shooting with tape on HDV cameras.
 
this thread is comforting in light of all these card failure reportings. I was considering giving the 150 up as an option but Justyn reassured me with proper management these carrd failures can be extremely reduced to non existent.
 
i've been shooting on SD cards for almost 5 years now and have never ever had a problem....ever.

they are more reliable than tape or harddrive.

i think most of the reported errors are user error.....taking the card out without shutting down or before a save/write was finished.

P2 probably has a better record because it's users handle things better and possibly also because Panny uses good SD cards inside. although i've used some very cheap SD cards, and still do, i've never had problems with even very cheap memory. (my fave is Transcend, best price and super reliable)
 
averan, I think making a blanket statement like that is very obtuse. It has more to do with card brand than user error.

That aside, Yes, I would buy an HMC150 again. My OCZ cards have been great. Adata lasted 10 days.
 
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I have been shooting on 3 different HMC-150s starting in September 2008 and have never had a problem.

Transcend 8 & 16 GB cards purchased in 2008.

Ritek 8 GB card purchased in 2008

Sandisk Extreme III 8GB & Sandisk "Video" cards in 8 & 16 GB.
 
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