HMC150 vs 5D footage anywhere
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Barry_Green
Moderator
I don't have access to a 5D, so I can't run that test for you, but I'm certain that your suspicions are correct. I know the 170/150 have more dynamic range than the 7D, and DP Review tested the 7D at 8.3 stops and the 5D at a maximum of 8.6. If you can find a Stouffer of the 5D, I can supply one from the HMC150.
Thomas Lew
Well-known member
What's dynamic range mean exactly?
:bath:
:bath:
studio1972
Well-known member
The range of brightness the camera can record (darkest black to brightest white).
....without blowing the highlights and crushing the blacks. It's the 'useable' part of the captured range.
Thomas Lew
Well-known member
Nice that makes sense. Thanks
:bath:
:bath:
I shot a video a while ago with both the HMC (Letus Extreme) and A 5DMKII .
The differences are vast.
5D footage was substantially less noisy, way sharper and had better color (in my taste).
These cameras are in 2 very different leagues in terms of video footage alone.
To be fair, this isn't a very fair comparison. The adapter alone will add noise to the HMC-150. And, a LOT is dependent on the quality/type of lenses you used.
Not knocking the 5D, but in that situation it's not even a fair fight.
I have two videos, a dance performance, and an interview, with 5D Mark II and HMC150 angles cut between. The 5D is much much sharper, so you'll have no problem figuring out which angle is which camera. For both videos, I didn't man the HMC150, so I do not know the WB, guessing 3.2K for both videos, but not sure. Also it was probably set to Cine-D or Cine-V.
Both videos have footage raw out of the camera, no color correction done.
For the interview below, the youtube 720p 2Mbit version, the HMC150 angle is made to black/white, because I couldn't color match them. I've put a URL for the higher quality 3Mbit version MP4, where it the original raw HMC150 angle (no black/white), you can download it at 224MB.
Results - still unscientific (I'm not Adam Wilt, Barry Green, or Stu Maschwitz, or Rich Harrington, who is releasing a big camera shootout late this year early next year)
Both videos have footage raw out of the camera, no color correction done.
Dance performance
5D Mark II - WB Set to Incandescent, Picture Style = Standard
HMC150 - 30P, WB Set to 3.2K or 3200K [unsure/can't remember], Scene File set to either Cine-D or Cine-V, unsure/can't remember]
1a) Yamulee performance 720p (67MB on youtube, 2MBit)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5FoFdt8IoY&fmt=22
1b) Original 3MBit version for (99MB) youtube - right click, save-as
http://www.nuevotec.com/media/yamulee-perf-vieja2009-720p-hd.mp4
Interview
5D Mark II - WB Set to Incandescent, Picture Style = Standard (this is out of box +3 sharpness, contrasty, etc.)
HMC150 - 30P, WB Set to 3.2K or 3200K [unsure/can't remember], Scene File set to either Cine-D or Cine-V, unsure/can't remember]
2a) Seaon interview 720p (112MB on youtube, 2Mbit) - HMC150 is in black/white
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd_bp3dVF8k&fmt=22
2b) Original 3Mbit version for youtube (224MB) - right click, save-as / HMC150 is raw color from camera
http://www.nuevotec.com/mambo/media/seaon-int-ny2009-hd-rawcolor.mp4
Both videos have footage raw out of the camera, no color correction done.
For the interview below, the youtube 720p 2Mbit version, the HMC150 angle is made to black/white, because I couldn't color match them. I've put a URL for the higher quality 3Mbit version MP4, where it the original raw HMC150 angle (no black/white), you can download it at 224MB.
Results - still unscientific (I'm not Adam Wilt, Barry Green, or Stu Maschwitz, or Rich Harrington, who is releasing a big camera shootout late this year early next year)
Both videos have footage raw out of the camera, no color correction done.
Dance performance
5D Mark II - WB Set to Incandescent, Picture Style = Standard
HMC150 - 30P, WB Set to 3.2K or 3200K [unsure/can't remember], Scene File set to either Cine-D or Cine-V, unsure/can't remember]
1a) Yamulee performance 720p (67MB on youtube, 2MBit)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5FoFdt8IoY&fmt=22
1b) Original 3MBit version for (99MB) youtube - right click, save-as
http://www.nuevotec.com/media/yamulee-perf-vieja2009-720p-hd.mp4
Interview
5D Mark II - WB Set to Incandescent, Picture Style = Standard (this is out of box +3 sharpness, contrasty, etc.)
HMC150 - 30P, WB Set to 3.2K or 3200K [unsure/can't remember], Scene File set to either Cine-D or Cine-V, unsure/can't remember]
2a) Seaon interview 720p (112MB on youtube, 2Mbit) - HMC150 is in black/white
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd_bp3dVF8k&fmt=22
2b) Original 3Mbit version for youtube (224MB) - right click, save-as / HMC150 is raw color from camera
http://www.nuevotec.com/mambo/media/seaon-int-ny2009-hd-rawcolor.mp4
JoeJITSU
Veteran
Well in Lowlight situations the 5DM2 for the win.
JimNastics
Active member
It wouldn't take much tweaking to get that HMC150 looking a lot better... you only need to look around vimeo or the like to see what it can do. Has your shooting buddy played with the scene file settings? In terms of sharpness and detail, you can improve that a hell of a lot. The only thing you're not going to get is that nice DOF on the 5D. That 5D footage does look great though... just don't think "much, much sharper" is a particularly fair comparison.
I've been taking lots of HMC151 vs GH1 vs 7D vs 5D footage over the last few days. The problem with posting stuff is you just get flamed by the arm chair observers for not doing it how 'they' would have done it.... and how the test is not valid for this reason and that reason, often because it doesn't show 'their' toy as being the best. So, I'm not going to go there.
However, what I would say is that I think the HMC has quite a bit more latitude than the 5D as soon as you start using the 5D at higher ISO settings. I found that (with an f2.8 lens) I needed to be at ISO 1250 to get near the HMC 0db IRIS open settings in low light and as soon as the HMC was kicked up in to 6db and 12db it held the dynamic range better than the 5D as it needed to step up to ISO 2500 and beyond. While the HMC noise increased (as expected), this can be fixed using a little Neat Video filtering.
The GH1 was in a class of it's own - being the worst of the bunch - even with C settings on the hack firmware.
However, your scene, shot with your lighting may be different and make different demands on the sensors, so my results may not be the same as yours. As they say, YMMV.
Once you got to the point of needing the same DOF on the 5D as the HMC can get as standard (yes I know - most people as looking for 'shallow', not deep) then the HMC wins hands down in low light. I could not find a good setting for the Canon shooting at 100mm in low light that came anywhere close to the HMC DOF. Of course I couldn't get the HMC be be as shallow as the 5D either.
What this goes to show (which I was expecting) is that there is no one tool that is perfect in every case. You either need lots of tools or plan your shoots within the limitation of the tools you have.
However, what I would say is that I think the HMC has quite a bit more latitude than the 5D as soon as you start using the 5D at higher ISO settings. I found that (with an f2.8 lens) I needed to be at ISO 1250 to get near the HMC 0db IRIS open settings in low light and as soon as the HMC was kicked up in to 6db and 12db it held the dynamic range better than the 5D as it needed to step up to ISO 2500 and beyond. While the HMC noise increased (as expected), this can be fixed using a little Neat Video filtering.
The GH1 was in a class of it's own - being the worst of the bunch - even with C settings on the hack firmware.
However, your scene, shot with your lighting may be different and make different demands on the sensors, so my results may not be the same as yours. As they say, YMMV.
Once you got to the point of needing the same DOF on the 5D as the HMC can get as standard (yes I know - most people as looking for 'shallow', not deep) then the HMC wins hands down in low light. I could not find a good setting for the Canon shooting at 100mm in low light that came anywhere close to the HMC DOF. Of course I couldn't get the HMC be be as shallow as the 5D either.
What this goes to show (which I was expecting) is that there is no one tool that is perfect in every case. You either need lots of tools or plan your shoots within the limitation of the tools you have.
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JoeJITSU
Veteran
Come on , a 2.8?
Put a 1.4 on the 5d in lowlight and the 5d is far superior in lowlight period.
I've seen videos already, even compared a friends HMC150 to another friends 5DM2, the 5D of course had a 35mm 1.4..... Night and day difference. I know some of you might say a faster lens is cheating, but it is an advantage of a 5DM2
Put a 1.4 on the 5d in lowlight and the 5d is far superior in lowlight period.
I've seen videos already, even compared a friends HMC150 to another friends 5DM2, the 5D of course had a 35mm 1.4..... Night and day difference. I know some of you might say a faster lens is cheating, but it is an advantage of a 5DM2
Would love to.... (and in the right circumstances I have the 14L, 24L and 35L) but perhaps you can point me to an f1.4 lens @ 200mm? How about at 350mm @ f1.4? The HMC can shoot at 350mm equivalent no problem, so what's your solution now?
And before you say zoom with your feet, what happens if you CAN'T (due to obstructions) ???
What about when the f1.4 produces too shallow a DOF that makes it unusable for the task in hand?
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JoeJITSU
Veteran
Lol, I'm just being a little harsh because I almost went the HMC150 route till I seen footage of someones 5DM2 in a nightclub. This is what I need it for once a week. I was almost sold on the 150 since I seen some beautiful footage in lowlight , with very little noise and the blacks being very clean until I saw this guys 5DM2 footage. Now yes I know the downfall is the zoom and for my needs , it's fine. I can live with that. Thanks for the response though. I will surely sell my 40 soon to pick up a 150 though
No worries. It actually just proves my point that different tasks often need different tools, and while there is often crossover, rarely can two completely different tools both do the same jobs equally well.
RenewableEnergyNews
Member
Had a real estate shoot where we used the Panasonic HMC150 along with the Canon 5DII w/ Canon 17-40mm f/4.0 USM L lens. Will share that on this thread once I get the ok from the Realtor (couple days).
Felt the 5D did get noisy past ISO 800, nothing too bad, looked similar to film grain in the shadows. IMO, the 5D isn't a replacement for the HMC150, but it compliments it nicely. Be sure and shoot flat on the 5D and match them up in post. Manually set WB on both cameras off a white card, then shoot a black/gray/white card with both cameras. Use the black/gray/white shot to match them better in post.
Felt the 5D did get noisy past ISO 800, nothing too bad, looked similar to film grain in the shadows. IMO, the 5D isn't a replacement for the HMC150, but it compliments it nicely. Be sure and shoot flat on the 5D and match them up in post. Manually set WB on both cameras off a white card, then shoot a black/gray/white card with both cameras. Use the black/gray/white shot to match them better in post.
JoeJITSU
Veteran
Well it is an f4. Depends on what lighting you have. we were discussing lowlight. If you use a fast lens for the 5DM2 your going to get very good results. a 85mm 1.2 , 50mm 1.2 or 1.4 etc... Im not bashing on the HMC150...I am still buying one as soon as I get rid of my HMC40 but when it comes to extreme lowlight....The 5DM2 is superior with FAST LENS. Its common sense. Fast Lens ...More light. I call it cheating but .....fact is fact. Now if you but the kit lens up with the HMC150 then of course the 5DM2 is going to have problems and have to up the ISO.
RenewableEnergyNews
Member
Here is the video with HMC150 and 5D footage cut together... a great duo if you ask me. If we're just talking video capabilities however, I think most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference between 7D and 5D footage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM7Jq-lQ4ts&fmt=22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM7Jq-lQ4ts&fmt=22