HMC150 questions answered...

Lithos said:
so a duo core imac wouldn't do the trick?
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Again, I'm an Adobe/Windows guy, and the guy telling us this wasn't an Apple representative, so take everything I say with a grain of salt... but I was told to run on a Mac, it MUST be a newer Intel based multicore system. Beyond that, I can't answer it. DO NOT take that as an "official" anything or hold me to it. If you can get it to run on a single core or a Motorola chip (that was what Macs ran on before the Intel switch, right?), more power to you.

I'm just waiting on CS4 64bit with great anticipation :happy:
 
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shrigg said:
...Sharpness-wise the HMC150 won't compare to an EX1 let alone the nice 1/2" chip DOF that the EX provides... But when you consider that you could nearly buy TWO for the EX1 price it seems excusable. Let alone media costs etc.... I, too am sure I'll be happy with my choice to go HMC150!! :thumbup::thumbup:
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Yeah, I'm sure the EX1 will be sharper. The $3,000 dollar question is, is it that much sharper?

As far as DOF, I'm planning on getting a Letus one way or the other. That $3,000 can go towards upgrading from the Letus Extreme to the Ultimate. Or I could just keep just get the Extreme and pocket the difference :happy:
 
Mike Harvey said:
Yeah, I'm sure the EX1 will be sharper. The $3,000 dollar question is, is it that much sharper?

As far as DOF, I'm planning on getting a Letus one way or the other. That $3,000 can go towards upgrading from the Letus Extreme to the Ultimate. Or I could just keep just get the Extreme and pocket the difference :happy:
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You read my mind. I was gonna make a follow up post about how 3k buys a Letus Extreme and a lot of Nikon primes! The HMC150's focus/iris switch seems MADE for DOF adapter use!

I have heard complaints from the HVX camp that everything looks like it is shot with a pro mist when using the Letus. I have actually heard people say they preferred the look of the RedRock M2. I've used the M2 and wasn't too impressed with all the light loss, the Letus is supposed to be lose much less light.

I have been working with a manufacturer who is bringing a new DOF adapter to market. First model is for HV20's but the second model will be a 72mm size for use with HVX/HPX170/HMC. This new adapter is using far more advanced optical technology than what is currently out there. That's all I can say right now, but I will definitely keep everyone posted on this!
 
Mike Harvey said:
Yeah, I'm sure the EX1 will be sharper. The $3,000 dollar question is, is it that much sharper?
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Considering the sharpness difference would only be noticed by us camera geeks that look for it- I would argue it's not worth 3K more. And then you have to factor in the cost of SxS vs. SDHC!!

...to the average shmo who is sitting about 15 feet away from an HD monitor, they are not going to see any real difference at all. We're the ones who obsess about resolution, our audience does not. Take the 3k savings and invest in some creative writing classes and that will make the difference to the audience :)

THe one thing I don’t like is that Panny went with a sony-esque proprietary battery system. No aftermarket DVX user brand for the 150/170?? :(
 
The EX1 will be noticibly sharper on a 1080 screen. If you were viewing or distributing at 720, it might not be so obvious. If you really want to compare, just look at the EX1 vs HVX200 comparisons that have already been out there. Despite some nice improvements, the sharpness was said not to have been improved on the 200a, and the hpx170/hmc150 use the same chip. As pointed out many times, there is a lot more to the equation than sharpness, and for most people considering the 150 (myself included), the first reason is $3000 +expensive media.

The HMC150 will also not be any sharper than the hvx200's/hpx170 due to the fact that the chips simply cannot resolve full 1920x1080, so the codec won't help. On the other hand, the 150's avchd will be sharper in 720p vs DVCPro's 720p. That is the real money spot on this camera. On low-movement or keying shots, the 1080 mode might help quite a bit with chroma res.

A lot of people complain it doesn't do variable frame rates, but remember that all variable framerates in DVDPro are only 960x720, and (to most people) the most important framerate of all is 60p which the 150 does.
 
mcsmooth said:
The EX1 will be noticibly sharper on a 1080 screen.
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we would probably notice it yes; we look for telltale signs of resolution artifacts- noise, macro blocking, and aliasing. But the average viewer? I doubt they could tell any difference at a normal viewing distance. Have them stand 2 feet away from the screen- well then you're not "watching a movie" anymore but "scrutinizing pixels". Some might see it- the EX1 is pretty darn sharp, but most would be hard pressed I think. But yes you're right its much more that just sharpness.

expos and manufacturer demos always like to show you video blown up 3 or 4 times to see the difference and there is a reason for that

After "Lonesome Jim" (shot on DVX100), I asked my friends what they thought of the picture and they thought it looked great. I had to point out to them the noise in the kitchen scenes and they rolled their eyes...

Barry_Green said:
The 170 can use DVXUser batteries.
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thats good, I thought the 150/170 difference was the P2/Pro HD
 
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Lithos said:
so a duo core imac wouldn't do the trick?
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shrigg said:
Probably it won't run Premiere Pro CS4 if that's what you mean.
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A Core Duo iMac WILL run CS4; I have it on mine.

The problem would be horsepower for real-time playback of the native HMC150 footage. It wasn't great on my 2.0 GHz machine, but other iMacs have faster processors and will give better performance. Also, more RAM than 2 GB may help.
 
shrigg said:
I am running FCS2 (6.04) on a MacBook Pro 17" 2.33 GHz with 4Mb RAM and OS 10.5.4

I'll let you know how it works. I'll be using the ProRes 422 Log & Transfer transcoding workflow. I'll also test Roxio Toast 9 transcoding and will post the results here!
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Sit tight.

Word is the newest iteration of FCP will ingest and edit AVCHD natively.

The word is at IBC.
 
Edweirdo said:


we would probably notice it yes; we look for telltale signs of resolution artifacts- noise, macro blocking, and aliasing. But the average viewer? I doubt they could tell any difference at a normal viewing distance. Have them stand 2 feet away from the screen- well then you're not "watching a movie" anymore but "scrutinizing pixels". But yes you're right its much more that just sharpness.
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I'm not disagreeing that the average user wouldn't know (especially on an average TV), just stating the facts. However, side by side, you can clearly see the difference on a 1080 monitor or 1080 50"+ TV. Now if you are just watching one thing, either one is going to look damn good on any screen, don't get me wrong! When I jump from a quality DHT program (shot on a cam MUCH more than an EX1) to another show that is distinctively HVX, the difference is noticeable, but the HVX still looks great! I think I'll hold out on 1080 chips until we see 60+fps (I know, scarlet... bla, bla, doesn't exist yet, different market).

BTW, I had no problem with the MainConcept tool transcoding Barry's 720p clips when he uploaded them. I just installed it then, so it may have been a slightly newer version, and the documentation clearly said it only did 1080 despite the results. I can see doing that with clips in the meantime for easy editing now, then replacing the clips with the originals when the NLEs are fully ready for AVCHD. Gives you some time to piece together a new machine too. :thumbup:
 
When does the HMC15x get it's own thread on the main DVX page? My camera is due to arrive Friday :thumbup:, so it's gotta be about time!
 
kurtmo said:
When does the HMC15x get it's own thread on the main DVX page? My camera is due to arrive Friday :thumbup:, so it's gotta be about time!
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kurtmo, when you have please make some samples, because here ate the job we are thinking of purchase one =)
Thanks, Jorge
 
Regarding the badly needed flip function for us 35mm DOF adaptor users, I've just gone through the 150's user's manual and can only find a mirror switch (like the DVX had) - to me all that means is that when you flip the display to face the talent it will only mirror the image from left to right - it will not actually flip the image horizontally (as does the JVC HD-200U.) So once you bolt on your adaptor to this camera the image will still be recorded upside down albeit flipped only on the vertical plane.

I hope I'm wrong, but this means that you still need to buy a flipping device for your 35mm adaptor or mod the camera using a switch or magnet to flip the image in the horizontal :(

Can anyone confirm this?
 
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Barry_Green said:
Yep, you're wrong. The LCD flip is a 180-degree rotation.
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The manual does explain it oddly but the 180 degree rotation _would_ serve as a self portrait display too with the LCD facing forward. However the footage is recorded normally. So you will still need to flip DOF adapter footage in post.
 
Even though it dates all the way back to NAB, this WEVA webpage has an interview with Steve Golub which has a nice up-close look at the HMC150 for those that may not have seen it yet.



Edit: I changed the link to the webpage itself instead of linking to the video since that seemed to crash their server. On their webpage, just click on WATCH NOW - Click Here!
 
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