HMC150 and HPX170

DavidNJ

DavidNJ

Carbonite Member
Other than the obvious difference of DVCProHD to P2 cards vs. AVCHD to SDHC I have compared the brochures.

Here is what I found.

Both cameras have the same lens, sensors, shoot-time operator assist functions. Both process a 1080p/60 image internally. Both output SD to their component output.

And they differ primarily in the recording. DVCPro allows recording variable frame rates in 720p mode. However, that appears to be electronic processing of the 1080p/60 image processing rather than a change in capture rate.

The HPX170 uses two P2 cards has a hot swap capability. The HMC150 uses one card without a hot swap.

The HPX170 has interval recording. The HMC150 doesn't. This is likely a limitation of the recording format.

The HPX170 can record 100Mb/sec or 40Mb/sec in 720p/24or 30, the HMC150 only 24Mb/sec. At 100Mb/sec in 720p/60 or 1080i/30 modes, the HPX170 is recording significantly more data. In 720p/24 or 30, the difference is much smaller and may even favor the AVCHD's more advanced algorithms.

The HPX170 DVCPro allows text memo.

The HPX170 DVCPro can record 4-channel audio but only has two external audio connectors.

The HPX170 DVCPro is recording 4:2:2 vs 4:2:0...significantly more color information.

The HPX170 has an HD-SDI output, the HMC-150 uses HDMI. However, recording to a PC the cost difference in the adapters is much smaller than the cost difference between the cameras and the functionality is equivalent. The HD-SDI offers a better connection in production environments and is compatible with production recording decks.

It would seem the big difference would be in the recorded image quality, especially with regards to color.. However, I can't find any recorded image quality comparisons.

Do you know of any?
 
I actually just recently went to Omega Broadcast, a local dealer in Austin, TX and tried out the HMC150 for myself. I also copied the footage I shot there to my laptop so I could study it later on.

HMC150
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It was really light in my hands. I think it weighs about 3 1/2lbs. so it was actually a bit difficult for me to keep steady and I held and shot with it. I currently use a Canon XL2 so yeah, going form shoulder cam to handheld becomes a little weird. Since I have worked with the HVX200 before, the menu for the camera is completely different and I was unfamiliar with it. I shot 3 files with it, 720p24p, 720p60p, and 1080p24p.

720p24p - Not bad at all. I was actually a little impressed with the picture that the HMC was able to put out at this res and frame rate. Definitely the sweet spot for this camera.

720p60p - I couldn't look at this footage. Everytime I tried to log and transfer this footage to final cut, it would just crash the program. Since its AVCCAM, I had to use Toast 9 to convert it to DVCPROHD. Once then, I was able to see it and it was still pretty good. However, I didn't like the fact that I had to put an extra step between myself and editing with waiting for this file to convert itself in toast.

1080p24p - Between this and 720p24p, I could not tell a difference. I have no idea why. Still it was a great looking picture.


I have to say that while the HMC150 is a great camera, I would only use it as a B-Cam and only if I was shooting very long events. While AVCCAM is great at getting small files onto an SDHC card, the post-production workflow if you use final cut pro is a completely mess. You may have to convert files if you get crashes like I do in FCP. Also, remember that even though AVCCAM can fit 3hrs into a 32GB SDHC card, that will balloon to something much higher when converting it to ProRes. 1 hour of AVCCAM becomes a 65GB file in ProRes.
 
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I compared the pictures and it shows a bit more color info in the DVCProHD. I put histograms on the picture thread.

1234729462.png
 
Can anyone further expand on the pro's and con's on these two cameras?
It would also seem another difference on the 170 is the firewire out so you can record to HD.
You can't do that on the 150 right?
I'm finding this a hard call to make as dollar wise there's a reasonable difference but there a some nice things in the 170 I wish the 150 had...
Hands on experience welcome.
 
The biggest advantage for me is that the 150 uses low cost sd cards which frees me up from having to dump the cards to a laptop. I simply hand the card off to a producer or editor at the end of a shoot. If you edit your own stuff maybe this is not as important but the 150 saves me time and money.
 
thanks Buck, I can see the advantage of the SD cards. But is there anything you miss on the 150 vs. the 170?
 
The hmc150 delivers full size 1920x1080 or 1280x720 images so that step is already done.

SD cards are way less expensive.

The total investment is thousands less (if you shoot long events, you will need multiple cards, P2 cards are an un-needed expense, that offers no value for that expense, in my view)

You don't need a special reader for P2 cards.

You don't lose image quality from your final edit as you do with P2 during play back.
(P2 and other non-squared formats, have to enlarge the image to native size during playback,
which seems to lose quality over something that is already the playback size)

Disadvantages:
AVCHD is harder to edit.
AVCHD has to be decompressed at some point if you want to make a master.
(you don't want to edit avchd, and add effects, and save in avchd as a master, you lose too much by doing that. I prefer to create a 10 bit file from source AVCHD footage and use that as a master, as it doesn't fall apart like leaving it as AVCHD through delivery.)
 
We just used OnLocation extensively on the latest training DVD we're shooting. That is definitely a program that I would miss being able to use, if we'd shot the 150 as the A-cam.
 
Yeah but there's really no way to use this with the HMC150, right? Not until there's an affordable HDMI capture card for laptops (HMC150 has no Firewire, real shame) :(
 
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