HMC150 and greenscreen
- Thread starter Ulophot
- Start date
i'm still experimenting with this camera for greenscreen too....
i tried someone else's post about lowering detail but was not at all happy with the results.
what i'm going to try next is:
boost color levels/saturation a bit to make sure i'm getting a strong green signal to key out
and try increasing edge detail to get a sharper key outline
i can always soften the edges in post, but i don't like a soft blurry edge when trying to key.
i tried someone else's post about lowering detail but was not at all happy with the results.
what i'm going to try next is:
boost color levels/saturation a bit to make sure i'm getting a strong green signal to key out
and try increasing edge detail to get a sharper key outline
i can always soften the edges in post, but i don't like a soft blurry edge when trying to key.
Wood_Dragon65
New member
If anything, I would record a noiseless image (i.e. no gain) with a gamma like CINE-LIKE_D. This will make the image flat in the color space - but you can easily modify that in post. Your green screen being flatter and more even should be easier to remove.
Once you're satisfied with your key, you can proceed with the color correction phase.
Once you're satisfied with your key, you can proceed with the color correction phase.
Ive used it on a really bad green screen and keyed it out just fine
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=166875
Light your subject properly and keying it out would be easy. I use AE's keylight which is the best way.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=166875
Light your subject properly and keying it out would be easy. I use AE's keylight which is the best way.
Justyn
Veteran
I've keyed quite a lot with this cam and the HVXs. It does a really good job overall. Contrary to the poster earlier, I've had much better results in turning of sharpness. You don't want added sharpening cause of the stepping around the key and this will kill the effect.. So I'd say to turn off the sharpening. Here's a good article on why:
http://www.digitalproductionme.com/article-926-shooting_green_screens_for_compositing/
There's a ton of other articles.. I wanted to find another one that goes into it, but this is a good one.
other things to note:
1. Use your waveform and zebras/marker to check for an even lighted key with no hot-spots and definitely no shadows.
2. Realize that the edges of the key don't have to be perfect.. You can garbage matte the edges if you need too.
3. Try to add some rim lighting to really make the subject pop.
4. IF you have a laptop NLE, shoot a test and bring it into your editing program and do a test.. Nothing better than doing that and making sure it's right while you are there and can correct it.
Other than that... it's good to go and.
http://www.digitalproductionme.com/article-926-shooting_green_screens_for_compositing/
There's a ton of other articles.. I wanted to find another one that goes into it, but this is a good one.
other things to note:
1. Use your waveform and zebras/marker to check for an even lighted key with no hot-spots and definitely no shadows.
2. Realize that the edges of the key don't have to be perfect.. You can garbage matte the edges if you need too.
3. Try to add some rim lighting to really make the subject pop.
4. IF you have a laptop NLE, shoot a test and bring it into your editing program and do a test.. Nothing better than doing that and making sure it's right while you are there and can correct it.
Other than that... it's good to go and.
just reshot some tests with the following settings:
detail: 0
vdetail: 0
detail coring: +7
chroma level: +7
chroma phase: -2
master ped: -5
drs: off
gamma: hd norm
knee: auto
matrix: cine-like
skin tone: on
this isn't perfect...i'm still not getting a totally clean key, but its better. i'm still struggling with sharpness/detail. i want my subject sharp, but no matter how perfectly i focus, i'm still getting really soft images and i'm shooting 1080_30p. i think i might need to reduce detail coring to increase sharpness.
before (nokey) -
after (keyed) -
agree with justyn that rim lighting helps a lot. it can help to cancel out a bit of spill too.
i've got a very minimal setup....only 3 lights really! all are fluorescents. 2 lights at 5600k filling the greenscreen. 1 light a bit warmer, between 3200k and 5600k as the key on the subject. a big reflector panel (silver/gold) bouncing the key as fill on the subject. and 2 little clamp lights with 60w full-spectrum tungsten bulbs as rim lights above and just behind the subject.
if i had a larger screen i could move the subject further from it and reduce spill.
i don't get an even spread in the wfm on the greenscreen with just the 2 lights....there's a dip in the middle, directly behind the subject, so it isn't perfect.
i experimented with increasing chroma level and shifting the phase to try to boost the greens. you might not want to do that. i'll continue to experiment with these settings though to see what really works best.
detail: 0
vdetail: 0
detail coring: +7
chroma level: +7
chroma phase: -2
master ped: -5
drs: off
gamma: hd norm
knee: auto
matrix: cine-like
skin tone: on
this isn't perfect...i'm still not getting a totally clean key, but its better. i'm still struggling with sharpness/detail. i want my subject sharp, but no matter how perfectly i focus, i'm still getting really soft images and i'm shooting 1080_30p. i think i might need to reduce detail coring to increase sharpness.
before (nokey) -
after (keyed) -
agree with justyn that rim lighting helps a lot. it can help to cancel out a bit of spill too.
i've got a very minimal setup....only 3 lights really! all are fluorescents. 2 lights at 5600k filling the greenscreen. 1 light a bit warmer, between 3200k and 5600k as the key on the subject. a big reflector panel (silver/gold) bouncing the key as fill on the subject. and 2 little clamp lights with 60w full-spectrum tungsten bulbs as rim lights above and just behind the subject.
if i had a larger screen i could move the subject further from it and reduce spill.
i don't get an even spread in the wfm on the greenscreen with just the 2 lights....there's a dip in the middle, directly behind the subject, so it isn't perfect.
i experimented with increasing chroma level and shifting the phase to try to boost the greens. you might not want to do that. i'll continue to experiment with these settings though to see what really works best.
It isn't just dependent on cam and lighting.
Which software you are using is also critical. Huge difference among those available as to capabilities and price points
Which software you are using is also critical. Huge difference among those available as to capabilities and price points
Justyn
Veteran
I think that you are going to be really hard pressed to get some good looking keys from your set-up and equipment. You can see from the mask and the shot itself that you are getting way too much spill on the right side of the image. The left side looks pretty clean and the right side is where you are are getting your jaggies and your spill. That much spill will be really hard to key out.. and also her haircolor doesn't help much either. Blondes or dirty blondes thend to do a wee bit better on bluegreens as a rule.. but its expensive to have both.
Here's a couple of bits of advice and they are cheap...
1. Get a paper greenscreen backdrop.. a 9 foot roll.. about 50 bucks and it'll help you tremendously. I like the paper since you don't have to worry about the wrinkles and if it gets dirty you rip it off and use another piece.
2. Pick up some cheap clip on lights from lowes/home depot and use photoflood bulbs. I do this all the time and it works very well. You can get them in a variety of sizes from 100 too 500 watss and this should nicely fill out your kit. You can get the bulbs in 3200 and 5000k. The lights can be clamped all over the place and on light stands or whatever. The smith victors work too but you pay a wee bit more.
For most of the greenscreen stuff that I use.. I try to have 2-4 lights on the matte and keep the actor and or object atleast 8 feet away. If I can get them further away the better. I then like to have a nice rimlight on the actor sometimes with a bit of color on it.. or maybe some strawfilter/ or whatever. You can also then keep the throw from the talent light from getting on the subject.
Good luck and you are on your way.. Just add a few pieces of cheap gear.. maybe a 100 for the new greenscreen, 2-3 lights and bulbs.. noto too bad
Here's a couple of bits of advice and they are cheap...
1. Get a paper greenscreen backdrop.. a 9 foot roll.. about 50 bucks and it'll help you tremendously. I like the paper since you don't have to worry about the wrinkles and if it gets dirty you rip it off and use another piece.
2. Pick up some cheap clip on lights from lowes/home depot and use photoflood bulbs. I do this all the time and it works very well. You can get them in a variety of sizes from 100 too 500 watss and this should nicely fill out your kit. You can get the bulbs in 3200 and 5000k. The lights can be clamped all over the place and on light stands or whatever. The smith victors work too but you pay a wee bit more.
For most of the greenscreen stuff that I use.. I try to have 2-4 lights on the matte and keep the actor and or object atleast 8 feet away. If I can get them further away the better. I then like to have a nice rimlight on the actor sometimes with a bit of color on it.. or maybe some strawfilter/ or whatever. You can also then keep the throw from the talent light from getting on the subject.
Good luck and you are on your way.. Just add a few pieces of cheap gear.. maybe a 100 for the new greenscreen, 2-3 lights and bulbs.. noto too bad
Barry_Green
Moderator
Get the subject as far away from the screen as possible, to minimize/eliminate spill. If you're not getting the framing you want, back up and zoom in, that'll tighten up the field of view and fill the background with the green screen even if it's further away.
thanks for all the advice!
i read a quick AE keylight tutorial and was able to drastically improve my chromakey!
the greenscreen is blue on the other side...which i agree, has given me better results with the same subject (my wife), but i'm trying green because everyone says its better.
here's the new AE key:
what is really funny, is that i was having really nice results with this same lighting/greenscreen setup but shooting with a canon hg10 (1chip cmos)!
i read a quick AE keylight tutorial and was able to drastically improve my chromakey!
the greenscreen is blue on the other side...which i agree, has given me better results with the same subject (my wife), but i'm trying green because everyone says its better.
here's the new AE key:
what is really funny, is that i was having really nice results with this same lighting/greenscreen setup but shooting with a canon hg10 (1chip cmos)!
forgive the poor image quality on that last one...2X jpg compression.
for those interested in the quick tutorial on AE's keylight effect:
http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/aftereffects/articles/aft7at_keylight_02.html
for those interested in the quick tutorial on AE's keylight effect:
http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/aftereffects/articles/aft7at_keylight_02.html
increased detail and noise reduction
increased detail and noise reduction
(sorry to have hijacked the thread! i'm trying to share/show how the scene file settings affect chromakey)
here's another test, with detail = +7, vdetail = +7 and core detail = +7
that's full blast on detail and maximum noise reduction.
that's waaaaaay sharper and not a bad key.
increased detail and noise reduction
(sorry to have hijacked the thread! i'm trying to share/show how the scene file settings affect chromakey)
here's another test, with detail = +7, vdetail = +7 and core detail = +7
that's full blast on detail and maximum noise reduction.
that's waaaaaay sharper and not a bad key.
just when you thought you all had enough of my big images.... 
i just did a bluescreen shoot yesterday with my same 3-light setup (not counting the practical fluorescent overheads and 2 led rim lights) and with custom scene file settings:
detail +7, vdetail +7, vcore +7, ped -5, gamma HDnorm, knee Auto, matrix Cine-like, skintone ON and everything else 0/default.
did a quick key in Edius so its not as clean as what can be done in AE with keylight.
i figured out that i was overlighting my green/bluescreen, so this time i turned off 2 bulbs(out of 8) which lit the screen more evenly and, overall, a stop or two darker than the subject. my subject is still only about 6ft from the screen, but with less light hitting it, there is less spill bouncing back.
(image converted from bmp to jpg...might be some detail loss)
i just did a bluescreen shoot yesterday with my same 3-light setup (not counting the practical fluorescent overheads and 2 led rim lights) and with custom scene file settings:
detail +7, vdetail +7, vcore +7, ped -5, gamma HDnorm, knee Auto, matrix Cine-like, skintone ON and everything else 0/default.
did a quick key in Edius so its not as clean as what can be done in AE with keylight.
i figured out that i was overlighting my green/bluescreen, so this time i turned off 2 bulbs(out of 8) which lit the screen more evenly and, overall, a stop or two darker than the subject. my subject is still only about 6ft from the screen, but with less light hitting it, there is less spill bouncing back.
(image converted from bmp to jpg...might be some detail loss)
learning the hard way, pushing the limits
learning the hard way, pushing the limits
ok, after further testing and placing the keyed clip on a white bg, i can see what others have been saying about the contrast sharpening that happens when you raise the detail levels.
there's an obviously artificial edge outline around the subject that is a darker shade of the bluescreen's blue that makes it tricky to key out without cropping his ears!
i'm still not happy with the hmc's default lack of sharpness, so will continue to experiment with toned down levels of detail (+3 or so?) until i can get a clean key with a sharp image.
ironically, i'm actually getting a better key from edius than AE keylight.
hopefully my explorations will be helpful to others and not just a good laugh for all you pros out there!
learning the hard way, pushing the limits
ok, after further testing and placing the keyed clip on a white bg, i can see what others have been saying about the contrast sharpening that happens when you raise the detail levels.
there's an obviously artificial edge outline around the subject that is a darker shade of the bluescreen's blue that makes it tricky to key out without cropping his ears!
i'm still not happy with the hmc's default lack of sharpness, so will continue to experiment with toned down levels of detail (+3 or so?) until i can get a clean key with a sharp image.
ironically, i'm actually getting a better key from edius than AE keylight.
hopefully my explorations will be helpful to others and not just a good laugh for all you pros out there!
ok, this is the last one, i promise!!
i was finally able to get a better key in keylight, but you can still see the outline/artificial edge from the in-camera detail settings too high, especially on the bottom edge of the arm on the right side.
i just wanted to show my process and what is possible with the absolute BARE minimum of equipment. i know that i always find this sort of information helpful myself.
ps. did some CC on the foreground, and am annoyed that i didn't take better care of those blown out highlights on his head (this snapshot is from a different clip than the previous).
i was finally able to get a better key in keylight, but you can still see the outline/artificial edge from the in-camera detail settings too high, especially on the bottom edge of the arm on the right side.
i just wanted to show my process and what is possible with the absolute BARE minimum of equipment. i know that i always find this sort of information helpful myself.
ps. did some CC on the foreground, and am annoyed that i didn't take better care of those blown out highlights on his head (this snapshot is from a different clip than the previous).