Help needed, recording band sound with a H4N

S

shutterwill

Member
Hello everyone, A video homework requires me to make a 4 mins music video.


All I have now is a H4N which I just bought for a few days.
I decided to record each instrument and vocal one by one and here is my plan:


1 record the drum (with the mic on H4N set to MS matrix mode to make it more directional)


2 record the keyboard (with the keyboard plug into the H4N directly)


with the beat set up, it should make it easier to record the rest.
3 electronic guitar (plug in the H4N directly)
4 bass (plug in the H4N directly)
5 vocal (with the mic on H4N set to MS matrix mode to make it more directional or should I use their mic and plug it directly into my H4N?)


Besides, is there anything I should pay attention to when it comes to lip syn?


I'm new to audio recording, advice is welcomed ~
Thank you.
 
Recording drums is a very difficult thing to do. If you do not have the best material or recording conditions, try to do the drums in software. Nowadays they sound relatively good for a Demo. The rest I think you're doing fine. Record every instrument separated. But make sure you have a base tempo reference sound (metronome) for your musicians or you'll be in trouble when putting everything together.

As for your question about the vocals, I would suggest using an external mic connected to the H4N.

Hope this helps,

Sergio
 
First, why do you need to record the music in order to make a music video? Just curious. Music isn't normally recorded just for a music video. Rather, music videos are shot for recorded music that's already been released.

Second, while the H4n can function as a multitrack recorder, you're asking a lot of that little device, unless you're using it as a computer interface and recording straight to Cubase LE. Are you planning to do this all with the H4n, or are you using the bundled software?
 
Thank for the responds.

The reason for me to record the song is because I want to take this opportunity to make a music video for my friends' amature band.
Like all other amature project, the budget for this project is close to nothing. That's why I want to get the most out of my H4N.
 
If you can rig the zoom onboard as an overhead or room mic setup, while running a mic to the snare and the kick it will give you more options. Get the zoom either close to the symbols... or as a room mic and crush later with compression. The kick mic close to the beater will give you less boom and more thwack. Also close on the snare using the directionality of the mic to try to minimize hat bleed. Depending on the band and the sound they want, but for a rock band this is what I would try. Also they may want the sound of the gtr amp or bass, so DI won't work. In that case stick the mic right at the speaker cone. You can move it centimeters and it will give you different sounds. Also as good mixing and master will highly increase the quality, you can't beat aa great performance so make sure you/they feel it.
 
Something I didn't take into account was the fact you may not be able to edit 4 track seperately. In this case check out the recorderman overhead technique. It will sound much better than just the onboard mics. For VOX use an external mic... This all is a ton of work. Maybe try to record one of their shows instead. Assuming tthe guy at the board can mix.
 
The H4N is quite often used by musicians and bands to record their music. You may not need to go to so much trouble.

First, try to find a 'sweet spot' to place the H4N where it will record the whole band at once. Record them playing their song. Then listen to the recording on something with decent speakers or good quality headphones. If done in a decent room with good ambience and no distracting noises, this may be all you need. It should certainly, at the very least, provide you with a good foundation upon which you can layer separate recordings of some of the weaker instruments. You may have to play around with the positioning of the H4n to get the best sound.

Plugging the various instruments into the H4n to record them separately is likely to give you huge headaches.

This is a VIDEO project, right? Not a project for some audio engineering class? Don't try to be an expert audio engineer at this point. Get a decent track of the song, and then get to work on the video part. If it turns out well, then you can always later go back and try for a better recording of the whole song.

Good luck!
 
Mitch.Kear said:
Maybe try to record one of their shows instead. Assuming tthe guy at the board can mix.
Click to expand...

Pulling a feed from a sound board doesn't usually result in a good audio of the music. The reason is the board is mixed for the acoustic characteristics of the house. In other words, it's balanced to make the music sound good in the building it's in. Sending that mix out to your H4n will likely result in a fairly horrible music mix for video purposes. Not saying it can't be done. It can, if everyone involved knows exactly what they're doing. Just pointing out that it's not as easy as it seems.
 
David W. Richardson said:
The H4N is quite often used by musicians and bands to record their music. You may not need to go to so much trouble.

First, try to find a 'sweet spot' to place the H4N where it will record the whole band at once. Record them playing their song. Then listen to the recording on something with decent speakers or good quality headphones. If done in a decent room with good ambience and no distracting noises, this may be all you need. It should certainly, at the very least, provide you with a good foundation upon which you can layer separate recordings of some of the weaker instruments. You may have to play around with the positioning of the H4n to get the best sound.

Plugging the various instruments into the H4n to record them separately is likely to give you huge headaches.

This is a VIDEO project, right? Not a project for some audio engineering class? Don't try to be an expert audio engineer at this point. Get a decent track of the song, and then get to work on the video part. If it turns out well, then you can always later go back and try for a better recording of the whole song.

Good luck!
Click to expand...


Sorry, David, but that way the drums will always sound bad or amateurish.
 
I agree its not great to just take a board mix but its also not as easy as it seems to just throw a h4n in a room of that many musicians and yeild good results. Many clubs have a secondary mixer setup for recording. Also using the 4 track with the onboards by the mixing board and line ins could give you a great sounding live track, much better than a room filled with noisy instruments and reflections... Drum programming takes forever and is difficult to do if you don't know what you're doing. At least record the drums then add the samples later.
 
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Give this thread a read. It includes some audio samples using the H4n to record a band in what sounds like a club environment.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f43/just-bought-zoom-h4n-530433/

I wouldn't suggest recording the music in a club environment. I would record it in the band's practice space, if it's quiet enough. If not, find a small, enclosed, non-reverb, quiet space where the band can setup and play. Shoot and record that. Then use the audio from that laid under video shot in other places.
 
Well throwing a H4n in an enclosed tiny space and recording the entire band off the floor is a much worse idea than recording in a club. I have experience doing both, in a club it sounds live and that's what you call it, in a small space with terrible recording technique you have a bad demo... Either multitrack or record the band live.
 
Layering in the instruments with single tracks is going to give you some serious headaches. Your friends' band is, as you say amateur, right? Which means every take will have differences in tempo and performance. Trying to piece that all together to make it sound good is going to make you pull your hair out. Trust me on this. And your friends may not appreciate the difficulty in what it takes, and may think you made them sound bad. And to do this you would need to only record each instrument as a solo, otherwise you will get phase issues and the recording will get muddy real fast. And the band members would have to deliver a dead on accurate performance everytime.

If all you have is the Zoom, just try to find a good place to record them live. Music is a tough thing to record and get sounding right if you are in a space not meant to record in. If you really wanted to do it right, but still wanted to use the Zoom.....you would need to mic up all the instruments, run them into a mixer, and then take the feed off the mixer into the Zoom. And you would need someone who knew how to mix for music. It is totally different than just mixing dialogue and SFX. That's a skill that takes years of experience and education to accomplish right.

But, all said and done, record them live or in a rehearsal. It will be much simpler, though it won't sound great. You can only do so much with a Zoom.
 
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An amatuer band probably plays 4/4 with a set tempo. Use a metronome and record the drums as I said. Do this in a rehersal space and get it tight as possible. From there use the H4n as an interface into an mtr software and get your bass,then gtr,then keys,then vox. It really isn't that hard. Amatuer band means they probably don't care about their own sound of amps so DI everything and stick a mic in front of the vox. This can easily be done in a day. Two if you are sample replacing the drums.
 
Mitch.Kear said:
Well throwing a H4n in an enclosed tiny space and recording the entire band off the floor is a much worse idea than recording in a club. I have experience doing both, in a club it sounds live and that's what you call it, in a small space with terrible recording technique you have a bad demo... Either multitrack or record the band live.
Click to expand...

I didn't say a 'tiny' space. I said a small space, so as to reduce reverb problems.

Since we don't know what creative approach the OP has in mind for the video, we don't know if he WANTS the band to sound "live". He may prefer it sound like a CD recording. We can't be sure. But sounding "live" introduces its own problems.

Look, NOTHING is going to sound as good as multiple professional mics, placed and mixed by an audio pro who knows what he's doing. The idea here is to help the OP get a reasonably good sound for his video without having to jump through a whole bunch of hoops to do it.

You say "Either multitrack or record the band live." Even recording the band live would need multitracking, with multiple mic sources, to get quality audio. And recording instruments and voices one-by-one in the hopes of being able to lay the tracks together into a coherent and decent sounding piece is going to be a true nightmare for a newbie.
 
The biggest issue with recording the band in a live venue is not having the ability to control ambient noise. The 'sweet spot' for mic placement might be right beside or above a table of the loudest drunks in the place. Even a sneeze, a throat clearing, or a whispered word to someone can mar the recording. This is why I was suggesting recording in a studio environment of some kind.
 
Decereasing the room size untreated puts you into a world of trouble with phase issues. And as for layering.. After the drums are are done you simply hit record and perform over top of the drums. Which works fine if you use a metronome when doing them in the first place.
 
Assuming you have done this before, Mitch.....how do you play back the drums you previously recorded for the band to play to, without re-recording them on the H4n? That would necessitate in ear monitoring in order to not hear them doubled on the recording. Remember, there is just an H4n here. Nothing else was stated.

I don't know too many garage bands that can do an accurate performance just with a metronome (pro musicians, yes; amateurs....not sure). Most of them need to hear at least the bass and drums. Even in a live on-stage venue, I always had to foldback stuff for performers so they could be tight, especially drums and bass. Same in the studio, actually moreso in the studio, when I was retracking over a scratch track.
 
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