Help! About to Buy ... Stuff!

G

gibbie

Member
I have been looking into buying an HVX package here in Vancouver, BC. I'm a little nervous taking the plunge, and most of that probably has to do with the fact that I know very little about almost everything.

The plan is to have a camera and package a) to learn on, pretty much from the ground up, ie, lighting, composition, sound, and all the tech. aspects of film/video production, and b) to have a set up that would be a valuable asset to bring to clients with a reasonable workflow.

Part of the problem is I don't even know quite what to ask, but hopefully someone will respond to this, and I can start researching and narrowing things down. Here is the package we are looking at:

HVX 200 w/ 2 4GB P2, Pelican 1550 case, D54s battery, 82mm UV
Vocas DV Mattebox MKII Wide Angle Kit B3 for HVX : includes french flag, adapter ring, rails
Vocas Follow Focus, Drive Gear, Gear Ring, Star Knob

(I looked at a Chorziel Follow Focus but the Vocas looked more robust

Does the above package seem OK? I should say that we plan on getting into both corporate video, music videos, as well as film production (I know, lofty goals!)

Then we'll need a tripod and fluid head. The same store has the Miller DS20 Tripod Kit 842: (includes DS440 Tripod). I think this is rated at 10 lbs? Isn't that a little lightweight?

Also, what is the benefit of having a 100mm ball leveller over the 75mm above?

I'll just ask one last question for now. Monitor? I really did do a search last night, but can't find the thread on a certain monitor that Barry, I think, suggested. I'm pretty sure it was a JVC. Does anyone know the model or thread? Is there a workaround to the cost factor? What if you used a HD LCD monitor just for focus, and then a smaller, say 9" professional monitor just for color reference?

Damn. Everything is so expensive! I have the $$$ for the cam, but everything else will be difficult, but I DO want to learn on the same gear that we'll be offering to clients, down the road. I know I could learn on a hi-8 and get grounded in many basics, but I'm pretty determined to fully explore filmmaking, and it is worth the risk to me.

Am I making any sense. I'd better go grab a coffee. Any suggestions, advice, etc.. are highly appreciated.

Cheers,
Chris.
 
I would get a bigger case so that you can drop the hvx in it with the vocus attached and not have to dissassemble it every time.
 
Seems like a nice setup. I'm saving up for a simular one. :)
It is a big investment though, if you're not sure the gigs will come. But then again, if you work hard enough...
For the monitor-thing, the marshall has been mentioned over and over on the forum as being pretty darn good.
And for tripods, better safe then sorry. A bit of margin in the weight department never hurts. I use a tripod that handles 18 kilos (how much pounds are that?) for my standard DVX. But I can (and have) mount an erecta-jib on it for example. So lighter isn't necessarely better for sticks. And a 100mm bowl will give you a wider range of accessories you can mount. 99% of the pro-tripods use 100mm bowls, so it explains itself really.
Good luck and good fun to ya...

Oliver
 
Soarprod: Thanks! That is definitely something I want to make sure of.

OliverM: Good luck to you and your plans! Truth is, we are in a position and field that will enable us to get the work, what we lack is the experience and know-how. We also have computers (macs of course!) and Protools and FCP (will be upgrading that).

I think the Marshall looks like a great idea. You can mount it on cam, and it is cheaper than the JVC I'm asking about. But I thought the resolution wasn't up to par. Would you use that in conjunction with a larger monitor to focus with, or are people finding it useful for both?

18 kilos is approx 35 lbs, I believe.

Thanks for the info!
 
Saving is for... nevermind. Responsible people. :) I've spent about $11k on stuff in the last two months, and ouch, it hurts. I don't have immediate plans for how to recover the cash, though I'm fairly certain I can pay it off by the end of the year through other means.

You can learn to do stuff with a consumer camcorder and some light bulbs, honestly. That's very hackerish, I suppose, but it is true.

Still, you'll love the toys, and if you have a creative spirit, there's almost no limit to what you can create.
 
jeffyjones: Well, that's pretty much where my head is at. If I never recover the money, and all I get to do is play around making my own little films .. I'll be pretty happy! I just love to be in a situation that enables me to create.

The other side of it is to be as ready as possible for walking into a situation and having the ability and gear to be somewhat professional. I don't want to replace $1500 head and sticks because I realize I need a $2500 kit. But, I don't want to spend needlessly either.

Well, so far I'm not hearing any objections to the Vocas FF and MB, and that is probably the first thing I'll get with the cam, unless I can swing the cash for the tripod as well.

For lighting, I was thinking along the lines of one of the DV Creator kits.

I guess there is always rental, as well. Man, I think I need a good book on HD video/lighting etc.
 
Well we obviously have something in common, and it is nice to be able to buy, er, finance expensive toys even if it is mostly just for being able to feed the soul in some way.

The fact that you can do SD video, and damn good looking SD video at that, made it a no-brainer for me. That's where I'll make a couple of bucks here and there.
 
gibble....you're buying way too much and investing too much money in this package if you truly "know little about it."

What is your experience with cameras and filmmaking? Just to help give an idea of where you are coming from because right now you make it sound like you are as green as a head of lettuce.

Buy the camera...you dont need all the extra Vocus stuff right now. You don't need an LCD monitor for pulling focus, and as far as tripods go, I would choose a sachtler/panther over a miller.

Tell me why you think you need all this stuff. Do you already have a production lined up with AC's and crew that actually give you a need to buy it? Because if not, you are wasting your money just starting out, and not knowing a lot.
 
gibbie said:
Well, so far I'm not hearing any objections to the Vocas FF and MB, and that is probably the first thing I'll get with the cam, unless I can swing the cash for the tripod as well.
Click to expand...


You just heard mine.
 
gibbie said:
I know I could learn on a hi-8 and get grounded in many basics, but I'm pretty determined to fully explore filmmaking, and it is worth the risk to me.
Click to expand...


Honestly? I'd recommed to go that route. I won't be presenting the majority opinion here, but my suggestion would be to buy stuff dirt-cheap on eBay, and [ab]use that to learn the craft.
In NO time will you get a MUCH BETTER feeling for what it is you will NEED.
You will waste far less money, and by the time you're ready to take the plunge for the REAL nice stuff, I bet the HVX200B will be out, and you can then get the latest.
 
The Sarlacc: Thanks so much for your input.

I am green, no doubt about it. I went to Vancouver Film School (10 month program) many years ago, and what I learned there, aside from a general introduction to filmmaking, was if you want to make films, just do it. Maybe I'm wrong. We did a doc on Vancouver based filmmakers, and these subjects all just "decided" to start making films. They learned as they went.

My partner and I just sold the DVX100a. That doesn't make me an expert, but I have some familiarity with the basic idea behind the camera. I shot a short piece called "Teddy Bear: Knives of Doom" (!) and that was about it before we decided to sell it for the HVX.

We are building a 'crew' of people with experience in the industry to be part of our production team, and we all have varying degrees of experience with film production.

I'm not refuting your advice, just trying to be clear on where I'm at, so I can get further advice such as yours. :)

Thanks so much ... I WILL consider what you say.
 
gibbie said:
The Sarlacc: Thanks so much for your input.

I am green, no doubt about it. I went to Vancouver Film School (10 month program) many years ago, and what I learned there, aside from a general introduction to filmmaking, was if you want to make films, just do it. Maybe I'm wrong. We did a doc on Vancouver based filmmakers, and these subjects all just "decided" to start making films. They learned as they went.

My partner and I just sold the DVX100a. That doesn't make me an expert, but I have some familiarity with the basic idea behind the camera. I shot a short piece called "Teddy Bear: Knives of Doom" (!) and that was about it before we decided to sell it for the HVX.

We are building a 'crew' of people with experience in the industry to be part of our production team, and we all have varying degrees of experience with film production.

I'm not refuting your advice, just trying to be clear on where I'm at, so I can get further advice such as yours. :)

Thanks so much ... I WILL consider what you say.
Click to expand...

I would say try and get on some slighty bigger production going on in your area. Call the local film commision and tell them you are interested in observing soe of the larger productions going on, and if they can help get you on set for a day or two, to just watch and learn. NOT to talk to the crew or bug busy workers with questions, but to just be a ghost.

See where that gets you.

Or see if you can audit a film program...step and brush up.
 
if u have extra money to spend, go ahead. If you are poor artist, what are u thinking. If u know nothing about video and such you need to get yourslef a dvx or xl2 or somthing. Its nice to have gear and such, but if u dont use it whats the point?
 
OK. I'm just trying to be honest with my lack of experience, and I DO lack experience. I have been on small AND large film production sets as an observer and as crew (for the indie prod). I have also been to film school as I mentioned. I have also used the DVX as I mentioned. However, I'm admitting that non of this makes me an expert by any stretch. But I do have a general idea of what I'm wanting to do, how to do it, and what my end goals are.

Saturnin: What am I thinking? I'm thinking that I would like to learn the HVX, having found the DVX to be quite impressive but still video-ish. I'm not talking about the stuff I shot, but features such as Lonesome Jim and November (which I quite liked).

The footage (or, some) that I've seen of the HVX looks stunning to me, relative to the DVX stuff. I'm thinking I'd like to learn the HVX well enough to get similar results. I'm thinking why learn to use a lesser camera which I hate the look of, when I could just learn the HVX from the start.

As I said, I hope down the road to recoup the $$$ spent on the camera. That would be great. Wonderful even. But, if all I ever do is have a chance to express myself with a great camera, then I wouldn't consider it a loss. I used to have $20,000 worth of home studio gear (audio) just so I could make my own music. I would have loved to have made money with it, but I didn't. Would I go back in time and buy a 4 track cassette recorder so I could learn the art of recording without the expense. Never! I learned a lot and had a lot of fun CREATING.

That being said, I will continue to respect and consider all who feel I should be talked out of this purchase. Perhaps there is a reason that I haven't wrapped my head around yet. Thanks for the replies, I hope they keep coming.

Cheers. :dankk2:
 
Buy the camera, a case, and some good sticks.

Leave the accessories for later. You don't need them now.

Rent them if you do.
 
The Sarlacc said:
Buy the camera, a case, and some good sticks.

Leave the accessories for later. You don't need them now.

Rent them if you do.
Click to expand...

i agree with this. keep in mind your monitoring & post needs.
You DON'T need everything on your list.
 
Thanks.

Originally the idea was to get just the camera and sticks. The list I gave in my post:

HVX 200 w/ 2 4GB P2, Pelican 1550 case, D54s battery, 82mm UV
Vocas DV Mattebox MKII Wide Angle Kit B3 for HVX : includes french flag, adapter ring, rails
Vocas Follow Focus, Drive Gear, Gear Ring, Star Knob

is part of a package deal that comes in under $10,000 CAD. I doubt the UV is all that good, but everything else looks great (the battery is an additional, btw). When my partner and I had (his) DVX, we had no tripod or, well, anything. Frustrating. I'm trying to assess if the above package is a good deal/investment. I agree, probably waiting on the monitor and everything else but the sticks is a good idea. We should add to the package as we "know" what we need. BUT, though I'm open to people's suggestions of all sorts, I'm really trying to get opinions on the gear I've listed and the questions I've asked.

This is a great message board and I really appreciate this resource. I know I may sound like an 18 year old kid trying to convince everyone that I need cool gear to make cool films. But, I'm 40 years old, have spent a lot of time and thought on what I want to do at this point in my life, and am presently, with my business partner, sorting out how we can get into filmmaking. This includes utilizing people with exptertise (a DOP, for ex.). But one thing we agree on is owning our own gear is a huge asset for us.

Yeah? No? Am I insane? :2vrolijk_08:

Cheers.
 
gibbie said:
This is a great message board and I really appreciate this resource. I know I may sound like an 18 year old kid trying to convince everyone that I need cool gear to make cool films. But, I'm 40 years old, have spent a lot of time and thought on what I want to do at this point in my life, and am presently, with my business partner, sorting out how we can get into filmmaking. This includes utilizing people with exptertise (a DOP, for ex.). But one thing we agree on is owning our own gear is a huge asset for us.

Yeah? No? Am I insane? :2vrolijk_08:

Cheers.
Click to expand...

I still say only buy the camera, case, and sticks for now. Unless that deal is such an unbelievable bargain that is makes it worth right now.

On board monitor? No. If you get a really good AC, he may very well have his own to use...with a box rental of course.

9" CRT...you will always want to have one of these on set with you...BUT these cost as much or more then the camera...rent it.

Mattebox and follow focus...rent these as needed. Unless you are getting into a job where they are just totally necessary...wait and see if you really "need" to spend the money on them.
 
OK. That seems like fair advice. Rental is always an option (though, as I say I prefer to own - then I can rent it out!!??).

Does anyone know if the package I listed is a good deal? I think it is, but I haven't priced a lot of FFs or MBs.

Again, though more sober than I like, I appreciate your advice. :)
 
gibbie said:
OK. That seems like fair advice. Rental is always an option (though, as I say I prefer to own - then I can rent it out!!??).

Does anyone know if the package I listed is a good deal? I think it is, but I haven't priced a lot of FFs or MBs.

Again, though more sober than I like, I appreciate your advice. :)
Click to expand...

Hey, we all want to run out and spend a much as we can on everything.

But getting a camera...especially at your expeirence level overall is a good start.

Instead of buying a FF and MB...why dont you invest in a Arri or Lowell light kit...then go out and practice shooting some small scenes.
 
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