Has the DSLR Hybrid craze effectively killed the desire for a Red Scarlet camera?

Max Smith said:
Frankly, I think your out of your mind. I work in the film business, I've worked in the film business since the ealy 90s and outside of Brett Ratner I can't think of anyone who needs to run a 12 minute take, much less anything longer.

If you're talking about a documentary then maybe, I don't know. But if you're talking about an actual film production, I'm calling Shenannigans.
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Editing my documentary now. I have 8 interviews in it. All but one ran between 20 and 30 minutes on tape without a break. I cannot tell you how nerve wracking it would be to stop after 10 minutes to change camera and then do it again after another 10 minutes ( especially when subjects are often nervous, rushed for time and more importantly willing to stop an interview for any excuse at all. I respect that many here are seasoned film makers but I'm starting to doubt their professionalism of suggesting that I might be "outta my mind" cause I make an issue of take length...:crybaby:. Even if takes were just 10 minutes on the button that would cramp my style for sure. Not every project is scripted down to the frame- right?
 
Nicely put and to underscore....
If and when the "DSLR's" can shoot longer takes ...
they will right?
It will become the war of the take lengths....
..."the new Canon D8... now with freon cooled sensors for 20 minute full HD movies...."
Soccer Moms will drool!



Barry_Green said:
People, please -- if someone wants/needs long takes, don't take it upon yourself to decree that "nobody needs that". If the DSLR is all about empowering new people and new creativity, then how do you know what any individual artist needs? If someone wants long running times, then they want long running times -- and that has to be okay with you. If the Canon can't do it, then the Canon can't do it -- and that has to be okay with you. Maybe he wants to shoot films AND do documentaries AND do events. Maybe he wants to make single-take films like "Russian Ark" and "Timecode".

Some of us want or need long recording times. Some of us want or need autofocus. Some of us want or need to be able to zoom during a shot. Some of us want or need lots of things. You can't tell someone that they don't need what they do. You can say "well, in my style of shooting I've never needed it" but that's pretty much where that ends. The whole idea of "Timecode" came about specifically because Figgis was intrigued by the idea of being able to do an entire film without any cuts. I doubt many here would be comfortable telling Mike Figgis "you don't actually need that."
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Erik Olson said:
A few others have said it, but I cannot tell you how many times I've seen the talent just starting to open up emotionally when we've had a tape change imminent. Depending on the situation, even calling out a X-minute warning can be a deal killer, let alone stopping to load another tape.

Nothing kills the momentum of an interview like that tape break does. For that reason, among many others, I'm a proponent of capturing interviews on media that spans without breaks - like P2.

I cannot imagine shooting anything with cameras that force you to pause to restart recording. To have cameras overheating within minutes of rolling is completely unacceptable in a professional environment, where hundreds of dollars (or more) are attached to each and every minute of the production day.
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Whew! Thanks!
 
In an case I think we can agree that the GH1 being able to record 4 hours continuously on a card is nice :)
 
Zephyrnoid said:
Editing my documentary now. I have 8 interviews in it. All but one ran between 20 and 30 minutes on tape without a break. I cannot tell you how nerve wracking it would be to stop after 10 minutes to change camera and then do it again after another 10 minutes ( especially when subjects are often nervous, rushed for time and more importantly willing to stop an interview for any excuse at all. I respect that many here are seasoned film makers but I'm starting to doubt their professionalism of suggesting that I might be "outta my mind" cause I make an issue of take length...:crybaby:. Even if takes were just 10 minutes on the button that would cramp my style for sure. Not every project is scripted down to the frame- right?
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So your documentary qualifies as 'most real world situations,' while the enitre film and television world does not?

Little egocentric there.
 
It is common to run short takes on features and single-camera television. It is just as common to run right off the edge of a 60 minute cassette in unscripted and documentary interviews. And it's disruptive when you do. I've got four interviews for a TLC series today - I'll post the length of each one from camera rolling to first tape hold. It won't be 12 minutes.

I honestly don't understand the disconnect here? If you don't need to run longer, and can't fathom the need to do so, please just keep it to yourself.
 
I rarely run more than 10 seconds but know people who (blues and twoes ot similar) roll a whole police shift - swapping cards out - they have to get the call coming in or the story is F c d

I would really dig a long pre-roll feature so when mrs starts blubbing you can hit go and get what you just missed -ultimately rolling is never bad but not rolling can be - there are no two ways about it

no one would choose this restriction but many can live with it

The real killer is developing muscle memory for the 5d and then failing to roll on the 7d because it has a different start button location!

S
 
I'll try to get more back on topic with a mini-rant:

I think RED is awesome. I love the idea of a grassroots group making filmmaking products designed by filmmakers (us). But, there is a big parity of Pro vs. Con in regards to the way they do business.

They WANT to have a dialogue with us so that they can give us what we want. And we want to have a dialogue with them so that we can give our input. That's all great. But, it makes them look really (IMHO, really really really) bad when they set dates that aren't followed through. It's disheartening for people like me, who are sick of working with DSLRs and have money ready to spend.

So, my 2¢ about the OP's question: No. My desire for a Scarlet has only increased since I've worked with a DSLR. I want something that works like a professional camera. The unfortunate part for RED is that they are unlikely to get my business because the AF100 will be a real product, likely long before the Scarlet has a solid release date.

I love what RED is doing, and the whole modular camera system is a great idea. Just needs to be more than an idea.
 
Mike McNeese said:
I'll try to get more back on topic with a mini-rant:

I think RED is awesome. I love the idea of a grassroots group making filmmaking products designed by filmmakers (us). But, there is a big parity of Pro vs. Con in regards to the way they do business.

They WANT to have a dialogue with us so that they can give us what we want. And we want to have a dialogue with them so that we can give our input. That's all great. But, it makes them look really (IMHO, really really really) bad when they set dates that aren't followed through. It's disheartening for people like me, who are sick of working with DSLRs and have money ready to spend.

So, my 2¢ about the OP's question: No. My desire for a Scarlet has only increased since I've worked with a DSLR. I want something that works like a professional camera. The unfortunate part for RED is that they are unlikely to get my business because the AF100 will be a real product, likely long before the Scarlet has a solid release date.

I love what RED is doing, and the whole modular camera system is a great idea. Just needs to be more than an idea.
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The development time frame for what Red is doing is very short, concept to finished product in about two years for a complete modular system and camera technology, high frame rate full sensor resolution raw acquisition, that hasn't been done before at this level by anyone. The final product line incorporates 70 different circuit boards and over 11,000 parts. Pretty remarkable achievement for a high tech startup.
Epics are in finished production prototype stage and going through the final QC and debugging process before release. Scarlet 2/3" are reported to be running about two months behind Epic and the final production components are in the lab for test and debugging prior to building production prototypes. They are way beyond the idea stage at this point.

Watching this development process can be frustrating for people who are used to seeing new products just appear in the market already finished without any of the extended development process being made public.
 
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Red was going to make an announcement about Scarlet in Mid May. We're now just a few days from June and nothing. They can't even keep a schedule to make an announcement.
 
f64manray said:
Red was going to make an announcement about Scarlet in Mid May. We're now just a few days from June and nothing. They can't even keep a schedule to make an announcement.
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I thought that the Mid-May announcement was just a joke, like in, "... An announcement about an announcement". No?
 
David G. Smith said:
I thought that the Mid-May announcement was just a joke, like in, "... An announcement about an announcement". No?
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From my understanding they were supposed to make an annoucement in mid May. They then made a little mini announcement that they were still waiting on more information to make the real announcement. I think Scarletuser is hoping for a preannouncement that may have some info when the real announcement may drop or at least some more pics of Jim's wife and a cigar. :-)
 
I assume the delay is due to Jim being on a month long health related sabbatical, give the guy some leeway. And Jarred made a mini announcement in the meantime.
 
Jarred did a q/a session last week stating that they were still waiting on some info to give everyone the "when is it going to be out" announcement that everyone wants. Supposed to be some footage this weekend as well, for those who haven't been following it too closely...
 
JayGannon said:
I assume the delay is due to Jim being on a month long health related sabbatical, give the guy some leeway. And Jarred made a mini announcement in the meantime.
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Jarred said they are still waiting on some final bits of information before they can complete the announcement, which hopefully will have final pricing on components and package discounts and an anticipated release schedule. Doesn't have anything to do with Jim's sabbatical.
 
another unreleased camera that (while it may come from a company you feel you can trust in areas you don't trust RED) is different enough from anything else (and similar enough to dslr's) that it is kind of impossible to predict the performance of until it is actually in the hands of others.... seeing a move to a video from factor is definitely interesting.... I'd like to wait and see myself, though, b/c it should be a good indicator of just how far motion reproduction can go with stills sensors
 
I would love to have either camera. The scarlet will come out eventually and when it does I will probably want that one as well. Maybe by the time a winner is chosen I will be able to afford one.
 
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