C300: Has Anyone RECENTLY Gone to England Without a Carnet?

paulears said:
How does a penalty work? Surely it can only if you commit an offence? Do they not have to prove you exported the goods with the intention to sell, which can only be proved if you leave without them? It did happen to me a few years back when I got some equipment stolen while there and on exit, I had to pay the tax I would have paid on exit, but hadn't done. Your country have a 40% tariff? How does this work?
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My understanding is if you were traveling into the U.K. and got stopped without a carnet(or temporary import exemption) and they wanted to, they could make you put up a bond of 40% of the value of the equipment or impound it until you left(in which case you are then probably scrambling to try to rent gear). Either way that's costing you a lot more money than what the proper paperwork would have up-front.
 
Run&Gun said:
You're absolutely right about Risk vs. Reward. And I just don't see any reward there.

Getting stopped departing the US isn't what you really have to worry about, it's in the arrival country, where you have less leverage and options.

But we all know that people are generally gonna do what they want to do, regardless, and that is only reinforced when someone says that they have done whatever and nothing bad happened. One only has to look at all the posts on here about people buying unapproved media against the recommendation of the manufacturer and then "I lost my footage. My files are corrupted. How do I recover them?". Risk: Lost footage, ruined shoot, losing $$$ and possible client. Reward: Saving $ on a card. That's another no-brainer. The "reward" is easily eclipsed by the risk.
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Well the reward obviously is the time and money you save by not getting a carnet, which is the whole point of this topic.

Right. Which is why I've bought approved media, because there are documented cases of unapproved media failing and if the approved media fails, you can at least tell the client you bought the approved media. In the case of the off-brand batteries, I haven't seen actual documented cases of it damaging cameras, so for my C100s I have some off brand batteries. Actually, for my C100 Mark II, for whatever reason my Canon brand batteries mostly don't work with it anymore, so I've been forced to use only off-brand batteries.


Run&Gun said:
My understanding is if you were traveling into the U.K. and got stopped without a carnet(or temporary import exemption) and they wanted to, they could make you put up a bond of 40% of the value of the equipment or impound it until you left(in which case you are then probably scrambling to try to rent gear). Either way that's costing you a lot more money than what the proper paperwork would have up-front.
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But have you heard of anyone ever paying the 40%?

I believe all you need to prove you're not trying to smuggle (if that's the right term) are receipts to show you purchased the equipment in your home country. I've heard of some people bringing recepits with them, but in this day and age most people will have Internet access to all of their receipts, so it shouldn't be too difficult to prove you've bought the equipment in your home country.

Or to quote Key, "But is it against the law?"

 
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I've paid bonds in several countries. You get the money back when you return. It's a PITA as usually they go through every single piece of equipment. A carnet is a much better option if it's available. When it's not, I do duplicate customs list as this will allow me to get my kit back home, even if I have to pay a bond at my destination.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
I believe all you need to prove you're not trying to smuggle (if that's the right term) are receipts to show you purchased the equipment in your home country. I've heard of some people bringing recepits with them, but in this day and age most people will have Internet access to all of their receipts, so it shouldn't be too difficult to prove you've bought the equipment in your home country.
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Doesn't matter if you can prove you bought it in the US(or whatever country you are from), they want to make sure that you're not coming in and selling it in their country in some "back room" deal and taxes aren't being paid on that. It's all about money. That's why you get your bond back(if you had to go that route) when you leave the country with all of the gear that you came in with. If not, they keep the money or the portion to cover what isn't leaving to "cover the taxes".
 
Exactly. It's not a proof of ownership receipt, it's more like a round trip ticket for your gear- it came in, and it went back out (just like some countries won't let you leave immigration arrivals at the airport without proof of a hotel reservation and address).
And yes, I've heard of people (a friend of a friend) who had his gear impounded, could not get gear rented in time, and lost the shoot...
 
UPDATE FROM THE OP (Ned):

I am back from the trip and here's what I found: You really should get a Carnet to enter at Heathrow. If you are doing a shoot for a deep pocket client, and you suggest they get a Carnet and they refuse, then they are responsible for the repercussions. As I mentioned, this was a freebie 8 day shoot for my son, one that could not be delayed because 14 affluent American cyclists were involved. I did not want to disappoint and I am glad I got the Carnet as you will learn below.

I went to the red door at Heathtrow's customs, the agent did his certification. I then asked, "Did I really need to have a Carnet to get in the UK? Would the Her Majesty Revenue & Customs Form that I have here have sufficed?" His answer boiled down to: "Depends who is on duty." In sum, if you don't want to risk not being allowed in, get a Carnet. I valued the gear low at $17K so I was charged the Carnet minimum of $424. I see no reason to value used gear too high, that would make the cost of the Carnet higher for no reason. And how do they know the value of our gear? Would they have a B&H catalog there?

When I re-entered the US they were so busy and overworked they just waived me through, even though I had a large ENG camera on a shoulder strap, I looked like a network news guy.

Lastly, I researched what are the current rules on the lithium battery issue. I use Anton Bauers with a meter window. By draining them to less than 1/3rd power I was able to check them in baggage according to the rules, so drain your batts before packing and they can't hassle you. My carry on camera I had a battery of full power but that's OK because it isn't checked and it is on the camera.

2nd Lastly, what saved me on excess baggage charges for United's international flights is I have a bona fide, official looking, laminated Chicago Police Department Press Pass. Wow, the overage each way went down from $580 to $280 for a total savings of $600!!!!! That's a lot when you can't bill it to a client. So if you have any friend or distant cousin who works at a station or respectable media outlet, get them to write you a letter to your local PD and get yourself a press pass for the airlines' media discount.

3rd Lastly, if you do get a Carnet you need to go to the airport and get it certified before departure, but this must be done on the day of departure with a boarding pass! I thought I would be efficient and went the day before but ran into a rule stickler. So be forewarned! You can't just go to the ticket counter, you have to find the customs office first, so add another hour for that.

Oh, one more thing. I had to move soooo fast, jumping out of a van over 100 times to film the cyclists, I had no time for the tripod, a heavy Sachtler 20. The camera is too heavy for a monopod. In sum, I wish I had brought a Steady Bag because I found myself kneeling a lot with the camera on the pavement. Fast bikes look cool from low, I told them to always barely miss me. I am glad I brought an adult size servo zoom lens, no way I could have done this with still lenses. Also, it was the hottest summer since 1976, making it harder but I got telephoto heat shimmers. I used my Osmo out of the back of the van with the doors open and out the side passenger window. Apparently in Europe they make a big deal about not opening the sliding doors, big ticket, which was unfortunate. But the Osmo took great shots and took the bumps out of even cobble stone roads.

See ya,

Ned

P.S. Hey Grove Chuck! It's very hard to retire from this biz, I have tried several times, sometimes I can go a couple of months without shooting but certain clients, old friends mainly, want to get the band back together one more time. I am trying to shoot or produce no more than 3 or 4 days a month, but some clients just keep throwing more $ at me. I retired because I didn't want to pay for a 4K upgrade, spend $2-3K for a new website, etc. I am acting like a crewing service quite a bit, I get a lot of calls that I don't want and pass the producing ones on for a commission or shooting jobs for an upscale restaurant gift card. Also, I just see the prices we're able to charge going down over the years, so I said F**k It. However, I'm fortunate that I made my money when the field was not so crowded and learned to save and invest. I am trying to do videos only for small, local charities for free. Trying to repay for all the damage I did to the world by working for evil Fortune 100s by helping them sell their s**t. I will now use my super powers for the good side. I do a lot of volunteering now and we're just trying to enjoy ourselves. It is so freeing to be done with the stress of production, deadlines, running down my money. I learned I was addicted to being busy. And yes, I just got on Medicare which saves me $8K a year! Working a fast moving documentary in the heatwaves of England & France last week, the hottest since 1976, at 65 years old, I easily could have croaked, even though I am in great shape. Keep in touch. PM me sometime.
 
Hey Ned,
Good to see your update and to find you healthy.

Note to myself: Your point about saving money towards retirement (howsoever far it might be) is very valid though people forget it. At times we forget that we are also running a business and get into the new gear syndrome.

Cheers,
Sabyasachi

nedcam said:
UPDATE FROM THE OP (Ned):

I am back from the trip and here's what I found: You really should get a Carnet to enter at Heathrow. If you are doing a shoot for a deep pocket client, and you suggest they get a Carnet and they refuse, then they are responsible for the repercussions. As I mentioned, this was a freebie 8 day shoot for my son, one that could not be delayed because 14 affluent American cyclists were involved. I did not want to disappoint and I am glad I got the Carnet as you will learn below.

I went to the red door at Heathtrow's customs, the agent did his certification. I then asked, "Did I really need to have a Carnet to get in the UK? Would the Her Majesty Revenue & Customs Form that I have here have sufficed?" His answer boiled down to: "Depends who is on duty." In sum, if you don't want to risk not being allowed in, get a Carnet. I valued the gear low at $17K so I was charged the Carnet minimum of $424. I see no reason to value used gear too high, that would make the cost of the Carnet higher for no reason. And how do they know the value of our gear? Would they have a B&H catalog there?

When I re-entered the US they were so busy and overworked they just waived me through, even though I had a large ENG camera on a shoulder strap, I looked like a network news guy.

Lastly, I researched what are the current rules on the lithium battery issue. I use Anton Bauers with a meter window. By draining them to less than 1/3rd power I was able to check them in baggage according to the rules, so drain your batts before packing and they can't hassle you. My carry on camera I had a battery of full power but that's OK because it isn't checked and it is on the camera.

2nd Lastly, what saved me on excess baggage charges for United's international flights is I have a bona fide, official looking, laminated Chicago Police Department Press Pass. Wow, the overage each way went down from $580 to $280 for a total savings of $600!!!!! That's a lot when you can't bill it to a client. So if you have any friend or distant cousin who works at a station or respectable media outlet, get them to write you a letter to your local PD and get yourself a press pass for the airlines' media discount.

3rd Lastly, if you do get a Carnet you need to go to the airport and get it certified before departure, but this must be done on the day of departure with a boarding pass! I thought I would be efficient and went the day before but ran into a rule stickler. So be forewarned! You can't just go to the ticket counter, you have to find the customs office first, so add another hour for that.

Oh, one more thing. I had to move soooo fast, jumping out of a van over 100 times to film the cyclists, I had no time for the tripod, a heavy Sachtler 20. The camera is too heavy for a monopod. In sum, I wish I had brought a Steady Bag because I found myself kneeling a lot with the camera on the pavement. Fast bikes look cool from low, I told them to always barely miss me. I am glad I brought an adult size servo zoom lens, no way I could have done this with still lenses. Also, it was the hottest summer since 1976, making it harder but I got telephoto heat shimmers. I used my Osmo out of the back of the van with the doors open and out the side passenger window. Apparently in Europe they make a big deal about not opening the sliding doors, big ticket, which was unfortunate. But the Osmo took great shots and took the bumps out of even cobble stone roads.

See ya,

Ned

P.S. Hey Grove Chuck! It's very hard to retire from this biz, I have tried several times, sometimes I can go a couple of months without shooting but certain clients, old friends mainly, want to get the band back together one more time. I am trying to shoot or produce no more than 3 or 4 days a month, but some clients just keep throwing more $ at me. I retired because I didn't want to pay for a 4K upgrade, spend $2-3K for a new website, etc. I am acting like a crewing service quite a bit, I get a lot of calls that I don't want and pass the producing ones on for a commission or shooting jobs for an upscale restaurant gift card. Also, I just see the prices we're able to charge going down over the years, so I said F**k It. However, I'm fortunate that I made my money when the field was not so crowded and learned to save and invest. I am trying to do videos only for small, local charities for free. Trying to repay for all the damage I did to the world by working for evil Fortune 100s by helping them sell their s**t. I will now use my super powers for the good side. I do a lot of volunteering now and we're just trying to enjoy ourselves. It is so freeing to be done with the stress of production, deadlines, running down my money. I learned I was addicted to being busy. And yes, I just got on Medicare which saves me $8K a year! Working a fast moving documentary in the heatwaves of England & France last week, the hottest since 1976, at 65 years old, I easily could have croaked, even though I am in great shape. Keep in touch. PM me sometime.
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Welcome back, Ned! Glad the carnet (and the police ID) worked out!

Yeah, a Steady Bag would've been perfect... I have family in London, sounds brutal!

You gonna cut the cycling vid? Would love to see it!

Will be in touch, Mr. RetiredCam*...

(*weren't you going to do a retired shooter blog or something?)
 
I now see why I am retired. That shoot, in that heat, at that speed, was a brutal ball buster, even for a 25 year old shooter. The heat wave was so intense the black plastic of the camera burned my right cheek, so I started to cover it with a white towel. Now I just want to do 2 or 3 days a month, tops, of easy corporate talking heads!

The cycling video will be "OK", I'm sure my son and his customers will love it, but it was how not to do it. I did not know anything about how bike races or rallies are organized, I was squeezed into their support van, which stops to repair tires, pick up the fatigued or injured, and create a water stop of refreshments. I saw gorgeous countryside with perfect light, yet I was not allowed to stop and shoot. In fact, this reminded me of filming police raids, where the vehicle lurches to a stop and everyone instantly jumps out and I have to be rolling before my feet touch the ground. That's why the tripod was useless. In sum, the best way to do this is to rent a car and driver and constantly leap frog the cyclists, pick out the backgrounds, as I have done with marathons, perhaps rent a motorcyclist for a day and use the Osmo. Also, having pro level walkie talkies would be smart since there is a terrible delay in using cell phones, which is what we all do nowadays. I did get some high quality shots with the ENG camera using the servo tele zoom because when they came straight at me, that was some great shooting. Also, the Europeans have very large lettering on their license plates so I could practice my rack focusing as they came at me so I would be prepared for when the cyclists arrived. In other words, I missed having any control. I wish I could have done perpendicular shots with great scenery in the background.

AND GROVECHUCK, I did have an idea as to starting a blog or site regarding life after shooting, actually, I wanted it to be Tricks of the Trade, a free site where experienced cameramen could pass onto young shooters what they know so they don't make the same mistakes. I came up with this idea years ago because I was always telling young up n comers the same tricks, such as always take the free shower cap from the hotel as a lens cover for rain and blowing sand, never let the bellman know it's video gear, etc.... I had always wanted my son to go into cinematography and I could pass on all this knowledge but alas...So I looked into it and since I would need to farm out all the web work, that would get expensive since I abhor that web stuff and coding. That's why I dropped the idea. It's another reason I decided to retire: To update my present dated looking website would cost $2K or more, so starting an entirely new one would be about $3K, plus I don't want to dedicate the time. And as for the subject of Exit Strategy, retiring from 41 years as a freelancer, or micro business owner, I concluded that everyone's financial, health situation and spousal status is very unique, so it's hard to compare notes on how and when to retire. My plan is to do it on a glide, I will reduce my acceptance of work slowly until it is zilch in a year or so. That's why I have the monthly 2-3 day shooting cap now and the producing work is smaller projects but I have been doing a lot of free charity videos. The problem I have discovered about doing free charity videos is that everyone one of these organizations will have an annual gala and guess what, you are now their "video guy". So I have had to stop being an on-call free video vendor to some of them, they want way too much of your time. Forever. If they hear the word retired, their eyes light up.

All I can tell video folks is to save, save, save and learn to invest. Figure out what you'll need a year and multiply by 33, and then when you retire you can take out only 3% a year. Write that last sentence down. Memorize it. I can now right a book on this. The problem is: We get older much faster than we thought it will happen! Geeeze, I turned 65 last week. Can't believe it. But as a worrier and master Plan B'er I started to think and plan for life after media around ten years ago. I have a bulletin board where I have pinned my favorite fortune cookie predictions and blurbs from trade magazines. One of them is, regarding shooting, "You're only one major injury from retirement." That's so true. Whether you're financially ready or not. And every time I recovered from a bad injury that blurb on my board came to mind.

I always ask the young video folks if they miss VHS. Do that. Ask them that and watch their face. I do for kicks, Wow, did I make lots of money on dub orders. So technological advances aren't good, profit wise, for video vendors, it just makes prices lower for the end users since more people can shoot or DIY. THAT'S why I retired. I produced California's food stamp reform videos, they ordered 9000 VHS copies and I marked each one up $3, for a profit of $27,000. That took me 60 seconds of phone time with my duplicator. So that's another reason I retired, although I can work a lot if I want, if I go 4K, there's not the great money I'm used to. Oh well, don't get an old man ranting...this is about Carnets damn it!

Retirement is like a steady stream of Saturdays and Sundays: Constant household chores and projects forever! All the stuff you never had time for, your wife now wants them done. You will spend a lot more time at Home Depot. So if you think you'll have more time to do the things you want, well, they just shift to chores instead of running a business, shooting and editing. Although I bought a guitar and am picking up where I left off 40 years ago. I used to be good. I take several lessons a week now to try to get it back, but my fingers are now 40 years older.

Best,

Ned

P.S. When I started to fret about the carnet issue I started a parallel thread on the Sony FS7 forum where you will learn so more:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...one-Recently-Entered-England-Without-a-Carnet
 
nedcam said:
...So technological advances aren't good, profit wise, for video vendors, it just makes prices lower for the end users since more people can shoot or DIY.
Click to expand...

Yep. Been saying this for years. Technology is a double edged sword. It gives us incredible tools that are usually cheaper and easier to use than the previous generation and all of a sudden, specialists like us are no longer needed, because anyone can do what we used to do with six-figures worth of gear, but with their iPhone. For free...
 
UPDATE FROM OP (Ned):

One of the posters said I was suppose to have had the carnet certified upon my re-rentry, which I was too tired to remember to do. So I called my carnet issuing company and they said: YES, ONE IS SUPPOSE TO GET THEIR CARNET STAMPED UPON RETURN TO THE US. This took 3 hours out of my life yesterday, I had to shlep all the gear to the customs office at O'hare. So remember that!
 
There is someone over on REDUser who didn't get their carnet stamped upon re-entry to the US(from Canada) and received a bill in excess of $23,000 from Canada, through the carnet service. And apparently they have sold/no longer have a lot of the gear that was on the carnet, including the camera, so they can't just go back to Customs and show them the gear.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...-Fee-of-23-000
 
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