C300: Has Anyone RECENTLY Gone to England Without a Carnet?

nedcam

nedcam

Well-known member
I ask this question because I have been dragged out of my idyllic retirement to go to London and Paris to film a bicycle race, leaving on Monday. I'm bringing the minimum of gear (ENG camera, Osmo, Tripod...) listed for less than $20K, and the company I am dealing with for the carnet, a very large carnet company, is dragging this out and may be over the $500 pain threshold I have set. I need a Plan B.

I am not going to be reimbursed for the carnet's cost. Before retiring from my DP career in March 2017 I did extensive international traveling for four decades and I'd say we had carnets only about 25% of the time. Usually when a Fortune 100 or network was paying.

So, has anyone had any RECENT experience landing at Heathrow airport WITHOUT A CARNET, but with professionally looking gear, and NOT had a problem going through customs?

Thanks,

Ned
 
I was just there in April on a video travel job (by way of Germany first) and I don’t think we had a carnet (I had to google that word). Three of us all with checked bags of video gear and carryons of two Sony FS-7s and a Sony FS-5 + lenses. I can double check with the production company tomorrow but I certainly didn’t do anything besides check my bags and go through security.
 
I'm pretty much done with Carnets unless traveling with a serious amount of gear. The last two times to Morocco we did them and they were a complete PITA and nobody here or there cared about them. Most of the time we have to hunt down a customs inspector or military police, depending on the country and beg them to sign and stamp the stupid things. For a camera and a tripod, I wouldn't bother, especially to UK. For a gear pac, switcher and multiple cameras, I might. My experience with Carnets has been that they are nothing but an expensive nuisance. I went to Brazil last year without one and had no issues here or there.
 
Thanks guys. If this carnet company wants more than $500 I won't get a carnet and just try to charm my way through.

This is a freebie I am doing to help my son, who is starting his own business of creating challenge events to raise money for charity. This is a group of bikers, not racing necessarily (thank God), I just termed it as such for abbreviation. So all money out on my part will not be reimbursed and it's getting near $4000, which would include a $500 carnet.

Their event culminates at the end of the Tour de France, which I have to sneak in without a press pass. The size of a full size ENG camera is a dead give away so I may need to buy stock footage later.

I'll let you know in a couple of weeks what happened.

Best,

Ned
 
Confirmed with the production company, we did not have a carnet. Traveled to Berlin, then London, then NYC no problems, although we only had one pelican case and packed everything else in soft-shell roller bags, etc. so your mileage may vary if you have a fully kitted out ENG camera and other big production looking items. I'd say we had 3 oversize luggage items and about 4 other "normal luggage" sized luggage with gear.
 
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I just traveled to China, Japan, and England without a Carnet. I usually travel with a C300ii in a Pelican, bag with lenses, and a small light kit.
 
OK OK OK I Bought the carnet, it was the minimum of $424. Great customer service. I just don't want to risk being stopped or turned back, that would be a big disappointment to my son. Besides, I get to write off a trip to jolly old England and France.

The UK is a carnet country. If British customs wanted to be bastards they could charge me 40% of the value. So although several local cameramen and soundmen have told me they have waltzed through Heathrow, I don't want to risk it. However, I will see if they even ASK me for it as I go through customs there.

About 30 years ago in Buenos Aires they confiscated all my gear at customs at the airport, they held it for me for a week but would not let me use it in their country. So I lost the first day of the shoot having to find a rental house and then shoot with substandard gear, 16mm in those days. Our fixer told us to give the agent $50, that he was fishing for a bribe, but my client thought we were being set up for an anti-American incident. They were still pissed we supported their military junta.

The company that I dealt with which helped me by getting me the minimum cost is:

https://www.atacarnet.com

I highly recommend them. But I'm pissed I'm out the money.

Best regards from the land of no alarm clocks: Retirement!

Ned
 
Damn Ned, forget the carnet- you're retired?!?
How's that going??? (new thread?) I thought you fell down a hole somewhere...
Don't forget to bring your Medicare card! :happy:
 
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They could charge you 40% of the value? Eh? The point of a carnet is that it is proof you are temporarily importing an item into the country, and not selling it there. So the duty would be 2.5% of the evidentiary value of the camera, plus 20% VAT. If you export the camera at the end of the period, you can claim the VAT back. No idea where 40% camera from. The only slight issue is the 2.5% rate assumes the camera cannot record from an external source - video recorders are rated at 4%. It's always been that way since VHS was invented! Often camera models are different here - like the Panasonic 300 camera was in the rest of the world, it was a 301 here, and had no input socket. Other cameras have been like this - JVC 5000, was 5001 etc.

I suppose the reason so many people don't bother comes down to the security blanket of a carnet - but with added complications when it's not needed, and you want them to sign things. I do know if I was coming your way, I'd probably go for one because I find the getting into the US the worst immigration service in the world. TSA plus the passport and immigration make foreigners feel very intimidated and unwelcome. My colleagues make me shut up, stay silent and only speak when spoken to. US is nearly beaten by Germany - who also seem to be permanently grumpy and bad tempered. We did the channel tunnel recently and even that is now horrible, and at the moment we're still supposed to be unhindered by travel in the EU - rubbish!
 
Traveled all over the world for 10 years never had a problem, until I shot in Toronto and got pulled aside going through Toronto security on the way back. They were very close to charging me the 40% penalty but ended up letting me go. Next trip was to Italy and I got the Carne, and as everyone said, its a huge pain in the ass. Probably better that you got one though.
 
Toronto seems pretty low-key, especially at Billy Bishop. Was it at Pearson? Somewhere else?
 
Pearson.. guy was not messing around.. Made me sweat it out for a bit, chewed me out for being stupid enough to travel without a carne, and said I caught him on a good day.
 
What's the worst that can happen? You have to turn around? Delay your flight and ship the gear seperately? I've heard about people being threatened to pay heavy taxes on the equipment, but I've never actually heard of anyone ever paying it.
 
I don't understand why some people take such a cavalier attitude towards traveling to foreign countries with gear on paying jobs when they know there is a process to follow(carnet, etc.) and possible (severe) penalties if they don't. There are lots of times I subscribe to the "Better to ask for forgiveness than permission" school of thought, but not in this case and generally not when dealing with government agencies period.


Eric Coughlin said:
What's the worst that can happen? You have to turn around? Delay your flight and ship the gear seperately? I've heard about people being threatened to pay heavy taxes on the equipment, but I've never actually heard of anyone ever paying it.
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And how in the heck do you explain that to a paying client? "Carnet? Yeah, I knew I was supposed to have one, but I thought I was slick enough to get away with not having one. Sorry we can't shoot, because they impounded my equipment, but hey, I'll know next time. What do you mean there won't be a next time? What? You're not paying me for this trip, either?"
 
Run&Gun said:
I don't understand why some people take such a cavalier attitude towards traveling to foreign countries with gear on paying jobs when they know there is a process to follow(carnet, etc.) and possible (severe) penalties if they don't. There are lots of times I subscribe to the "Better to ask for forgiveness than permission" school of thought, but not in this case and generally not when dealing with government agencies period.





And how in the heck do you explain that to a paying client? "Carnet? Yeah, I knew I was supposed to have one, but I thought I was slick enough to get away with not having one. Sorry we can't shoot, because they impounded my equipment, but hey, I'll know next time. What do you mean there won't be a next time? What? You're not paying me for this trip, either?"
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On my last trip to Brazil, I actually wanted to do a Carnet and the client requested that we NOT get a Carnet so not a problem for that job.
 
Run&Gun said:
And how in the heck do you explain that to a paying client? "Carnet? Yeah, I knew I was supposed to have one, but I thought I was slick enough to get away with not having one. Sorry we can't shoot, because they impounded my equipment, but hey, I'll know next time. What do you mean there won't be a next time? What? You're not paying me for this trip, either?"
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Not all shoots are so rigid. Last time I flew overseas with gear for a paid shoot, it was Rome, Italy, and I was also producing the shoot for my client. The shoot was interviews and b-roll with a subject who was living in Rome for a few months, so I had about a three month window with which to film him. So, if my shoot had been delayed by a day, a week, a month, etc., due to lacking a carnet, it would have had no impact on the shoot and my client wouldn't have cared one bit since I was the one scheduling everything and the final edit I was doing wasn't due for another few months or so.

With that said, I didn't have any issues with customs for going to Rome.

Now sure, if you cannot afford delays, the client is paying for a carnet, and you think not having a carnet has a reasonable chance of making it so you can't make it to the shoot, then get a carnet. Depends on the situation.
 
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So you got away without having a carnet. Good for you. The world is full of people that get away with all kinds of things, until they don't. What happens next time when you don't "get away" with it and you don't have extra days or weeks of time to spare? I guess networks just don't F around and take chances on the type of stuff that could completely jeopardize a shoot and easily be avoided, because time is of the essence, interviews and shoots have usually already been scheduled and you're in and out. About two weeks ago one of my friends asked if I could take his place on a shoot in England that would have been last weekend and asked if I was cool shooting with his gear, because the carnet had already been done. He's spent his career traveling around the globe for the nets. If he does a carnet, there's probably a good reason why.
 
Not sure what your point is. I already said get a carnet if you need one. Don't think we're disagreeing here. I wasn't suggesting avoiding a carnet on a rigidly scheduled network shoot.

I was just saying not every shoot needs one, as in the case of my shoot where if I got turned back, it wouldn't have been a big deal and I could have simply gone another day. That client wouldn't have paid for a carnet, and it would have been a waste of money to have gotten it. I say, take risks to save money when the worst case scenario (getting delayed) is not detrimental to the shoot.

I was also suggesting earlier that I wonder how much these things are really worth worrying about considering all I've ever heard is stories of people sweating, but have never heard of stories where people actually weren't allowed on the flight or had to end up paying hefty fines. It's kind of like using off-brand batteries in cameras; people speak theoretically of off-brand batteries destroying your camera, but never have actual cases to backup their worries. I'm all for taking heed to justifiable and documented risks, but the risk margin seems pretty low when of the thousands of people on DVXuser, other forums, friends, co-workers, etc., you've never heard of such cases.

If you have stories you've heard of people getting in significant trouble as a result of not having a carnet, feel free to share.


At the end of the day, you're always going to take risks in this business. I almost always bring a backup camera on my shoots, but if I was really paranoid, I'd always bring a backup to my backup. However, at a certain point, you're going too far to avoid risks. Now your backups are at risk of damage and theft. Carnets cost money and if the client isn't paying for it, well, you run a business, so you take into account if the cost is worth the reduction of risk. So, in general you weigh the risks with the positives and negatives of taking steps to avoid those risks, and act accordingly. There is certainly a such thing as going too far to avoid risks, such that you run yourself out of business from the cost of avoiding risks.
 
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How does a penalty work? Surely it can only if you commit an offence? Do they not have to prove you exported the goods with the intention to sell, which can only be proved if you leave without them? It did happen to me a few years back when I got some equipment stolen while there and on exit, I had to pay the tax I would have paid on exit, but hadn't done. Your country have a 40% tariff? How does this work?
 
You're absolutely right about Risk vs. Reward. And I just don't see any reward there.

Getting stopped departing the US isn't what you really have to worry about, it's in the arrival country, where you have less leverage and options.

But we all know that people are generally gonna do what they want to do, regardless, and that is only reinforced when someone says that they have done whatever and nothing bad happened. One only has to look at all the posts on here about people buying unapproved media against the recommendation of the manufacturer and then "I lost my footage. My files are corrupted. How do I recover them?". Risk: Lost footage, ruined shoot, losing $$$ and possible client. Reward: Saving $ on a card. That's another no-brainer. The "reward" is easily eclipsed by the risk.
 
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