Hardest Thing About Making Your First Film?

Re: Hardest Thing About Making Your First Film?

Jeez, I'm going to print that out and tape above my friggin desk. You can't expect to avoid all those mistakes the first time around. But you can mitigate them with good prep, and the right attitude. Excellent post.
 
Re: Hardest Thing About Making Your First Film?

I agree. That was exceptional advice. Very much what I was looking for. There's only one difference between your comments and my project. My script really is great!

:)
 
J_Barnes said:
2. Overconfidence in the material. The truth is that everyone’s first film stinks, but at the time we think it’s the greatest story since the bible. We all think what we’ve written or developed is revolutionary, inspiring, landmark and compelling but it rarely proves to be anything other then a mediocre first film.

This overconfidence in the material causes us to generally reject constructive criticism, artistic suggestions and collaborative interpretations as we position ourselves as the great defenders of our perfect script. In protecting our idea, we usually hamper it’s development by rejecting ideas that might genuinely improve the work as a whole.
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This is a very interesting point and one I think about often. Being able to accept constructive criticism. The problem is, if you can't *see* someone else's point, if you can't *understand* it, it doesn't matter if it's a better idea or not. Because for almost all choices to work, you have to understand them, you have to believe in them. So to just give in to an idea because everybody says it's better, probably won't work, since you don't grasp how it helps your story, and thusly cannot implement it correctly. I know this sounds weird, but I'd rather someone execute a bad idea they're passionate about, then try a better idea that they don't understand.
 
This is a really great thread. It even diverged to deal with a very specific practical problem midway through, then reconnected to the original point and delivered some really solid wisdom. For what it's worth I agree entirely with Barry and J. Barnes' analyses.
 
My first film - Was all about compromise. To wit:

I had a dog in the film. Had to scrap that at the last moment and come up with a new scenario.

I had 2 dolly+crane shots. After seeing what was involved in getting those shots the way that I wanted them in a rehearsal, I scrapped them and re-did the shots.

On the day of the shoot, my lead actor could not make it to the set due to a paying gig needing them for some re-shoots. After shooting around them and finally getting the word that they would indeed not make it to the set, I grabbed a crew member and had them fill in the role.

The result:

The lack of the dog and the re-designed shots were actually better then what my first design was.

The crew member turned actor was actually much better suited to the role and performed better then the SAG actor that I had lined up for the gig.

Is it a good film? Everyone that has seen it enjoyed it and laughed at all of the right spots. This includes people that do not know me nor had any idea I was involved in the film.

Am I satisfied? No. I wish I could have done a lot of things better in the film. Hence, the next film that is in development now :)

My advice to a first time film maker:

Be prepared. Have backups for ALL gear that you can reasonably have.
Rehearse your crew. Especially if it's their first time.
Have lots of food on the set and serve at least 1 hot meal.
Be flexable. Ask yourself: What do I have to lose?
Enjoy yourself. It's supposed to be fun IMO.
 
I went to a forum last night on shooting in HD, and the head of Guardian Entertainment was one of the panelists. He offered a great piece of advice on filmmaking in general, budgeting in particular:

"Every nickel you spend should be visible on the screen. Except craft services -- feed your cast and crew well and they will work a lot harder for you."

I agree -- and essentially, if they are working harder for you, then every nickel you spend on craft services will, indirectly, show up on the screen as well.

(I mention this because in scanning this thread I see that many people have mentioned feeding your crew. Over the course of all the shoots I've managed in the last year, I've learned that this detail can not be overlooked...)

As for the point that every nickel you spend should be visible on the screen, that is a great way to frame many of the creative decisions you will have to make, because, unfortunately, you will always have a tug of war between creative aspirations and budgetary constraints. So, when you are trying to make those difficult decisions, frame your compromise in terms of "Will I see that nickel on the screen? Is this expenditure essential to telling my story?"

Another great point that he made, and that the other panelists agreed with, was the importance of having an experienced crew. I must second that emotion -- my partner and I started off with the rather lofty goal of forming our own crew -- a "possee" if you will -- and we would all learn together as we went along, and we would, in the long run, have a tight, close, reliable team. That approach has had some benefits, but I think it has also made things harder on us in some ways. As one of last night's panelists noted, "Without an experienced crew, you won't be able to pull off your great ideas."

So, it definitely pays to have at least a few experienced people around, particularly in the areas of sound and camera. When my partner and I finally decided to hire some folks who were more experienced than us, it really paid off -- we can see those nickels in the final product.

Of course, most people on this board are here because they have the DVX and they want to shoot and, ultimately, they want to DP. If you want to DP, or DP and direct, but you aren't very experienced, get a second camera person who has more experience than you and an AD who has more experience than you, and let them guide you -- solicit and take their advice and guidance.

OK, just some random thoughts -- I got really psyched after the forum last night, and have been going over all these things in my mind ever since... :)
 
My crew was totally non-experienced. What I did was this:

I spent 2 days rehearsing the setups with the DP and the sound guy / boom operator. I did an additional day training my sound guy.

I did a full crew rehearsal where we went through every setup.

On the day of the shoot, things went very smooth. It can be done.
 
There has been some great insight into first features and how hard it is on this thred. it's interesting to see what people value and what their experiences have been.

One thing that I keep in mind going into my first feature and even now going into my second is that it's true that it's hard and that you should be preppared and take criticism, but at one point you have to trust yourself to just go and do it. Good bad or indifferent.

Of course you need to put your best foot forward which doesn't mean you have to be the best, becaue that's subjective anyway. Too many people give their time to help out so don't waist it.

On the positive side, once you've jumped the first-feature hurdle you never have to go back over it again. That will feel like a breath of fresh air one of these days.

thanks for listening.
 
i have a theory(pardon my spelling, i live in mexico) alot of first time directors make really good films, so i ask why?! cause they have a DP that has ALOT of experience and i think the DP or someone else is on the set and doesnt let the first time director screw up, it kinda make sense, just look at your first shorts, are they as good as what you did 4 shorts later? would your short films turned out better if you had a 20 year veteran helping you? of course, but we or at least me dont have veterans on our side.
i screwed up my first shorts and i still do, but i learn something new everytime i direct something.
and to give mi 2 cents on the subject of this thread, its your first film, you have never done it before, its like riding a bike, you can read how to ride a bike, but then you get on the bike and you fall down, the more you ride the bike the more you start doing stunts on the bike, taking more chances, getting better at riding a bike and that sums up mi experience in directing, hope this helps :D
 
The reason it's difficult is because the overwhelming majority of people who do it, rush into it *long* before they're actually ready. *The easy accessibility of equipment, and assistance, has people thinking "I can make a movie!" *Well, yes, they can, but probably not a good one...

For some reason people seem to think that movies are not as difficult to make as other works of art.

For example, how many people here really, truly think that in order to make a painting, all they need to do is buy some brushes and some paints, and have "a really good idea"? *Ain't gonna happen. *Unless you're that one in a million prodigy, your first painting is likely to be horrible. *And that's where the learning process starts.

How about music? *How many people think "why, this music thing can't be all that hard, let me pick up a guitar, and I have ProTools to edit with, and my own CD Burner... I'll just make my first album this weekend and I'll be a millionaire!" *Um... this is typically not the path to a successful recording career, y'know?

Many first-timers seem to think that a lifetime of watching movies somehow prepares them to make their own "epic". *As if somehow a lifetime of listening to music (and playing "air guitar") somehow makes someone qualified to release their own triple-platinum album. *Doesn't happen. *It takes years and years and years of practice and study, and playing the guitar until your fingers bleed, before that first album comes even remotely into the field of possibility.

And so it is with movies, except a hundredfold, because unlike the other disciplines, movies rely not just on the artist himself/herself, but also on the cooperation of others (from several, to several dozen, others). *Compound the enormous difficulty of coming up with a truly artistic expression, by the difficulties of organizing and managing a cast and crew of dozens of disparate personalities, as well as fundraising and financing, and it should become apparent that filmmaking is the *hardest* of the arts to succeed at.

It is also, apparently, the one with the strongest draw (along with the performing arts). *I don't meet many aspiring painters, or many aspiring sculptors, but it seems like everyone is an aspiring director, or actor, or singer.

Making a "movie" is not all that difficult, if you define a "movie" as 90 minutes of footage. *Making a watchable movie, one that affects people and makes them feel emotion and cry and cheer and applaud, well, that's a whole different story. *It's an extremely difficult task, and rarely accomplished by first-timers.

And even the first-timers who do succeed are not overnight successes. *Robert Rodriguez had made dozens, if not hundreds, of short films (which were winning awards at festivals across the country), gotten himself published as a comic strip artist, and enrolled in the University of Texas at Austin film school before he ever attempted "El Mariachi". * As for "Garden State", I don't know Zach Braff's story, but he's got a film degree from Northwestern University and has been professionally acting for 15 years before attempting his first film. *I'm sure he did plenty of homework and studied the art of storytelling thoroughly, as well as learning an incredible amount from interning and studying how the "pro's" do it, before attempting it himself.

The world is full of "overnight successes", but a quick look at any of their backstories will usually reveal that they spent a good 10 or 12 years trying before they met with "overnight success". *So it can certainly be done, but unless you're the one in a million prodigy, the one who plays the piano by ear etc., you'll have to do an intense amount of homework before you'll be skilled enough to create a good film.
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Yes, Barry, YES!
 
my first short fiction

my first short fiction

I feel much better after reading the posts. I just shot my first fiction and it seems utterly useless after the edit. I have been trying to motivate myself to re-edit but went into depression. However if I look at it as a project and not a masterpiece of a lifetime then things seem brighter... I have learnt a lot from this experience, even if it is a failure hopefuly I will not make the same mistakes next time. Feels good to know that everyone goes through the 'first film anxiety'.
 
Wow!

I feel like garbage after reading these posts!

I pay my bills as a school teacher and you all sound like the districts with your innate talent arguments and decades of experience arguments; why even try?
Where is the hope for the bright eyed dreamer that wants to create art? Sure it's alright to be a realist and realize that it takes work to be a good filmmaker, but it takes work to be good at anything. This is exactly why our children can't wait to drop out and why some filmmakers give up before they even try.

IMHO, not that it has any value what so ever, the hardest thing about making a first feature is the paralyzing fear and doubt partially bred by the fact that people whose opinions you have come to respect truly believe that the first of anything by anyone will be inherently awful (yes, that is exactly what you all said, read your posts again like a noob trying to find his way). First, you have to know yourself, then your story, then your market, and when you do, unequivocally and with neolithic confidence, then and only then do you begin assembling a team to bring that vision to life... and fear and doubt will only be fuel for your creative fires (esoteric, I know, but true- and as a musician with recordings and a published author, applicable to other disciplines also).

Now, to clarify a few things, regardless of what anyone thinks I am secure in what I want to do and how I want to do it. I marvel at the talent of others but believe in my vision of the world and strive to perfect it and deliver it. I don't really care about critics, or accolades, I just care about telling good stories.

I think that forums like this would be great if they concentrated on truly developing a director's personal style even if it is done by assimilating an amalgamation of other's best qualities, rather than why you're gonna suck. Who knows how many people you have run off with the same old "look to your left and right, these people won't be here" blah blah blah rhetoric... I mean who wants to read that the hardest thing about making a first feature is the fact that you're a no talent noobie choad, there's enough of that already!
 
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J_Barnes said:
The problem is that I don’t believe there is any one specific point where every first-time filmmaker fails. I don’t think there is any one specific thing that trips up first time directors. I think there are certainly a few hazards that tend to be more common then others, but that doesn’t mean that avoiding them results in a successful picture.

Here’s a couple of assumptions that can be assumed to be general hazards for first time filmmakers. (Obviously, every first time filmmaker comes from a different set of experience, talent and luck, so nothing’s universally challenging).

1. Lack of experience. Reading all the books in the world will still prove you unprepared for certain situations and problems. Unfortunately, there are just some things that must be learned as they’re encountered, so no amount of study will lessen the hard knocks you’ve got to take. The reason why so many second films exceed the first efforts is because the director/filmmaker has practical experience in the application of his education.

In some sense, you’ve got to be shot at before you can learn to shoot back.

2. Overconfidence in the material. The truth is that everyone’s first film stinks, but at the time we think it’s the greatest story since the bible. We all think what we’ve written or developed is revolutionary, inspiring, landmark and compelling but it rarely proves to be anything other then a mediocre first film.

This overconfidence in the material causes us to generally reject constructive criticism, artistic suggestions and collaborative interpretations as we position ourselves as the great defenders of our perfect script. In protecting our idea, we usually hamper it’s development by rejecting ideas that might genuinely improve the work as a whole.

3. Unrealistic expectations. The movie in our head is not the one that ends up in the can. This leads to some serious depression in some cases as we try and reconcile our production with what we expected it to be. Coming into a project with very realistic expectations about the story, production, post and eventual public reception allows us a lot more freedom in the execution of that project, and greatly reduces the agony experienced when things aren’t going as well as you imagined them.

4. Bad budgeting/business. 99% of all first films are failed by their preproduction phase (that’s a guess, not a real stastic). In general first time filmmakers don’t afford their project the correct funding, time, equipment and personnel. Trimming the fat of a budget until it fits an unrealistic figure simply results in a production with no contingency. When something fails, as it always does, it becomes exponentially more difficult to make up your shortfalls in time and money.

5. Untested Professional relationships. In general, you’re working with people you’ve never worked on a production with before. Anyone who’s been on a long production of any kind knows that people’s personalities can change completely under extended duress, so the first time filmmaker is rarely prepared for the interpersonal conflicts and divergent personalities that can sink a production. People often lose friendships over difficult projects, and first time filmmakers tend to rely more on their friends for assistance then anyone else…leading to professional relationships that are often tainted by personal history. Its difficult to tell your best friend that he stinks as a camera operator and then expect him to still go to the pub with you.

On the opposite end, you also find yourself working with professionals that you have no personal relationship with, and you have to put faith in their professional abilities without a serious understanding of their abilities.

6. Lack of POST PRODUCTION experience. Editing a film makes you a better filmmaker. That’s just a fact. A person with a general lack of direct editing experience doesn’t have a practical understanding of location sound, continuity, shot flow, spatial relationships in the edit and pacing. Without significant editing experience, you invariably wind up over or undershooting your scenes, leaving you with either too few shots in the edit room…or an inflated budget due to your excessive coverage. Most films die in the edit room, not in the production stage, because it’s only in the edit that we finally see every little thing that we ruined or forgot in the process of shooting. It’s only in going through that agony a few times that we come to a strong understanding of what’s needed in production to ease your post work.

7. Lack of quality assistance. It’s hard to get good people to work for free. People that are good at what they do tend to get paid for it, even paid well in a lot of cases. If you don’t have the money to pay for a crew, you simply don’t have access to first tier production help. That will always reflect in your production efficiency and the final product.

8. Insistence on authorship. Now this is a tricky one, but it’s one that I firmly believe. The majority of first time filmmakers kill their film by consciously or subconsciously insisting on sole authorship of it’s creation. We get wrapped up in this idea of being the sole creative force on a film, so much so that we visualize the “A film by _______” credit appearing on a big screen at the premiere.

This insistence on sole authorship causes us to hamper our production by not considering creative input from others. Actor’s interpretations are rejected when not explicit in our script. A DP’s lighting and angle suggestions are not considered because they don’t match up with our mental storyboard and all helpful adjustments to our production are generally rejected so that they won’t taint our claim of ownership over its creation.

In summation: I think it’s mostly a lack of perspective that kills first productions. What it all boils down to is the fact that we dream up an idea of what the final product will look like and we typically don’t properly prepare or afford ourselves the resources to accomplish that final product. I think most first films stink because they have to…we learn more that way. It hashes out those that will persevere and those that will disappear.

The first film is really just the first step in our film education, so it will never meet with the expectations we apply to it.

(anyway, that's just my idea of why...)
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This is an excellent post!
 
I admit I haven't read all of the responses here, so if this has already been covered then my apologies.

But I think it comes down to money.

When you go to make your first feature, chances are you're doing it on an extremely small budget -- because it's hard to get a lot of money to make your movie before you've proven you can even make a movie in the first place.

When you have a small budget, you cut corners. You shoot on weekends and holidays, which drags the overall shooting schedule out to months, or even years. People get tired of it. YOU get tired of it. Then it becomes a burden to work on the thing at all.

Being inexperienced, you forget the one thing you need more than anything else -- EXPERIENCE. By that I mean experienced people -- DP, sound, lighting, acting, etc. You tend to choose people you like, or people who wow you with their enthusiasm -- instead of seasoned pros. You go for the kid fresh out of film school with his own camera package to DP for you, when you should be choosing the guy who has DP'd several features and who can show you a reel with the kind of style and quality and attention to detail that you're looking for.

You tend to cast actors who stand out in your mind, instead of digging until you find the really GREAT actors. The people you cast really wowed you in auditions, but when you get them up on the screen they seem two-dimensional and shallow.

And you forget to give it time. You get impatient if it takes the gaffer a couple of hours to setup the lighting, or if it takes the DP an hour or two to get the camera setups just right. You forget that beautiful images are an art -- and artists work in painstaking detail that you and I can't even begin to fathom. If you want a beautiful product, you have to give your artists time to do what they do best.

The one other mistake that I think people make when making their first feature is -- they use a script that's TOO good. Okay, I know that flies in the face of convention -- which says your script should be GREAT! But too often it's the filmmaker's pride and joy -- his 'baby' -- the script he's had in his mind or on paper for years. Face it -- you don't have the resources to do justice to your 'baby'. Set it aside and do something simple. Something easy. Something you don't have your whole heart and soul poured into.

Your first feature is practice. It's basic training. Do it well and you might even be able to sell it. But save your IMPORTANT scripts for the time when you've got your sea legs, learned your lessons, and know what you're doing.

Good luck!
 
4 years later I have something to say too :)

4 years later I have something to say too :)

Hardest thing about making your first film?

Knowing who will buy it or pay to see it.

This is the 21st Century, everything has changed.

If you were making your first movie even a few years ago, you had to worry about 'will it bomb in the theaters.'

You don't have to worry about that now. A low budget movie isn't going to make it into theaters.

Make a movie. Don't spend your life savings on it. Don't borrow money to shoot it. Make sure you will survive financially after making it.

Are you a filmmaker? Go ahead and make a movie :)
 
I have yet to make my first film. I work on other film maker's projects learning as much as I possibly can. From working on different projects I have learned one of the best thing that a film maker can do 1st time out or otherwise is be prepared for anything. Before working on some ones set, and seeing first hand how things should be done I truly believed that film making was completely an artistic undertaking. I know now that making a film is in some ways less artistic, and more business oriented. I believe many first time film makers make the mistake of believing its not work, when it is. Its setting a goal for each shooting day and getting it done. Yeah, of course there is an artistic side to film making, but when it comes crunch time you have to get the most out of what you have to work with. Things happen so you have to be able to roll with the punches and make decisions on the fly walking that fine line between give and take hoping not to sacrifice your true vision. After all time is money in most cases, and feeding your crew only goes so far. Keeping with a time line, and budget will help in many ways. I know from personal experience that I would rather work on projects that are scheduled out properly so that I can plan around it. People have lives outside of working on your 1st film so keeping to a consistent schedule that they can work around is favorable.


But thats just what I think.
 
Just sneak premiered my first feature which I wrote and directed. It came out good. Who woulda thunk it?

Directing this low budget feature was the greatest single test of my artistic, physical, social, financial, and organizational resources. I am not a flag waver but boy I never felt so American as I did when making that picture -- American in the sense of being a jack of all trades, trusting your own experience to find solutions to challenging situations.

I think even at 45 I was just barely old enough to have the worldly experience to handle it. I only lost my cool once during the whole production, and that was when a special effect didn't work out just as we were losing light. It was supposed to be an explosion scene. It just didn't work. So in desperation the DP lit a sparkler just under the camera and I blew some cigarette smoke across the lens. The sun set and we all went home dispirited and a little embarrassed at our lame attempt.

One of the takes of the sparkler shot worked perfectly. When we showed the movie, people asked what special effects package we used! (Sparkler Studio 1...?) So my fellow directors, as the Dalai Lama says, "Sometimes not getting what you want can be the greatest stroke of luck." No need to lose your cool even if things go bad. You'll work out something.

Four quick suggestions for the first time feature director: 1) get pro actors even if you have no money to pay them. Feed them. Praise them. Love them. 2) cut dialogue to the bone. And then in post cut dialogue to the marrow. 3) the story must have some kind of personal axe to grind -- audiences recognize this and will respond. It is called passion. 4) use a tripod.
 
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And a big number 5 that may be most important: HIRE A SOUND PERSON. If you pay no one else on the film pay the sound person. Audiences adjust fairly easily to a bad image but get bored and walk out on bad sound. Conversely, good sound can make a low budget image seem almost intentional, as if it is more a stylistic statement than a limitation.
 
for my first film the thing i had the biggest problem with was letting go of the words i wrote on a script and letting the actors do their acting.

in the end they were right and i was wrong and their takes on the dialogue almost always made it into the last cut.
 
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