C200: Good real world review of C200

Great review. That focus tracking looks ridiculous! Colours look a little wonky though. Can't say I'm totally sold on the look, but it's early days.
 
Last edited:
Can you guys clear this up? It was from the comment section of this review.

The camera will not output RAW. Or 10bit in 4k.
It will output the following;
HDMI - up to 10bit 1080p 4:2:2 (up to 60fps), UHD 8bit 4:2:2.
SDI - up to 10bit 2k/1080p 4:2:2 (up to 60fps)
SDI does not do 4k output at all, only max 2K 10bit 4:2:2.

So when it says SDI up to 2k 10bit 4:2:2 Do I need to be outputting to another sdi monitor or does the current one that comes with the camera connect via SDI? I am just trying to understand how to get these 2k 10bit 4:2:2 files.
 
peter917 said:
Can you guys clear this up? It was from the comment section of this review.

The camera will not output RAW. Or 10bit in 4k.
It will output the following;
HDMI - up to 10bit 1080p 4:2:2 (up to 60fps), UHD 8bit 4:2:2.
SDI - up to 10bit 2k/1080p 4:2:2 (up to 60fps)
SDI does not do 4k output at all, only max 2K 10bit 4:2:2.

So when it says SDI up to 2k 10bit 4:2:2 Do I need to be outputting to another sdi monitor or does the current one that comes with the camera connect via SDI? I am just trying to understand how to get these 2k 10bit 4:2:2 files.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you talking about viewing or recording? I can tell you that the LCD monitor that comes with the camera does not use an SDI connection. It uses a proprietary connection that's just for the LCD.

As for what the camera outputs via HDMI and SDI for the purposes of recording (or viewing on a monitor other than the included LCD), here's a table from the manual that details the options:

eRLN0gk.png
 
Ok so I guess my question is, how do I get the 2k 10 bit files? Is that only a option if you a have it plugged into a separate sdi monitor? I do not see why it cant output the 2k files internally? I was under the assumption that it creates 2k 10 bit proxies? What would I need if I want to get 2k 10 bit files without transcoding my 4k RAW
 
Last edited:
peter917 said:
Ok so I guess my question is, how do I get the 2k 10 bit files? Is that only a option if you a have it plugged into a separate sdi monitor? I do not see why it cant output the 2k files internally? I was under the assumption that it creates 2k 10 bit proxies?
Click to expand...

You should check out the manual; it's got information about this.

Specifically, the proxies that are created by the camera's internal proxy feature are 2k, 4:2:0, 8 bit files with a 35 Mbps bit rate. If that won't work (and I'm curious: wouldn't it be ok just for a proxy?), you could use an external recorder on the SDI port, since that'll give you 10 bit 4:2:2. The other option is to create the proxy via Canon's Cinema Raw Development app. It will export raw files as high quality ProRes 4444 files but can simultaneously export proxy files in a variety of different formats.
 
Not to confuse this already confusing conversation, but the "Proxies" from the C200 are not true proxies, meaning that they will not have the same file header, footer or naming scheme as the CFast Cinema RAW Light files. Which to extrapolate, means that if you try to shoot Cineam RAW Light and off-line with the 2K "Sub-Recording" as Canon calls it, nothing will match back to the original .CRM file. It won't be impossible to use a proxy workflow with the files but it WILL be a complete PITA that will require considerable re-naming of files to be viable. Other than this detail, fhammond's answer seems spot on to me, based upon what I have read and was told by Canon a few weeks ago. I agree, there is no reason for using an external 2K recorder for proxy workflow since the internal 4:2:0 8-bit file will be more than good enough to edit with.
 
puredrifting said:
It won't be impossible to use a proxy workflow with the files but it WILL be a complete PITA that will require considerable re-naming of files to be viable.
Click to expand...
As I'd already mentioned, I use Adobe Bridge to batch rename files. Takes maybe a few minutes at most to rename hundreds of files, maybe even less time than that. Sure, it's a little bit of a pain, but I get the impression you're imagining having to individually rename each file by hand, which could take hours, which just isn't the case. A lot of people still transcode their footage to ProRes to use as their proxy files, which I'd imagine takes considerably more time than the two minutes to batch convert file names using Adobe Bridge.
 
puredrifting said:
Not to confuse this already confusing conversation, but the "Proxies" from the C200 are not true proxies, meaning that they will not have the same file header, footer or naming scheme as the CFast Cinema RAW Light files. Which to extrapolate, means that if you try to shoot Cineam RAW Light and off-line with the 2K "Sub-Recording" as Canon calls it, nothing will match back to the priginal .CRM file. It won't be impossible to use a proxy workflow with the files but it WILL be a complete PITA that will require considerable re-naming of files to be viable. Other than this detail, fhammond's answer seems spot on to me, based upon what I have read and was told by Canon a few weeks ago. I agree, there is no reason for using an external 2K recorder for proxy workflow since the internal 4:2:0 8-bit file will be more than good enough to edit with.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's quite strange to me that proxy files have a different file name. It's not even as simple as putting something like "_proxy" at the end. Raw files follow one naming format; proxy files use the same format as regular mp4 files - completely different naming structures. To further complicate things, proxy files have a 4 GB limit, so a long clip that's got one raw file could end up being multiple mp4 proxy files.

Personally, I don't think I'll use the camera's built-in proxy option. For now, I'll probably just use the high-res ProRes 4444 file directly from Cinema Raw Development and, if I need a proxy for something like laptop editing, I'll create it in CRD. As soon as Premiere supports the raw file natively, I'll just use Premiere's proxy option. Oh, I suppose I might use the camera's proxy option for a better-than-nothing backup option.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
As I'd already mentioned, I use Adobe Bridge to batch rename files. Takes maybe a few minutes at most to rename hundreds of files, maybe even less time than that. Sure, it's a little bit of a pain, but I get the impression you're imagining having to individually rename each file by hand, which could take hours, which just isn't the case. A lot of people still transcode their footage to ProRes to use as their proxy files, which I'd imagine takes considerably more time than the two minutes to batch convert file names using Adobe Bridge.
Click to expand...

Can you provide more information about how you do this? The file names are completely different, so I'm wondering how Bridge helps. I use a tool called "A Better Finder Rename" (great tool; weird name!) but given the different file names, I couldn't see how I could automate the renaming of the proxy to match the raw.
 
fhammond said:
Can you provide more information about how you do this? The file names are completely different, so I'm wondering how Bridge helps. I use a tool called "A Better Finder Rename" (great tool; weird name!) but given the different file names, I couldn't see how I could automate the renaming of the proxy to match the raw.
Click to expand...
My method was to batch rename using HHMMSS (Hours, Minutes, Seconds). The timestamps on the C300 Mark II CFast files is the same as the proxy files. So, I go into Adobe Bridge, go to the root folder of the clips, select all of the clips, right click, select "Batch Rename," "Rename in the same folder" selected, New Filenames listed as "Date Time," "Date File Modified," and "HHMMSS," then select "Rename."

It then renames all of the files based on their timestamps. So, I do this batch renaming for both the Cfast files and the Proxy files and then they all have the same files names. As I said, it takes maybe a couple minutes.

I'm sure there is another way to do things, but that method worked well for me. I believe Christian Moriarty of this forum had told me a way to relink in Premiere based on timecode which may be even simpler, but I didn't quite figure it out. I recently got a new high performance laptop which handles 4K C300 Mark II footage in Premiere fine, so I don't think I'll be using the proxies anymore for editing, just using them as a backup while recording. I don't know how well my computer would handle C200 RAW.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
My method was to batch rename using HHMMSS (Hours, Minutes, Seconds). The timestamps on the C300 Mark II CFast files is the same as the proxy files. So, I go into Adobe Bridge, go to the root folder of the clips, select all of the clips, right click, select "Batch Rename," "Rename in the same folder" selected, New Filenames listed as "Date Time," "Date File Modified," and "HHMMSS," then select "Rename."

It then renames all of the files based on their timestamps. So, I do this batch renaming for both the Cfast files and the Proxy files. As I said, it takes maybe a couple minutes.

I'm sure there is another way to do things, but that method worked well for me. I believe Christian Moriarty of this forum had told me a way to relink in Premiere based on timecode but I didn't quite figure it out. I recently got a new high performance laptop which handles 4K C300 Mark II footage in Premiere fine, so I don't think I'll be using the proxies anymore for editing, just using them as a backup while recording. I don't know how well my computer would handle C200 RAW.
Click to expand...

Ah, got it! That makes sense. Thanks!

BTW, if your laptop uses an SSD drive, it'll probable handle Canon's raw format just fine. Mine does.
 
fhammond said:
To further complicate things, proxy files have a 4 GB limit, so a long clip that's got one raw file could end up being multiple mp4 proxy files.
Click to expand...
On the C300 Mark II proxies, a 30 minute clip is less than 4 GB. With C200 RAW recording to a 256 GB card, you get up to 30 minutes of record time. So, until larger CFast cards become available this shouldn't be an issue. (It is possible the C200's proxies record at slightly higher data rates than the C300 Mark II proxies, which could then be less than 30 minutes for 4 GBs.)

Also, on the C300 Mark II the proxies are .MXF files and from what I recall (without going through my hard drives to looK) I don't believe they split the files every 4GB and I don't believe it's been an issue (considering I've done 4K recording with 82 minute run times with the Cfast and proxies, and linked them together). I don't know if the C200 proxy files are different such that they would split every 4GB.
 
fhammond said:
Ah, got it! That makes sense. Thanks!

BTW, if your laptop uses an SSD drive, it'll probable handle Canon's raw format just fine. Mine does.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've got a 2 TB internal NVMe SSD drive in it, along with a 2 TB hybrid drive. I'm still hooking up like five different external hard drives to it to work on my latest demo reel since 4 TBs isn't enough.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
On the C300 Mark II proxies, a 30 minute clip is less than 4 GB. With C200 RAW recording to a 256 GB card, you get up to 30 minutes of record time. So, until larger CFast cards become available this shouldn't be an issue. (It is possible the C200's proxies record at slightly higher data rates than the C300 Mark II proxies, which could then be less than 30 minutes for 4 GBs.)

Also, on the C300 Mark II the proxies are .MXF files and from what I recall (without going through my hard drives to looK) I don't believe they split the files every 4GB and I don't believe it's been an issue (considering I've done 4K recording with 82 minute run times with the Cfast and proxies, and linked them together). I don't know if the C200 proxy files are different such that they would split every 4GB.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was wondering about whether the 4 GB limit would actually be an issue, given the recording time on the CFast card. I'm planning on buying a couple of 256 GB SanDisk cards to start with so it sounds like the 4 GB limit won't have any effect. The C200 manual does say mp4 clips larger than 4 GB will be split but I'd like to test that. I know that on my 1DXM2, it's partially dependent on the card being used 'though I can't remember the exact details. It's interesting that the C300M2 uses .mxf; the C200 manual implies that the proxy files are exactly the same naming format as "regular" mp4 files.
 
fhammond said:
Yeah, I was wondering about whether the 4 GB limit would actually be an issue, given the recording time on the CFast card. I'm planning on buying a couple of 256 GB SanDisk cards to start with so it sounds like the 4 GB limit won't have any effect. The C200 manual does say mp4 clips larger than 4 GB will be split but I'd like to test that. I know that on my 1DXM2, it's partially dependent on the card being used 'though I can't remember the exact details. It's interesting that the C300M2 uses .mxf; the C200 manual implies that the proxy files are exactly the same naming format as "regular" mp4 files.
Click to expand...

cfast cards are formatted in exfat so there is no 4 gb limit that is only with fat32 formatting.
 
avian said:
cfast cards are formatted in exfat so there is no 4 gb limit that is only with fat32 formatting.
Click to expand...

Check the thread again: we're referring to proxy files, which are recorded to SD card. According to the C200 manual, they are split at 4 GB.
 
fhammond said:
Check the thread again: we're referring to proxy files, which are recorded to SD card. According to the C200 manual, they are split at 4 GB.
Click to expand...

for the sd cards same holds true when using sdxc cards
SDHC cards have FAT32 file format, whereas SDXC has exFAT file format
4gb size limit is only applicable with the fat32 file system.
 
It's mind boggling to me that they not only did it this way on the C300-2 (and presumably on the flagship C700), but continue to not have a true proxy workflow on their latest camera. I mean I don't think it's possible that Canon isn't aware of the standard proxy workflow, so there must be a reason they don't offer the option, right?

I mean I'm going to be slightly annoyed every time I have to use Eric's Adobe Bridge method because it's just an extra step that shouldn't be necessary. Here's to hoping my MacBook Pro can edit the files natively...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top