C100: gimbal stabilizer for the C100 vs the Osmo
- Thread starter drummondb
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nedcam
Well-known member
I'm an Osmo addict! For those of you who don't know what the Osmo is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJZzgNwLoNA
I haven't had so much FUN with a new camera since before I was shaving. And thanks to Puredrifting for turning me onto the Osmo! I often don't mention to the editors or clients that its footage is coming and they get wowed. Be forewarned that it takes an enormous amount of practice to master. Lots of glitches and bugs. In fact, every time I power up I have to find a flat surface to recalibrate the horizontal gimbal and in doc shooting that lost 30 seconds is a big deal. I have the X3, 3 batteries. So I would say that for b-roll, it adds a wow factor. I can place and move the Osmo in areas where in NO WAY could you fit a C100 on a gimbal. I've been producing videos for a fast casual restaurant chain where the cooks are moving real fast and the Osmo goes anywhere my arm can reach. I often jump on a chair and do 325 degree overhead sweeps which normally could only be done by a jib, and of course there's no room or time for that.
Here's what you should do for about a week before deciding to purchase, then purchase from B&H with the 2 year warranty in case you need to return: Visit the Osmo forum, go back until late last year and read all the posts:
http://forum.dji.com/forum-91-1.html
There's a world of great YouTube Osmo gurus. And this guy is dee best, or I should say his daughter is great:
http://osmotips.com/dji-osmo-video-tutorials-and-tips/
Unlike Dvxuser and Creative Cow peeps, these Osmo forum posters are often not pro shooters, rather, they are drone guys who bought an Osmo, or conversely, they are high end shooters who bought the X5 and expect high quality Japanese engineering and this is a Chinese product and it will not let you forget it. Just because DJI makes fantastic drones doesn't mean they could do a handheld, matter of fact, the word is they rushed the Osmo to market because GoPro was coming out with a handheld. But lots of folks on the forum complains about the low level of Chinese customer service and that is why I say buy from B&H so you have an option. Most gripes on the forum are user error you'll learn as you become expert. But I digress...
A downside of the Osmo is that it is slow to adjust to light level changes, just like a GoPro, so I avoid panning across windows, etc. it's has a very slow variable aperture. Perfect for corporate b-roll in even overhead light though. Last week I had a corporate client doing a "hunger challenge" where over a hundred employees are lined up on two sides of long tables, packing food for the hungry as fast as they can to win for their team. So the aisle between them is narrow and I tried to go with my C100 shoulder rig and I was bumped around like a pin ball, so I took the Osmo (I made a custom stand and it is always at the ready) and I can then get great tracking shots plus my overhead chair trick. Also, when people see the Osmo in my right hand coming at them they always have a WTF look on their face because no one has never seen an Osmo, so I take out my SMILE! sign and wow, great shots for the editor (see below). Patent pending. It makes a shot USABLE as compared to the person having a WTF expression. My SMILE! sign is always at the ready in my belt pouch.
So in sum, you can get shots with an Osmo (once you've conquered the learning curve) that you can't get with anything else because it's the size of a double scoop Baskin & Robbins ice cream cone. Oh! Here's another: I was at a hospital client today and they said they want me to do a gala video and the subject is pediatric rehab, and they're worried the kids and toddlers will just stare at my rig, as has happened when they or other pros have tried to do vids. So I tell them how I can strip the C100 down, or bring a 2nd C100 that's stripped to its nakedness, and my PA holds puppets outside my frame but then I think...OSMO! But I can't impress enough on you to get it in your hands a month before you show up on a paying gig with it because you will fail a lot and need to search the forum (or call me).
An alternative if you own a DSLR is this new gadget I saw on Newshooter, I suggest everyone bookmark that site. It will not hold a C100 as per this review:
http://www.newsshooter.com/2016/08/08/field-test-pilotfly-h2-brushless-gimbal/
Lastly, the reason I never got a stabilizer for the C100 is because I specialize in doc style and I figured unless I had a second unit C100 entombed in a Ronin or whatever, it'd be a PITA, plus a Ronin is too big and draws stares.
If anyone knows how this forum is moderated it would be GREAT if Dvxuser had it's own Osmo forum because the DJI one has a lot of rookies and fools, so maybe somebody here knows how to do this?
Ned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJZzgNwLoNA
I haven't had so much FUN with a new camera since before I was shaving. And thanks to Puredrifting for turning me onto the Osmo! I often don't mention to the editors or clients that its footage is coming and they get wowed. Be forewarned that it takes an enormous amount of practice to master. Lots of glitches and bugs. In fact, every time I power up I have to find a flat surface to recalibrate the horizontal gimbal and in doc shooting that lost 30 seconds is a big deal. I have the X3, 3 batteries. So I would say that for b-roll, it adds a wow factor. I can place and move the Osmo in areas where in NO WAY could you fit a C100 on a gimbal. I've been producing videos for a fast casual restaurant chain where the cooks are moving real fast and the Osmo goes anywhere my arm can reach. I often jump on a chair and do 325 degree overhead sweeps which normally could only be done by a jib, and of course there's no room or time for that.
Here's what you should do for about a week before deciding to purchase, then purchase from B&H with the 2 year warranty in case you need to return: Visit the Osmo forum, go back until late last year and read all the posts:
http://forum.dji.com/forum-91-1.html
There's a world of great YouTube Osmo gurus. And this guy is dee best, or I should say his daughter is great:
http://osmotips.com/dji-osmo-video-tutorials-and-tips/
Unlike Dvxuser and Creative Cow peeps, these Osmo forum posters are often not pro shooters, rather, they are drone guys who bought an Osmo, or conversely, they are high end shooters who bought the X5 and expect high quality Japanese engineering and this is a Chinese product and it will not let you forget it. Just because DJI makes fantastic drones doesn't mean they could do a handheld, matter of fact, the word is they rushed the Osmo to market because GoPro was coming out with a handheld. But lots of folks on the forum complains about the low level of Chinese customer service and that is why I say buy from B&H so you have an option. Most gripes on the forum are user error you'll learn as you become expert. But I digress...
A downside of the Osmo is that it is slow to adjust to light level changes, just like a GoPro, so I avoid panning across windows, etc. it's has a very slow variable aperture. Perfect for corporate b-roll in even overhead light though. Last week I had a corporate client doing a "hunger challenge" where over a hundred employees are lined up on two sides of long tables, packing food for the hungry as fast as they can to win for their team. So the aisle between them is narrow and I tried to go with my C100 shoulder rig and I was bumped around like a pin ball, so I took the Osmo (I made a custom stand and it is always at the ready) and I can then get great tracking shots plus my overhead chair trick. Also, when people see the Osmo in my right hand coming at them they always have a WTF look on their face because no one has never seen an Osmo, so I take out my SMILE! sign and wow, great shots for the editor (see below). Patent pending. It makes a shot USABLE as compared to the person having a WTF expression. My SMILE! sign is always at the ready in my belt pouch.
So in sum, you can get shots with an Osmo (once you've conquered the learning curve) that you can't get with anything else because it's the size of a double scoop Baskin & Robbins ice cream cone. Oh! Here's another: I was at a hospital client today and they said they want me to do a gala video and the subject is pediatric rehab, and they're worried the kids and toddlers will just stare at my rig, as has happened when they or other pros have tried to do vids. So I tell them how I can strip the C100 down, or bring a 2nd C100 that's stripped to its nakedness, and my PA holds puppets outside my frame but then I think...OSMO! But I can't impress enough on you to get it in your hands a month before you show up on a paying gig with it because you will fail a lot and need to search the forum (or call me).
An alternative if you own a DSLR is this new gadget I saw on Newshooter, I suggest everyone bookmark that site. It will not hold a C100 as per this review:
http://www.newsshooter.com/2016/08/08/field-test-pilotfly-h2-brushless-gimbal/
Lastly, the reason I never got a stabilizer for the C100 is because I specialize in doc style and I figured unless I had a second unit C100 entombed in a Ronin or whatever, it'd be a PITA, plus a Ronin is too big and draws stares.
If anyone knows how this forum is moderated it would be GREAT if Dvxuser had it's own Osmo forum because the DJI one has a lot of rookies and fools, so maybe somebody here knows how to do this?
Ned
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cpreston
Veteran
I use both a C100 with full gimbal set-up and an Osmo. My thoughts:
For the price, the Osmo is one of the best tools available. For run and gun situations in good light in which the primary purpose is to capture an event, the Osmo is the winner, but there are a few conditions in which the Osmo will not get you what you want: low light, selective focus, anything in which a UWA lens is not what you want. DJI has a new zoom camera out that will hopefully be adapted to the Osmo. The X5 is junk for video.
For the price, the Osmo is one of the best tools available. For run and gun situations in good light in which the primary purpose is to capture an event, the Osmo is the winner, but there are a few conditions in which the Osmo will not get you what you want: low light, selective focus, anything in which a UWA lens is not what you want. DJI has a new zoom camera out that will hopefully be adapted to the Osmo. The X5 is junk for video.
Thanks, guys. I dismissed the Osmo a sa gimmick until last week when I actually got to use one. We were shooting a big trade show in a theater. My co-worker used the Osmo (for his first time ever touching it) to track behind our boss as he entered from the back of house. Footage blew me away. Here's that moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SgwHoJDAW8&feature=youtu.be&t=11m20s
Any tips for matching the color as best possible to the C100? D-log with all the settings turned down (sharpness, etc)?
Any tips for matching the color as best possible to the C100? D-log with all the settings turned down (sharpness, etc)?
cpreston
Veteran
I have been shooting in cine-log or whatever it is called, -2 sharpness, -1 contrast. The sharpness with the camera is a pain because the camera seems to be using some sort of denoising and resharpening that messes with the motion cadence of the compression. Motion looks like ants and strobing no matter what you do. I've found that -2 on sharpening looks the most natural compared to the C100. -3 starts to look like mush. The contrast doesn't change the knee or slope of the gamma curve, it just expands or decreases the RGB values around the midpoint. Therefore, decreasing the contrast to less than zero just acts to drop clipping below 100% and push up black values from zero. It is an odd way of implementing a contrast adjustment, but it is pretty clear that DJI has almost no idea what they are doing with their cameras. In any case, I still use -1 on contrast because it seems to save some date in the blacks and help protect high saturation areas.
I've been using the cine log instead of d-log because d-log just seems desaturate and push up white levels in a way that doesn't help preserve the image. Manual white balance is hit and miss. The colors are somewhat similar to the C100 if the white balance is correct, but the manual white balances do not match up. AWB on the Osmo seems to produce a better image in many circumstances than setting a manual white balance.
No matter what you do, though, cutting between a C100 and an Osmo is going to be a bit jarring due to the reduced DR and the very different chip sizes.
I've been using the cine log instead of d-log because d-log just seems desaturate and push up white levels in a way that doesn't help preserve the image. Manual white balance is hit and miss. The colors are somewhat similar to the C100 if the white balance is correct, but the manual white balances do not match up. AWB on the Osmo seems to produce a better image in many circumstances than setting a manual white balance.
No matter what you do, though, cutting between a C100 and an Osmo is going to be a bit jarring due to the reduced DR and the very different chip sizes.
nedcam
Well-known member
So, why is the audience all women?
There are threads on their forum about shooting in -2 sharpness etc., but as you saw with the boss's walk in: Wow! Smooth! Replaced the Stedicam operator, right? So you can't fall into the "Perfect is the enemy of the good", meaning for $650 you have a shot you couldn't have had otherwise, and if your audience isn't pixel peepers, what's it matter?
What you are showing is a grab shot, I suppose in auto, and it looks excellent (Op needs to watch the head room). If you plan to do that tracking shot every episode, you can practice and tweak settings, such as go manual, choose a higher shutter speed to avoid motion blur, etc. I use only AWB though and avoid any lights or bright sources in the shot. Don't get closer than 3'. And since it's quick cut the viewer doesn't have the time to analyze noise, color matching, etc. right? That's the beauty of my Osmo usage: It's Quick Cut. I'd say motion blur from low shutter speed in auto is the biggest problem, but that's why many shoot in 4K and dumb down in post.
On Netflix watch Tony Robbins: I Am Not Your Guru. Lots of Ronin with a DSLR, I freeze frame when I see the shooters to analyze (drives my wife nuts) and wow, a Ronin user cutting through a crowd is very distracting and defeats the idea of blending in for a documentary truth seeker. Also, in a crowd the Osmo is so small it's like using a Hi8 palmcorder 15 years ago. And don't forget your SMILE! sign.
Remember my suggesting of buying from B&H with the two year return policy. The Chinese concept of quality control is not what we're used to, I think DJI puts all their sober employees on their drone assembly lines.
I made a custom Osmo holder out of $8 in toilet parts, then painted it black, so I can be rolling in two seconds. The only danger is someone will steal my iPhone! And I honestly worry about that...
See ya,
Ned
P.S. It never hurts to shoot a color chart at the head of every two camera shoot if they will be in the same lighting environment. I always do. I figure it keeps me on the good side of the editors. Chart was $60. Shot some car spots last month:
There are threads on their forum about shooting in -2 sharpness etc., but as you saw with the boss's walk in: Wow! Smooth! Replaced the Stedicam operator, right? So you can't fall into the "Perfect is the enemy of the good", meaning for $650 you have a shot you couldn't have had otherwise, and if your audience isn't pixel peepers, what's it matter?
What you are showing is a grab shot, I suppose in auto, and it looks excellent (Op needs to watch the head room). If you plan to do that tracking shot every episode, you can practice and tweak settings, such as go manual, choose a higher shutter speed to avoid motion blur, etc. I use only AWB though and avoid any lights or bright sources in the shot. Don't get closer than 3'. And since it's quick cut the viewer doesn't have the time to analyze noise, color matching, etc. right? That's the beauty of my Osmo usage: It's Quick Cut. I'd say motion blur from low shutter speed in auto is the biggest problem, but that's why many shoot in 4K and dumb down in post.
On Netflix watch Tony Robbins: I Am Not Your Guru. Lots of Ronin with a DSLR, I freeze frame when I see the shooters to analyze (drives my wife nuts) and wow, a Ronin user cutting through a crowd is very distracting and defeats the idea of blending in for a documentary truth seeker. Also, in a crowd the Osmo is so small it's like using a Hi8 palmcorder 15 years ago. And don't forget your SMILE! sign.
Remember my suggesting of buying from B&H with the two year return policy. The Chinese concept of quality control is not what we're used to, I think DJI puts all their sober employees on their drone assembly lines.
I made a custom Osmo holder out of $8 in toilet parts, then painted it black, so I can be rolling in two seconds. The only danger is someone will steal my iPhone! And I honestly worry about that...
See ya,
Ned
P.S. It never hurts to shoot a color chart at the head of every two camera shoot if they will be in the same lighting environment. I always do. I figure it keeps me on the good side of the editors. Chart was $60. Shot some car spots last month:
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puredrifting
Major Contributor
Unless you are doing a dedicated gimbal shoot, the Osmo is a great way to go. I use mine in the same way that Nedcam does. With good lighting and some skills, the Osmo footage is totally acceptable for many clients, even for broadcast. A great, specialized tool.
I have an Inspire 1 Pro with the X5 camera and bought an Osmo to use with the X5. Unfortunately DJI was very late with the adapter and so I went on and try to hack it (grinding according to YouTube movies) but eventually I upgraded to new firmware that was bust and damaged the WIFI transmitter in the Osmo. So basically it went into the garbage because I coudn't use it anymore.
The answer to my problems: the Sony A6300 together with a gun-style gimbal (I have the Came-TV single) which is working great for me. A few upsides compared to the Osmo: WAY better low-light performance, good continues autofocus, upgradable camera from all brands to choose from, can use the monitor from the camera itself so no delay, better choice in lenses.
Here is an example of it being used:
The answer to my problems: the Sony A6300 together with a gun-style gimbal (I have the Came-TV single) which is working great for me. A few upsides compared to the Osmo: WAY better low-light performance, good continues autofocus, upgradable camera from all brands to choose from, can use the monitor from the camera itself so no delay, better choice in lenses.
Here is an example of it being used:
So I bought an Osmo! I only used one once or twice before, but I instantly saw the potential use once I saw the footage. First time I really used it was yesterday. My son was going to school for the first time, and as my luck would have it, we discovered the spot where he was to catch the bus was moved without our knowing, so I got to get some sweet running (ok, maybe "jogging" footage) as he ran to catch the bus.
I wasn't using any ND to lower the shutter speed, and I don't remember the exact picture settings. But still, I'm damned impressed.
Are you guys using the thumbstick to move the cameras? I know at the default settings, it can look very robotic and security-camera-esque. I did not use the thumbstick, and I only altered where it was pointing by physically moving my body. Maybe once I reset it on zero by double-pressing the trigger. Lemme know what you all think:
https://vimeo.com/179465315/6d06a26567
I wasn't using any ND to lower the shutter speed, and I don't remember the exact picture settings. But still, I'm damned impressed.
Are you guys using the thumbstick to move the cameras? I know at the default settings, it can look very robotic and security-camera-esque. I did not use the thumbstick, and I only altered where it was pointing by physically moving my body. Maybe once I reset it on zero by double-pressing the trigger. Lemme know what you all think:
https://vimeo.com/179465315/6d06a26567
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
I say skip the Osmo and Gimbal and get a Steadicam. More organic, natural looking footage, with better control for more precisely following people's movements. After 3-5 years of practice and dedication you'll likely get pretty good with it.
Gimbals are often good for mimicking dolly moves when you don't want to setup a dolly, and when you shoot in slow motion it often hides their sloppy up and down movement and makes things feel smoother. Also good for low shots such as feet walking, or for shots from a moving vehicle. But when you're trying to track a person while walking, which is probably 90-95% of shots, than a Steadicam generally looks better.
I use the Glidecam HD4000 for run n gun shoots, often with a Steadicam vest & arm if there's time and room. The Glidecam takes about 0-30 seconds to setup (0 if it's already setup and just leaning on a wall or on the ground), and the vest takes about 30-60 seconds to setup and put on. So from taking it out of the bag to being ready, it's about a minute or two, and if it's already setup and on the ground, about 30 seconds to put the vest on and be ready to go. I haven't used full size gimbals much, but from what I hear it's more of a hassle than what I just described. The Osmo may be quicker and easier, if you're willing to accept the lower image quality and being unable to use a variety of focal lengths and quality lenses, plus the look of the movement often isn't as good, depending on what type of shot you're trying to achieve.
And then I use the Steadicam Zephyr for bigger setups when I have more time. I get way better image quality with this setup than I would with an Osmo.
Gimbals are often good for mimicking dolly moves when you don't want to setup a dolly, and when you shoot in slow motion it often hides their sloppy up and down movement and makes things feel smoother. Also good for low shots such as feet walking, or for shots from a moving vehicle. But when you're trying to track a person while walking, which is probably 90-95% of shots, than a Steadicam generally looks better.
I use the Glidecam HD4000 for run n gun shoots, often with a Steadicam vest & arm if there's time and room. The Glidecam takes about 0-30 seconds to setup (0 if it's already setup and just leaning on a wall or on the ground), and the vest takes about 30-60 seconds to setup and put on. So from taking it out of the bag to being ready, it's about a minute or two, and if it's already setup and on the ground, about 30 seconds to put the vest on and be ready to go. I haven't used full size gimbals much, but from what I hear it's more of a hassle than what I just described. The Osmo may be quicker and easier, if you're willing to accept the lower image quality and being unable to use a variety of focal lengths and quality lenses, plus the look of the movement often isn't as good, depending on what type of shot you're trying to achieve.
And then I use the Steadicam Zephyr for bigger setups when I have more time. I get way better image quality with this setup than I would with an Osmo.
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nedcam
Well-known member
Very nice prod stills Eric! But Stedicam is a very hard specialty to grow old in though. All the guys, and one gal (Janice Arthur) who I came up with and were the most popular, they didn't make it past their early forties. Spine, knees, shoulders, etc. are not made by Mother Nature to take that long term abuse. I suppose a union Hollywood type who has lots of helpers may help his career last longer, if he is built like a fire hydrant. But your rig is impressive for drama, etc. My client base is doc and marketing now, so they have no use for big rigs. BTW, those bottom two stills, were they RAW stills or what? HDRish? Very nice rez.
Drummond- yes looks nice, but you will learn how to predict when to slow down your move for ending composition because the Osmo will keep "drifting" after you want it to stop, so you have to plan for your end point to get the correct looking and head room etc. Last week I had to do a few mini docs for a rehab hospital, picture people with canes, walkers, toddlers on tricycles, going through therapy. Especially with the kids, I was forewarned that they would, (they had special needs besides physical) would just stare at me and ruin the shot, so I brought my kids' old Beenie Babies and someone would wiggle them 45 degrees off my axis to draw their attention, BUT...the Osmo is so wide the doll might get in my frame, so that is the downside: The Osmo is very wide, and your VF is for far from your eyes, stuff is creeping into frame that you don't see until you're in post. To compensate I move in a bit. I had to do 360 moves so the viewer will see how huge and busy the place is, but with the VF so far away I couldn't discern if something in the background would ruin the shot. Maybe a VR headset will help?
As to the adults, I had a couple of hours of people moving constantly and I often needed to start on feet and drift up as they walked (or lurched) and your question about the thumbstick, I use it often but do not intend for the editor to keep that part of the shot because it is jerky, rather, it is for recomposition. There's a mode called Flashlight and you may want to try that. Another thing is you sometimes lose horizontal calibration so you think you're doing great shots but it isn't really level so I have to, several times a day, reboot and recalibrate on a flat surface at 30 seconds each.
With the slashed budgets and unrealistic schedules and shot lists i am forced to now deal with, and perhaps a third to half of my work is now solo, the Osmo allows me to do faux Ronin/Stedicam smooth moves, especially side tracking shots. I am very steady with my shoulder rig going forwards and back, I use the Osmo for side tracking, mouse cam, jump up on a chair and do faux jib shots. If I started piecing together a large rig I would get a semi circle of clients with the WTF look, they need me to start rolling because the therapists are charging big money and the kids can go crabby at any moment and they don't want me to be too distracting.
I do suggest you buy two extra batteries and make a holder like I did. But you still need to bring a tight camera. After doing my Osmo shots I used the C100 for my close ups of smiling therapists and patients, hands on, adjusting, etc. I'm planning to make a holster for the Osmo, basically a padded hammer holder that a carpenter would use on his belt. That way I can go from C100 to Osmo instantly. Very important you monitor your phone's battery level. And I avoid windows in my background, the Osmo will go silhouette.
Glad you're having so much fun! I love the Osmo but swore I was going to return it for a refund the first month. Soon I will cut an example reel of the footage as a marketing tool and the way I will spin it is: "You get the smoothness without the distraction and set up time factor of the more complex options". We all know that the Osmo can not do what the others do, but the clients only care about the smoothness. Since it was only $650 I will throw it in as "value added". I have a major retail client similar to Pottery Barn and used it for store shots which they loved. It's so small I have stuck it in places for static shots where normally I would have only been able to use a GoPro, such as my restaurant client on the cooks in back. I wore a glove because of smattering fry oil and I was able to follow their hands because the Osmo is so small.
Lastly, yes it's important to learn how to up the shutter to minimize motion blur but I only do manual settings when the light won't change.
Later,
Ned
P.S. Here's a great doc video that is 100% Osmo and drone, possibly a GoPro for timelapse:
http://forum.dji.com/thread-56176-1-7.html
I feel the filmmaker was very brave for having brought only an Osmo, especially to the middle of Nowhere. I am Old School and believe in the power of close ups to capture human emotions, so I would have also brought my C100 or at least a 70D, but as you can see by this example the beauty of the Osmo is QUICK CUT. The viewer and professional picky pixel peepers don't have the time to over analyze the shot, the video is to make you Feel Good, which is usually the goal of my clients. Check out at 5:27 when the cameraman leans his Osmo over, probably in Upside Down mode and films over the water towards the boat. Only an Osmo could possible do that. And keep in mind that everyone looking at the cameraman sees him holding something the size of a double scoop ice cream cone!
Drummond- yes looks nice, but you will learn how to predict when to slow down your move for ending composition because the Osmo will keep "drifting" after you want it to stop, so you have to plan for your end point to get the correct looking and head room etc. Last week I had to do a few mini docs for a rehab hospital, picture people with canes, walkers, toddlers on tricycles, going through therapy. Especially with the kids, I was forewarned that they would, (they had special needs besides physical) would just stare at me and ruin the shot, so I brought my kids' old Beenie Babies and someone would wiggle them 45 degrees off my axis to draw their attention, BUT...the Osmo is so wide the doll might get in my frame, so that is the downside: The Osmo is very wide, and your VF is for far from your eyes, stuff is creeping into frame that you don't see until you're in post. To compensate I move in a bit. I had to do 360 moves so the viewer will see how huge and busy the place is, but with the VF so far away I couldn't discern if something in the background would ruin the shot. Maybe a VR headset will help?
As to the adults, I had a couple of hours of people moving constantly and I often needed to start on feet and drift up as they walked (or lurched) and your question about the thumbstick, I use it often but do not intend for the editor to keep that part of the shot because it is jerky, rather, it is for recomposition. There's a mode called Flashlight and you may want to try that. Another thing is you sometimes lose horizontal calibration so you think you're doing great shots but it isn't really level so I have to, several times a day, reboot and recalibrate on a flat surface at 30 seconds each.
With the slashed budgets and unrealistic schedules and shot lists i am forced to now deal with, and perhaps a third to half of my work is now solo, the Osmo allows me to do faux Ronin/Stedicam smooth moves, especially side tracking shots. I am very steady with my shoulder rig going forwards and back, I use the Osmo for side tracking, mouse cam, jump up on a chair and do faux jib shots. If I started piecing together a large rig I would get a semi circle of clients with the WTF look, they need me to start rolling because the therapists are charging big money and the kids can go crabby at any moment and they don't want me to be too distracting.
I do suggest you buy two extra batteries and make a holder like I did. But you still need to bring a tight camera. After doing my Osmo shots I used the C100 for my close ups of smiling therapists and patients, hands on, adjusting, etc. I'm planning to make a holster for the Osmo, basically a padded hammer holder that a carpenter would use on his belt. That way I can go from C100 to Osmo instantly. Very important you monitor your phone's battery level. And I avoid windows in my background, the Osmo will go silhouette.
Glad you're having so much fun! I love the Osmo but swore I was going to return it for a refund the first month. Soon I will cut an example reel of the footage as a marketing tool and the way I will spin it is: "You get the smoothness without the distraction and set up time factor of the more complex options". We all know that the Osmo can not do what the others do, but the clients only care about the smoothness. Since it was only $650 I will throw it in as "value added". I have a major retail client similar to Pottery Barn and used it for store shots which they loved. It's so small I have stuck it in places for static shots where normally I would have only been able to use a GoPro, such as my restaurant client on the cooks in back. I wore a glove because of smattering fry oil and I was able to follow their hands because the Osmo is so small.
Lastly, yes it's important to learn how to up the shutter to minimize motion blur but I only do manual settings when the light won't change.
Later,
Ned
P.S. Here's a great doc video that is 100% Osmo and drone, possibly a GoPro for timelapse:
http://forum.dji.com/thread-56176-1-7.html
I feel the filmmaker was very brave for having brought only an Osmo, especially to the middle of Nowhere. I am Old School and believe in the power of close ups to capture human emotions, so I would have also brought my C100 or at least a 70D, but as you can see by this example the beauty of the Osmo is QUICK CUT. The viewer and professional picky pixel peepers don't have the time to over analyze the shot, the video is to make you Feel Good, which is usually the goal of my clients. Check out at 5:27 when the cameraman leans his Osmo over, probably in Upside Down mode and films over the water towards the boat. Only an Osmo could possible do that. And keep in mind that everyone looking at the cameraman sees him holding something the size of a double scoop ice cream cone!
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cpreston
Veteran
DJI released the Z3 zoom camera. It's not currently supposed to work with the Osmo, but the Osmo specific version should be released soon. The image quality won't be any better than the X3, but you will no longer be stuck with the ultrawide look.
Regarding gimbals vs steadicams, I've owned both but I am certainly not an expert on either. I practiced with a Glidecam and vest for awhile, but I gave up and realized that if I really needed a decent steadicam shot, I was going to have to hire a professional. I now have a Ronin and Ready Rig vest with Cinemilled Pro-Ring. With less practice than it takes with for a Steadicam, you can get perfectly stable shots without the odd floating feeling. You can also significantly reduce the motor power and change deadbands and motor response so that the gimbal doesn't look quite so artificial in its stabilization. My feeling is that a gimbal will naturally produce somewhat poor results without practice, but it will never look as bad as bad steadicam footage. The footage may never look quite as organic as a great steadicam op, but you also don't have to rebalance after every change or worry about the wind or worry about losing a shot completely due to camera sway.
Regarding gimbals vs steadicams, I've owned both but I am certainly not an expert on either. I practiced with a Glidecam and vest for awhile, but I gave up and realized that if I really needed a decent steadicam shot, I was going to have to hire a professional. I now have a Ronin and Ready Rig vest with Cinemilled Pro-Ring. With less practice than it takes with for a Steadicam, you can get perfectly stable shots without the odd floating feeling. You can also significantly reduce the motor power and change deadbands and motor response so that the gimbal doesn't look quite so artificial in its stabilization. My feeling is that a gimbal will naturally produce somewhat poor results without practice, but it will never look as bad as bad steadicam footage. The footage may never look quite as organic as a great steadicam op, but you also don't have to rebalance after every change or worry about the wind or worry about losing a shot completely due to camera sway.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I'm just like Ned, the Osmo is a value add for me when shooting without crew (or sometimes with crew and I hand it to a PA or client). I know sacrilege but yes, I have let clients actually shoot a quick shot that makes the final cut, why not? It makes them happy and they get more of a sense of ownership of the project. I used the Osmo yesterday to grab shots on the 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica where I have been kicked out before with my C100. The Osmo looks weird enough that many people don't even realize you are shooting video. So the Osmo is letting me get shots I could never get any other way. I am looking into buying the Osmo car mount because you can car mount it and do nice smooth pans and tilts while driving, that's another shot that is difficult to get any other way. I agree that the Glidecam/Steadicam is going to be much higher quality in both moves and camera quality but the two scenarios I just outlined could not be easily shot in any other way. Another thing the Osmo is good for is tripod lockoffs with no tripod, it is steady enough to give you 2-3 seconds of rock solid footage that looks like a lockoff. I have to grab some shots on Hollywood Blvd. and of the Mann Chinese Theater this next week. I have shot at the Chinese Theater before with the theater chains permission for a New Line Cinema project and the permissions and clearances were a nightmare. This time, I will be using the Osmo, will look like a tourist and nobody will be any the wiser. No permits, no permissions (low budget internal project for a corporate vs. the other time it was a big project with a decent budget and crew). Osmo is not the be all, end all, but like Go Pros, they are a very handy tool for certain things.
My other trick is when I shoot b-roll with a tripod now, I fasten a Go Pro to the C100 hot shoe. It gives me mediums and CUs on the C100 while I am also recording a wide on the Go Pro. Sure the colorimtery is different but it often gives me a shot that I never would have captured with the C100, very handy.
My other trick is when I shoot b-roll with a tripod now, I fasten a Go Pro to the C100 hot shoe. It gives me mediums and CUs on the C100 while I am also recording a wide on the Go Pro. Sure the colorimtery is different but it often gives me a shot that I never would have captured with the C100, very handy.
control4userguy
Well-known member
Glad to hear I'm not the only one...
nedcam
Well-known member
I am researching buying a non-connected phone just for the Osmo, as long as it has a certain firmware and wifi it should only be $30 at Best Buy, because I am often working solo in public and crowds and I worry that some scumbag will grab the Osmo just to get my iPhone. I carry a bicycle chain and I often will lock my cameras to a heavy chair, assuming the thief can't figure out how to unscrew the top handle, camera thieves tend to be Grab & Dash specialists. This is especially concerning when I work solo for my fast casual restaurant chain client. But I digress...
Forgot to mention, the Osmo is a pig in low light. As to Hearnia's question: I only move in close when I'm shooting in auto in good level light and I know that it has stopped down so I have a great DoF, and in that case it stays sharp up close. Otherwise, its minimum focusing distance is 1.5 yards, and in low light I don't go close up and I pan very slow to minimize the motion blur. In fact, I don't use the Osmo if it's low light, I can tell immediately based on my testing. That's why I use the C100 to intercut close ups, I feel faces and their expressions help tell the story and gives the editor options. I found it brave for the videographer in the above example to bring just an Osmo to Guatemala, but I have been on many of those kind of gigs in terrible heat so I suppose he didn't want to lug around more gear. I would have brought a back up though.
As to sneaking around, that's a specialty of mine. I often have worked for LA folks coming to Chicago and they are amazed that we don't need permits, but that's only if we work fast and nimble and we do it right. And I always have a Plan B. First I remove the handle and lens shade to make it look like a tourist camera. I may bring a mono pod and when I lean it against a lamp post it's as good as my $8K Sachtler. The cops will only hassle you under certain circumstances and when you know what those parameters are you're OK. Building security is worse than the cops, so I eyeball where they and the security cameras are and I work fast. I find it fun! I have been arrested twice in my career: at the Alamo (they don't fool around there) and St. Louis Arch (National Park), both for shooting without a permit, being asked to leave and then caught sneaking in later (no choice), they called the cops and national park service police. I was later released without charges but that's how they instill fear in you, get handcuffed and your rig is thrown in their trunk, driven to the station. However, in Chicago you may end up in jail for several hours until your wife can bail you out and that place is not safe to be!
I once hired a young shooter to replace me on a gig to shoot video for a TV special on a crazy guy, Spiderman climbing the Sears Tower, and he got arrested as a co-conspirator (cops had to close off streets, etc.) and they confiscated his Betacam rig ($60K) and I told him he could use mine till he got his back. I felt bad for him. When authorities confiscate your baby they do not put it in a case, they put it in their car trunk!
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...1_alain-robert-110-story-sears-tower-climbing
I did all the pre-pro and bought him the kind of big suction cups that the plate glass workers use, so he could get up the first 20'. But you'll have to wait until I finish writing my memoirs and buy the book.
Later,
Ned
Forgot to mention, the Osmo is a pig in low light. As to Hearnia's question: I only move in close when I'm shooting in auto in good level light and I know that it has stopped down so I have a great DoF, and in that case it stays sharp up close. Otherwise, its minimum focusing distance is 1.5 yards, and in low light I don't go close up and I pan very slow to minimize the motion blur. In fact, I don't use the Osmo if it's low light, I can tell immediately based on my testing. That's why I use the C100 to intercut close ups, I feel faces and their expressions help tell the story and gives the editor options. I found it brave for the videographer in the above example to bring just an Osmo to Guatemala, but I have been on many of those kind of gigs in terrible heat so I suppose he didn't want to lug around more gear. I would have brought a back up though.
As to sneaking around, that's a specialty of mine. I often have worked for LA folks coming to Chicago and they are amazed that we don't need permits, but that's only if we work fast and nimble and we do it right. And I always have a Plan B. First I remove the handle and lens shade to make it look like a tourist camera. I may bring a mono pod and when I lean it against a lamp post it's as good as my $8K Sachtler. The cops will only hassle you under certain circumstances and when you know what those parameters are you're OK. Building security is worse than the cops, so I eyeball where they and the security cameras are and I work fast. I find it fun! I have been arrested twice in my career: at the Alamo (they don't fool around there) and St. Louis Arch (National Park), both for shooting without a permit, being asked to leave and then caught sneaking in later (no choice), they called the cops and national park service police. I was later released without charges but that's how they instill fear in you, get handcuffed and your rig is thrown in their trunk, driven to the station. However, in Chicago you may end up in jail for several hours until your wife can bail you out and that place is not safe to be!
I once hired a young shooter to replace me on a gig to shoot video for a TV special on a crazy guy, Spiderman climbing the Sears Tower, and he got arrested as a co-conspirator (cops had to close off streets, etc.) and they confiscated his Betacam rig ($60K) and I told him he could use mine till he got his back. I felt bad for him. When authorities confiscate your baby they do not put it in a case, they put it in their car trunk!
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...1_alain-robert-110-story-sears-tower-climbing
I did all the pre-pro and bought him the kind of big suction cups that the plate glass workers use, so he could get up the first 20'. But you'll have to wait until I finish writing my memoirs and buy the book.
Later,
Ned
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I don't really use it for shots closer than 3', it's simple. Like Ned, if I need CUs, the Osmo is the wrong tool. I use it for POV or to follow a moving subject mostly.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Those damn guys with the green jackets and the walkies...They even eyeballed me with the Osmo but they got distracted by someone asking a question and I slipped off. I think they know what an Osmo is because he was definitely eye balling me as I was carrying it. So dumb, I don't know why public areas have such a problem with a person carrying a video camera and low key shooting b-roll? With a crew, talent, etc. sure, I can see that but one person walking with a video camera, give me a break. Every person in the Western Hemisphere is shooting video with their iPhones all over this place but try to use something just a little better and they are all over you.
Mark Smith
Veteran
I have an OSMO (x3 and x5) and a Letus Helix for my C300 Mk2. I use both systems and go back and forth between them frequently. The OSMO with the x5 is a less useful beast because of the larger sensor and and resultant focus management issues. With the X3 camera mounted the OSMO can be pretty useful because of its small size and the ability to throw it together quickly and be shooting. The way the camera uses shutter speed to control exposure can quickly get you into trouble with light changes - go from outdoors to an interior with some aging fluorescent lighting and you'll see what I mean.
The C300 on the Helix is bigger, slower to rig and far more complicated in set up but produces a better result with more control in my experience. Try some moves with the OSMO joystick some time and you'll be in for a treat.
In my way of thinking these 2 devices are similar tools but for different jobs. The OSMO is great if you have to pack light and are really working fast. If you have to shoot dialog or want real image quality a C 300 on a gimbal is the real choice to me.
The C300 on the Helix is bigger, slower to rig and far more complicated in set up but produces a better result with more control in my experience. Try some moves with the OSMO joystick some time and you'll be in for a treat.
In my way of thinking these 2 devices are similar tools but for different jobs. The OSMO is great if you have to pack light and are really working fast. If you have to shoot dialog or want real image quality a C 300 on a gimbal is the real choice to me.
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
Off topic. Are you Americans not allow to shoot in areas where the public has access to? I know one can't just block of a street without a permit but handheld stuff or even a tripod not being in the way should be okay. What kind of restrictions do you encounter?