You mean a MFT version of the S1H ? Personally I too would like full Vlog and parameters showing all the time on the LCD like most camcorders. I have no need for IBIS though always on a tripod. I am sure they could do all I would like with a firmware update though so no need for a new model. I think it will be 6K or 8K with capabilities just like now when it eventually arrives. That will leave them the opportunity for an 8K update to the S1H line.
GH5 GH6 rumors
- Thread starter joe1946
- Start date
Cary Knoop
Veteran
If you don't need IBIS then why not go the BlackMagic route, they have real color management.
See my reply to Bassman. You say the same thing about nearly any feature you could dream of. With or without full V log the camera hit it out of the park, providing amazing value and exceeding the specs and capabilities of many of it’s peers. There is always a limitation , there is always a compromise. Pick your poison. Take any camera out there, it’s missing one thing or another. Black Magic’s can’t do stills... etc.
What happened 20 years ago is highly relevant, it also challenges your thesis. We are living with and benefitting from the consequences of that market disruption- “cartels” be damned. Canon had no video cameras, no shirt in the game. They upset the apple cart big time. They innovated and started a new paradigm of cameras and markets. Sony had to compete and thus the decline in princes and increase in capability began in earnest. Interestingly enough Beta’s decline appears to closely track with the decline of TV news (yay) viewership. A big market for Betacams.
Phones are only a fuller and contemporary expression of the same dynamic in the consumer stills space. Throwing in photographic film as a reference, is not germane to the discussion of Pro video cameras.
If it ever existed, the gig was up in the video camera end of things, 2 decades ago. Of course “Japan INC” isn’t comfortable with the speed of the phone cam market. That’s my point, glad you agree
. Competition comes in many forms, from other established players and new entrants to a market. Phones are just the Canon XL1’s of the late 90’s. First as still cameras, increasingly for motion imagery as well. Not much new under the sun.Bassman2003
Veteran
I was not speaking of giving things away for free. And I was speaking of the camera industry as a whole. The GH5 is actually counter trend. It has a history of listening and adding features that are very meaningful for its users. If you want an example of tricking out features then look no further than Canon. I wonder how my business would be if I ran it like Canon. That is a good study for business school but I have not purchased anything Canon since the 5DMKIII even though I want to if they offered more video features in their hybrids. Nor have I purchased a C-series camera. So their strategy is not working on me.
Imho, this has nothing to do with profitability anymore. The entire industry is going down in sales year after year, but they are saving features in hopes that I might buy an $8-15k camera sometime in the future? The C200 is a great camera. I assume that anybody who ever wanted a C-series camera would have jumped on it. And those who do own it might want a companion hybrid that could be used at the same level to some extent. But no, trickle, trickle, trickle with 8bit codecs cropped 4k. Basically the same stuff smart phones have without the process power and apps.
I am with DLD on this one. The smart phones are adding so much value that a lot of the need for most things images will have the complete perception of DIY instead of hiring somebody. Notice I said perception, but in the end, that is often reality. So this does have effect on ROI for us going forward. Makes me want to only purchase tools that REALLY help and improve my ability to do my work and create a product that is better than the phones. Kind of tough when the camera makers are giving you the same level 8bit etc... I know story is everything and it is about you, not the camera yada, yada, yada but it is also just plain bad investment to buy cameras that will are kind of obsolete now.
I fully expect the GH6 to be a great value, just as the S-series is.
Cell phones have really hit the consumer camera market both for stills and video. None of my family have a stills or video camera anymore. They all use their phones. Both daughters have iPhones and constantly take pictures and video to post what their kids are doing on Facebook. My 16 year old grandson has a OnePlus7 Pro that he is always taking photos with too because the camera is so good. His only other choice of camera is the GoPro. However none of them shoot theatre shows of two hours and make DVD's. That is a totally different task needing different tools. Small consumer cameras were never any good at that either. That market which may have been Betacams at great cost have now been replaced, in my case by two GH5's and a AX100 at a fraction of the cost of one Betacam and I believe all have better performance. We have to be careful we are not generalizing for all segments of the market because one has clearly been replaced with different products. Need to look at the task and what now is the preferred tool. For consumers it is the phone for sure, for photographic hobby I do not think much has changed lenses are still the key and cameras keep changing and bought, My hobby space of shooting amateur theatre tools have got better and cost less , I only just moved from camcorder to GH5's, both cost about the same as the Sony camcorders I used to use but I now have two of them, high end stuff will always use the best available and that market is still there, Indie film makers will use the lowest cost way of making their film and now that is likely BM Pocket or mirrorless, before was a consumer camcorder maybe. What has really changed ? For me I used to spend my hobby money on a new Sony camcorder of about $5000 every two years or so , would have two available at any time for multicam of different vintages. Starting with the VX3 I stayed with Sony until the AX1. For about the same I have two full kitted out GH5's waiting for an 8K camera to add to them. Shooting style has also changed with technology too. Moving from shooting to what is done in editing because we can. Is that why people want RAW ? If you have RAW and the ability to crop/pan/zoom the requirements for the camera change and shooting style and capabilities of the editing software change too. My family do all their editing in their phone and post. Another change.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Because they can't really shoot stills and lots of people still like the concept of a true hybrid camera. That and the ability to get 10bit 4:2:2 at 150 mbps which is very small and visually better than BRAW 12:1.
That's the first I've heard of a traditional compressed format giving any form of BRAW a run for it's money. Having no experience with BRAW myself, where does it fail the test?
Well, if the rumor is true (and it likely is), then it's a bad sign as the Olympus E-M1 III will use the same 20MP sensor as in the E-M1X.
The E-M1X might have well been the most underwhelming camera of 2019, not even matching the older GH5 for video quality (at least according to DP Review) despite having an initial price tag of $3,000.
True, this might be due more to processing power and an emphasis on stills, but considering the camera isn't even a year old, I'm guessing the sensor was/is at least part of the issue.
In any event, it is another indication of stagnation in MFT, and this from the only company still dedicated to the format. While I hope the quality of the EM1-III is a notch higher and will give it the benefit of doubt, it's not the news I was hoping for.
This brings us around to the GH6. Assuming it comes out - and that is an assumption at this point - will it use existing sensor tech (perhaps even the same sensor as the E-M1 III), or will it be something new?
As Canon begins to up their game and Sony lies in wait, can Panasonic afford to recycle existing tech?
https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-yes-the-olympus-e-m1iii-uses-the-same-20mp-e-m1x-sensor/#disqus_thread
The E-M1X might have well been the most underwhelming camera of 2019, not even matching the older GH5 for video quality (at least according to DP Review) despite having an initial price tag of $3,000.
True, this might be due more to processing power and an emphasis on stills, but considering the camera isn't even a year old, I'm guessing the sensor was/is at least part of the issue.
In any event, it is another indication of stagnation in MFT, and this from the only company still dedicated to the format. While I hope the quality of the EM1-III is a notch higher and will give it the benefit of doubt, it's not the news I was hoping for.
This brings us around to the GH6. Assuming it comes out - and that is an assumption at this point - will it use existing sensor tech (perhaps even the same sensor as the E-M1 III), or will it be something new?
As Canon begins to up their game and Sony lies in wait, can Panasonic afford to recycle existing tech?
https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-yes-the-olympus-e-m1iii-uses-the-same-20mp-e-m1x-sensor/#disqus_thread
Bassman2003
Veteran
I can't see any scenario where the GH6 uses an older sensor. Especially the GH5 sensor. The GH5s is not as challenged. I have to say, if the Fuji X-T4 has some game it will give the GH6 a run for its money. The X-T3 turned into quite a nice camera after all of the updates (as did the GH5). If Fuji makes an XLR audio adapter it will be a tough choice between the two. I am big on the audio adapter as it makes the camera a complete tool imho.
Generally speaking, Olympus and Panasonic split the MFT market between each other thusly - Olympus makes photocentric and Panasonic videocentric cameras. EM1 MKIII will have the pixel-shifting multiplier for its stills, likely to be as low as 50 (4 shots) and as high as 80 (16 shots). If EM1 MKIII can avoid image smearing for its 4-stack 50-MPX sequence - and this is all on the internal processing - it'll be a pretty nice, compact action/BiF toy (presuming it has a better auto focus ... or, speaking of BiF, it'll be a dead duck a la 1MX)
Hypothetically speaking, Panasonic can use the same sensor as GH-5 but with much better codecs, including some form of Raw. The rumors, however, had it with a Quad Bayer sensor.
Hypothetically speaking, Panasonic can use the same sensor as GH-5 but with much better codecs, including some form of Raw. The rumors, however, had it with a Quad Bayer sensor.
BobKo
Well-known member
At a camera/photography presentation today, I spoke to a Panasonic Lumix employee about the timeline for the GH6. He said that a MicroFourThirds camera and a full-frame camera would be introduced this year (2020), but the GH5's successor is expected next year (2021). He said that the GH6 (and he didn't blink at the GH6 nomenclature) requires an all-new processor than the one in the GH5, and it is taking time to develop and de-bug this processor.
He seemed honest and forthright enough, but it's still just rumors to me.
He seemed honest and forthright enough, but it's still just rumors to me.
So, here a non rumor (but I am linking to 43Rumors because that's where I read it), two Chinese companies (Yongnuo and Venus Optics) are joining the MFT alliance.
https://www.43rumors.com/yongnuo-me...-the-micro-four-thirds-system-standard-group/
Does this mean bottom is about to fall out of the MFT market? Yongnuo made one barely usable camera but Laowa glass has a decent reputation. Without being a group member, the products have been manual. With the access to the electronic contacts, they'll surely strive for something more advanced.
https://www.43rumors.com/yongnuo-me...-the-micro-four-thirds-system-standard-group/
Does this mean bottom is about to fall out of the MFT market? Yongnuo made one barely usable camera but Laowa glass has a decent reputation. Without being a group member, the products have been manual. With the access to the electronic contacts, they'll surely strive for something more advanced.
stoneinapond
Veteran
No. New companies don't come on board to see the product disappear. However, the Chinese are very price driven and could undercut the Japanese members the same way Vizio and Hisense undercut not only the Japanese TV manufacturers but even the Koreans.
PS. I am sure many ere recall the days when Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Toshiba, Hitachi, JVC and Mitsubishi dominated the CRT, then the Rear Projection, then the LCD and plasma TV production.
Many or any? I looked at B&H and found none. But, being non-MFT members, they weren't licensed to manufacture them either and, had they gone gonzo, a simple firmware tweak could disable them.
Laowa lenses get decent reviews for their value. Would they be able to duplicate the auto-focus performance of their MFT competitors? It's kind of a low-hanging fruit, ain't it?
PS. As I'd mentioned in other threads, Olympus's Imaging Division is a money losing operation and Panasonic shuffles the financials for their imaging into one big pile with appliances. Could then the MFT transition from these two Japanese companies to the Chinese in exchange for the yuan going the other way in exchange for the intellectual assets? I'd say it's a possibility. The Chinese have been known to purchase the rights to the American and the Japanese brand names while shifting the production home to the PRC.
Yongnuo does make some AF lenses --
http://en.yongnuo.com.cn/enwww/article.php?id=5
I might be a signal that Oly/Panny is giving up on lower cost lenses. The new 12-45mm f4 from Olympus one of the more under-whelming recent lens releases in the format, especially given the $650 asking price. Despite its price, it's hardly a higher end lens regardless of its "pro" labeling.
Panasonic's 10-25mm a dream lens, but with a price to match. It was also likely started development before Panny decided to jump into full frame. Given the lack of glass for the S series and the plethora available for MFT, it's not too hard to imagine them concentrating on the former.
So I'd guess that we'll see an occasional high end lens from the big guys, ceding the lower end market to Yongnuo et al.
All in all, the more the merrier.
Panasonic's 10-25mm a dream lens, but with a price to match. It was also likely started development before Panny decided to jump into full frame. Given the lack of glass for the S series and the plethora available for MFT, it's not too hard to imagine them concentrating on the former.
So I'd guess that we'll see an occasional high end lens from the big guys, ceding the lower end market to Yongnuo et al.
All in all, the more the merrier.