GH5 Gh5s or wait for BlackMagic

B

bzz

Active member
Hi there
Currently have gh5 and gh5s - in process of selling gh5 onebay as I do a good bit of event work that requires better low light than gh5 can offer. In a pickle as to whether to wait for BM or invest in 2nd GH5s. Think the gh5s is a great camera overall and I know there is a big difference in terms of initial outlay but I figure when it comes to buying batteries and other accessories that sticking to one manufacturer may in the long run mean a much closer long term cost. For example even coming down to buy an extra battery charger or a training course on getting most from the camera etc..and then there is the added benefit of matching cameras in post etc.. and avoiding a myriad of potential pitfalls....perhaps overestimating this???

If someone was to ask me now is the second camera essential for your work I would have to say not essential but useful as both a backup, b camera angle, time lapse ...so can get by with one but long term def need a second camera as full time professional
Would be interested to hear any advice from the community.
thanks
Barry
 
Haven't used either camera, but in general you're much better off having two of the same model. Nothing beats the convenience of two cameras that produce identical images out of the box. The BMPCC 4K looks like a fantastic camera on paper, but it remains to be seen how good the image is in real life and how well it functions ergonomically. Also, it's anyone's guess as to when it will actually be available for purchasing. If you like your GH5s and need a second camera now, get another GH5s. That's the path with the fewest drawbacks.
 
Jaime's right. I have a BMPCC4K on pre-order because I think it's going to be the best implementation of this sensor, with RAW image to boot. Perfect for my narrative work.

BUT.... with the work you are describing, it makes much more sense to stick with the Panasonics. The right tool for the job should always be the prime consideration.

I'm also holding onto my GH5 because I do a lot of wedding shoots currently where the BMPCC4K would be overkill for file size, and the GH5 has benefits in workflow for that.

Cheers,

Paul :)
 
HI Barry.

I'd go for the GH5s.

First of all, the Pocket 2 is not the same camera, so for what you're saying what you do and it's almost all event work, then I think you're maybe making a rod for your back in trying to use two different cameras in terms of matching the look.

THE GH5s is also likely better suited to this kind of long record time work as well. Do you use AF ?

You could use the pocket in this scenario with some caveats, but adding the complication of matching it do a different camera, then it's probably more work than it's worth for the upside.

JB
 
There are so many operational and rig configuration differences that there's no question to get two GH5s.

Since you are doing event shooting, consider that people are predicting poor battery life for the 4kP and there's no second slot for continuous recording. Both of those may require you to add outboard power and recording boxes.

There's nothing like having backups that both cameras can share. You won't get any of that benefit from two different cameras.

Or...... sell the GH5s and get two 4kPC for almost free.
 
If the 4K pocket is clean @3200 that would be more than enough for me. I have probably used an ISO higher than 6400 twice in my life.

Naturally, you'd expect it to be with a dual-native ISO and a 25,600 maximum...every one of their other cameras have a maximum of 800 or 1600 (like literally as a system setting; not as what's usable, which is more like 400 and 800 depending on the model).

As many of us say...there's low-light and there's no light.
 
If you can wait until the Pocket comes out and see if its worth your while.

Otherwise get the GH5S.

Things you should already know
The pocket will require post noise reduction to be as clean as the GH5S, battery life on the pocket will not be nearly as good, you'll be dealing with much larger file sizes, the sensor crop is more severe then the GH5S.
 
I agree, if you already have a GH5S and like it, then get a second one for B Roll and BU.

1. To set the record straight, the sensor area for 17:9 and 16:9 is the same, no additional crop, unless you use the HD window for over cranking. Both cameras can down res 4K to HD in full gate.

2. The BM PC4K has two slots, One SD and one CFast, and you can do relay recording from one card to the next when recording long events. The PC4K will not record to both slots at the sam time. The PC4K can also record to an external USB-C drive, to get even longer recording times, but as pointed out, external power source would be needed.
Cheers
 
What I'm still waiting to find out about the BMPCC is: In HD mode is it only working in crop mode? No full sensor down sampled to HD? I understand it is basically a 4k camera with HD capability. Some chatter on the ground here in Aust is that HD is only operational in crop mode at all frame rates and not full sensor. That would kill it for a lot of users who may want to use it primarily for HD. If it's anything like the HD crop mode on the GH5s that has similar sensor size specs that ends up in the order of about 2.5 or thereabouts. Anyone found out the answer to this question yet? Full frame or crop mode only in HD.

Chris Young
 
To the OP, if you have two identical cameras are you going to have two identical lenses on them? Of course the answer to that is no.

I have the GH5s and the GH5. It's simplistic to pick one attribute for instance low light, or color and infer too much importance to that one thing. I am being paid to deliver professional quality footage, properly exposed, smooth and stable not shaky, not pulsing auto focus, not distracting lens breathing, not blocked by people standing in front of it. Not everything can be locked down on a tripod, situationally things are dynamic and changing, people wanting impromptu shots or changes. I'll wear a dual camera sling and have a monopod or a tripod or a gimbal in the other hand, or a field recorder and not everything that I've kitted beforehand is perfect for the impromptu situation. There is some overlap in usage scenarios between the monopod and gimbal, but there may be times that the one I'm holding upright happens to be the wrong one, wrong support, wrong camera settings, wrong focal length, wrong shooting mode. I practice extensively, keep a pocket notebook to refer to, both cameras have different sets of pre-loaded settings, both are ready to switch modes at any instant, plus remembering the names, the scenes that have been requested in advance. The client wants the groom's first look upon seeing the bride captured as well the bridal march. How will you do both? Put one on a tripod only to have everyone stand up and block its line of sight at the moment of truth? Which focus mode will you use if you put it on the monopod high above everyone's heads and have to steady it with your hand? Can you reach the camera to focus it? Can you have it focused and composed on one subject while with the other hand panning and tracking a moving subject? There are a lot of unforseen complications that happen in situational realtime that demand your shooting skills to be fully professional, so that you land the shot. I don't have the opportunity to fix anything in post. I hand off the footage to the editor, the vfx, compositor etc. They expect professional quality footage from me.

The GH5s and GH5 are close enough in look you don't have to fret over matching the image. What's important is that the menus are the same, so are the shooting modes, the buttons are in the same location. But the differences between them you can use situationally to your advantage in a split second. Accordingly I feel much better about having these two cameras with complementary capabilities rather than identically matched. One is going to be on the monopod or gimbal the other on the sling. The GH5s footage is not stable enough without external support. The GH5 is not good enough in all low light conditions. Having the backup camera at the ready for those times when I need the alternate features means I grab the one on the sling and start shooting. I can run along with the GH5 because of IBIS. Or I can get a static shot by candle light with the GH5s. But if I limited my versatility by having two identical cameras neither one right for the situation, that's a miss. And what would my reason be for doing it? To make it easier for the editor to match the grade in post? That's his job.

Look at it this way, you can fix the stability problem for the GH5s with a monopod or gimbal, you can fix the low light problem on the GH5 with fast lens glass. Do both and you have some capability overlap. But if you put the fast lens on the GH5s you may have more low light capability than you will use, that's not helping. Or the gimbal may be unnecessary for some normal shooting with the GH5 where IBIS is sufficient. You only have two hands. If one is holding the gimbal but you need the focal length of the lens on the other camera, are you going to set the gimbal on the ground while you change lenses, see it bouncing around like a jumping bean and getting stepped on? That's why my opinion keeping both cams is the best option for me. Having two matched alike of the same kind would be as compromised as having the same two left feet.
 
cyvideo said:
What I'm still waiting to find out about the BMPCC is: In HD mode is it only working in crop mode? No full sensor down sampled to HD? I understand it is basically a 4k camera with HD capability. Some chatter on the ground here in Aust is that HD is only operational in crop mode at all frame rates and not full sensor. That would kill it for a lot of users who may want to use it primarily for HD. If it's anything like the HD crop mode on the GH5s that has similar sensor size specs that ends up in the order of about 2.5 or thereabouts. Anyone found out the answer to this question yet? Full frame or crop mode only in HD.

Chris Young
Click to expand...

You can shoot the full sensor scaled to HD at up to 60 FPS (ProRes)
You can crop to higher frame rates (i think as high as 120) when windowed in HD (RAW or ProRes)

JB
 
Jaime Valles said:
Haven't used either camera, but in general you're much better off having two of the same model. Nothing beats the convenience of two cameras that produce identical images out of the box. The BMPCC 4K looks like a fantastic camera on paper, but it remains to be seen how good the image is in real life
Click to expand...

Another factor to throw in the mix; thinking to do a color science for them (image will be identical)
 
+1 Tom Roper...I would keep both the GH5 and the S instead of taking a loss on the GH5 and then you have the best of both worlds between those cameras...same media, same batteries, same lenses. The BMPC 4K tells us exactly what it is. It is a Cinema camera...short of glaring issues with it, I'll be getting one and between the loss you'd be taking on selling your GH5 and buying another S you are practically looking at the cost of buying the Pocket too. Why keep the GH5...the main reasons I can think of for you are huge to me...ETC in 4K is first on my list as I prioritize lenses over cameras by a large margin, giving you effectively 2 FOVs for each prime you use!....The stealth and speed of getting a shot with IBIS is another huge plus for me, and of course the lack of banding in VFR would be another...I can understand having to grab a low light shot in an emergency, but how many "emergencies" would you go through in a day that one camera can't deal with....a low light shot without lights is still a flat shot, so one camera should suffice to get it...these are only 3 glaring advantages that immediately spring to mind....there are others like shooting open gate etc....what matters most to you, only you can know!
 
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That is what I was thinking. Keep the GH5 and buy a 4k Pocket when it comes out. It is best to make decisions based upon a current need/opportunity than future possibilities.
 
Thanks for all the feedback. I think I have decided against the BM anyway and the pickle I'm left with is whether to sell the gh5 (take a hit on it in terms of cost) and then re-invest in gh5s. The reason for my decision I have recently worked 2 events where the low light became an issue. Normally there is a speakers podium and this is where I lock off one camera (this area was dark) and then the holding area where guests mill about and you pick up the stuff for the 'highlights't package thing. This area too was in low light and I found I was struggling with the 35-100 2.8 in this area so I popped on a prime which then limited focal length and often I like to grab people at distance as some are not too keen to have some one hovering close around...but again few bits of feedback have made me question whether I should persist with gh5 ...thanks anyway for advice
IMO for my work the gh5s is just a far better camera ..I think the image is incredible for what it is...
 
If you need more light gathering, you need more light gathering. If this is a paid situation then the choice is already made for you... :) Imho, the GH5s brings M4/3rds into the event working world. If you need two "A" cams then it is a no brainer to go with the better light gathering option. I was under the impression the GH5 was sort of a "B" cam.
 
Sgttom, the original BM Pocket ca era has a S16 sensor with the 2.88 “crop factor” compared to a FF. The new Pocket 4K is the same large MFT sensor used in the GH5S.
Cheers
 
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