GH5 Announced

Erik Naso said:
I just don't see V Log in it's current state worth paying for but I find it strange to pay for it even if it's improved. I didn't agree with the payed route the first time around either. It's a selling point of the new camera. Panasonic is releasing a 10 bit 422 4K internal recording beast and to not include log? WTF really! With your logic 10 bit 422 should also be a paid option because hey! Not everyone needs it.
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I just think it's ridiculous to complain about it on a $2K camera. A paid upgrade will probably be $100 dollars.

They have to run a business whether it's a consumer camera or not.

This is an extra feature and a luxury.

You always had to pay for this extra stuff:

Want Log in your AMIRA, guess what, $2500.

Want slow-motion in your KineMINI 4K, that will be $699.

Want 4K in a F5/55, add $998 to cart.

Want 4K/60p from a Canon cinema camera, that will be twenty-eight thousand dollars, please.

These are all random examples, but having C-Log, S-Log, V-Log, F-Log, Log C, RED Log, Blackmagic Film, XYZ-ETC-Log all should cost money, but we're spoiled.

So yea, my logic...
 
NorBro said:
I just think it's ridiculous to complain about it on a $2K camera. A paid upgrade will probably be $100 dollars.

They have to run a business whether it's a consumer camera or not.

This is an extra feature and a luxury.

You always had to pay for this extra stuff:

Want Log in your AMIRA, guess what, $2500.

Want slow-motion in your KineMINI 4K, that will be $699.

Want 4K in a F5/55, add $998 to cart.

Want 4K/60p from a Canon cinema camera, that will be twenty-eight thousand dollars, please.

These are all random examples, but having C-Log, S-Log, V-Log, F-Log, Log C, RED Log, Blackmagic Film, XYZ-ETC-Log all should cost money, but we're spoiled.

So yea, my logic...
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The GH5 is a consumer camera. Sony gives this away with their cameras these days. Should Sony charge for it as well? It's not a good idea to break it out like an app. If Panasonic wants to nickel and dime me for v-log I thinks it's s*%tty.
 
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roxics said:
Agreed. It seems like a strange thing to charge for on what is basically still a consumer camera. They aren't charging separately for all the other camera profiles they include. So build the price of developing this into the cost of the camera from the get go like they do those profiles. I feel the same way about Canon leaving out CLog on most of their DSLRs. How much extra can it possibly be on a camera that is already $1000+ dollars and includes several other profiles already? Leave out the vivid profile and give us log if you're only willing to add X number of free profiles with each camera. I'm fine with that.
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It's all about trying to get people to buy the next model up. Look at headphone jacks, for example - a 5 cent part. Usually only cameras over $1000, sometimes way over that, include one. They give you just enough to get you to buy it, and if you need that little tiny bit more you have to spend a lot more money to upgrade.
 
Shenan said:
It's all about trying to get people to buy the next model up. Look at headphone jacks, for example - a 5 cent part. Usually only cameras over $1000, sometimes way over that, include one. They give you just enough to get you to buy it, and if you need that little tiny bit more you have to spend a lot more money to upgrade.
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Of course, Panasonic doesn't have a step-up model in this case.

My take is that they want to hit a certain price point here and V-log is something that will help them with their margins on top of that.

What makes this model more interesting is that it now faces a lot of competition from OMD 1 MKII, Fuji XT-2 and Sony A6300. When GH4 came out in the spring of 2014, there was nothing in the same price range. Now, the market share battle is fully on.

PS. Nikon D500 is kind of, sort of in the same niche (if it adds an internal Log, which it won't). Plus, there are several bridges like Sony duo of RX100 II/III, the new FZ2500, the much delayed Nikon DL line, Panasonic G7, G85 and GX 8, etc. The only wide gap that remains in the 4K lineup is in the high four figure/low five figure pro cameras, where FS-7 is fending off C300 MKII. And even there, BMD URSA Mini/4.6, Red Raven and Red Scarlet W are filling in.
 
I wish manufacturers would offer other features a la cart like they do with vlog...like unlocking a 5 cent headphone jack. Those who don't need it get cam for less. Those who do can enable it.
I would resist the notion that any manufacturer gives anything away.
 
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I'm surprised that people are good with paying extra for a log profile. It makes ZERO sense to me. The MFT format is some what a stepchild to S35 let alone full frame and no other camera in those formats are charging for a log profile and to be honest the first one sucked and I didn't get a refund for buying it.
 
dustylense said:
I just need a camera that will do my tax return for me. I make money with the cameras I own instead of bitching about cameras that aren't even public yet.

We've never had it so easy and with so many options.
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I get it. Trust me I appreciate a lot where camera tech has advanced but you do realize that Panasonic released the GH5 specs with a 6 month window for release and not a fixed price or codec and media for good reason right? They are taking note of what potential buyers are saying about the GH5 specs released. This gives them an advantage to release the camera with sellable features potential buyers are willing and excited about buying. So yeah talk it up about this camera because it's a good chance someone "is" listening.....
 
Erik, it's half empty, half full concept. I guess you take it as being charged "extra" when others view it as being able to opt out of the cost.
Which..if it "sucks", is a good option, no?
 
Gweilo66 said:
Erik, it's half empty, half full concept. I guess you take it as being charged "extra" when others view it as being able to opt out of the cost.
Which..if it "sucks", is a good option, no?
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Ha! Well if I didn't have to pay for it and it sucked than yes!

I think it's lame and not really a savings but a crappy thing to charge for. Maybe if it's $10 then sure, but $100 or more is just strange to me. I guess I'm in the minority here so I hope you guys enjoy the extra expense if thats what it comes to but I personally feel I didn't get my money's worth the first time around and Panasonic should include it with the GH5 this time.
 
"if I didn't have to pay for it and it sucked than yes!"
There ya go..
So much to wait and see with this. Especially if, as you suggest, they are testing the waters. You know..to me it seems odd to on one hand call it a beast of a camera then quibble over $100 "extra". Isn't the GH line typically fair amount less expensive than competition?
Open mind ;)
 
Gweilo66 said:
I wish manufacturers would offer other features a la cart like they do with vlog...like unlocking a 5 cent headphone jack. Those who don't need it get cam for less. Those who do can enable it.
I would resist the notion that any manufacturer gives anything away.
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This was a great direction that I felt everyone was heading in.

Kinefinity was the one that really offered a lot (but maybe some other companies did too with various options that I don't know about.)

But with Kinefinity, you could unlock things like SDI, WIFI, phantom power!, add HFR and/or 4K, etc.

It's an amazing concept of having one powerful camera and being able to unlock certain features in it or at least license them if you needed them for a single shoot.

Maybe pay $20 for 4K/60p for one day instead of $1000 for an upgrade. Wouldn't that be cool?

But then a company like Blackmagic came along and changed a lot. Very few knew what RAW or 10-bit ProRes was a few years ago and now everyone thinks a camera should have ProRes or RAW in it, lol.

I was shooting 4K/80p (80 frames) on a big URSA in 2014 and wasn't really following other cameras. When I stopped shooting on it, I was shocked to learn other cameras didn't offer at least 4K/60p. Like I truly did not understand it...this was 2014. So spoiled.

Sony offering S-Log in the little cameras was probably a big reason why Leica-Log and Fuji-Log were engineered, and why V-Log even exists in the GH4. That was a terrific move by them...but now they can never make another semi-serious camera again without offering S-Log.

At least Panasonic can charge for V-Log and have a little separation.

Don't really know where I am going with this....but it looks like Kinefinity stopped their in-camera upgrades with the Terra 5K and 6K and are now heading in more of a direction like RED, but yea...it would have been great to see that upgrade model in other cameras.
 
Gweilo66 said:
"if I didn't have to pay for it and it sucked than yes!"
There ya go..
So much to wait and see with this. Especially if, as you suggest, they are testing the waters. You know..to me it seems odd to on one hand call it a beast of a camera then quibble over $100 "extra". Isn't the GH line typically fair amount less expensive than competition?
Open mind ;)
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Hmm... well do you know how much the GH5 will be? What if it's $3200? Does this change anything?

This really is all BS and fun to talk about but the first run with charging for log didn't go so well and thinking the second time around will be better is wishful thinking. It's how I feel and I don't expect people to agree. This is a new development outside of the specs released today that I think are fantastic. I just don't agree with paying for a log profile.
 
"Hmm... well do you know how much the GH5 will be? What if it's $3200? Does this change anything?"
It makes $100 a tiny fraction of the cost ;)..and you know damn well base cam will be nowhere near that.
Eh..just relax and see how it unfolds. (you would pay for a log profile if it was "included" anyways)
 
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Yep, it doesn't make sense to charge extra for vlog. GH5 will be their flagship camera facing harsh competition form almost every direction so why cripple it intentionally?
$100 bucks won't help Panasonic financially a lot and truthfully won't hurt customers terribly either, but it sure is bad PR they don't need, especially since Sony includes slog in every camera they release.
 
brudney said:
Yep, it doesn't make sense to charge extra for vlog. GH5 will be their flagship camera facing harsh competition form almost every direction so why cripple it intentionally? ...
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This really depends on where the final price ends up. $1,200 + $100 may be one thing. $1,600 + $1,000 may be another.

BTW, Kinefinty and Red do offer hardware based modularity. That is usually accepted by the consumers - "You want a sunroof and a rubber floor mat? It's $3,000 extra. $2,500 for the floor mat alone" - but paid firmware is usually frowned upon.
 
I don't have a problem with paying extra for vlog either, as long as it works great and the total package price is acceptable. The real problem is, if it doesn't work, or it doesn't do what you want it to do. If GH5 with V-log is <$2k and has the dynamic range of the VariCam LT and clean ISO 800, it may be an instant buy for me. If it has less DR than the competition (Sony a7S II or whatever comes next), I'm not interested, and including V-log in the price (or 10-bit 422 for that matter) won't change that.
 
It's possible that Panasonic is using the paid V-Log upgrade as a way of tracking how popular this feature is and as a way of making sure that the people using it know what it is. ( i.e. you won't pay extra for something if you don't know what it is )
 
The issue I have with the v-log paid upgrade is that it is a horrible convoluted process to pay for the upgrade. v-log for the GH4 was out of stock everywhere for months recently. I really think the process or trying to physically get my hands on it is very off putting to a lot of people. I honestly feel like it was some sort of adventure and great achievement on my part that I finally got my hands on it.

In terms of price I consider v-log to be worth every penny. Yes it is a bit weak with the internal recorder but externally even with a cheap HD external recorder it is phenomenal. To me it's like having a whole new camera. I don't use v-log just to slap a LUT on it. I grade manually and v-log in it's current flavor gives me a huge amount of range to work with in post. It really is a gorgeous flat 10bit format to work with if you grade manually. Not raw but the grading method is getting much closer to that of a raw workflow. With v-log on the GH4 I'm honestly ok not having raw right now since I have the range and color I now need to do with the shot as I please. I still have to white balance carefully and I have to be careful to expose within a certain range but once you do that the sky is the limit in terms of grading for the shadows, highlights, mids or color style. Those just slapping on a LUT are not giving v-log a fair chance.

Yes for heavens sake use it with a 10bit external recorder. Any log format is weak with 8bit. The entire concept means you are stretching the life out of an already thin 8bit format. V-log could have been designed to take more advantage of the 8bit space but I'm glad it wasn't. It is a flatter form of log compared to other forms out there and when used with 10bit is an exceptional format to use. It would have been nice if Panasonic created two optimized forms of v-log like Sony has multiple forms of S-log. One optimized for 8bit and one optimized for 10bit would have been great but they didn't do that. They played towards the better quality option which is to optimize for 10bit. I'm really glad they did because it means better quality for those of us who use 10bit recorders.
 
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