GH4 GH4 V-log?

[DLD]

Hmm. Interesting but it's not using the floating sensor it does in stills mode - it's just an electronic stabilisation applied to the image surface. Which is very different and I suspect not great for image quality (and perhaps not much better than applying stabilisation in post). As IR say, the GH4 is still the video flagship by a margin.

It needs a lot of processing power to do so and it looks like GX8 doesn't have enough.

On the same note, the on-sensor stabilization is the same technology as pixel shifting for higher res. It is offered on some high end cams like Hasselblad and a far more affordable Olympus EM5 MK II. Both have Sony sensors, as does GX8. So, why doesn't GX8 offer a pixel shifting option for an improved res? I would think one has to thank Sony for that.

But this does leave GH5 with something to look forward to. Let's say a 22 MPX sensor has that pixel shifting technology that can deliver a ~ 60 MPX quality image in real time (Olympus says they will be able to do it on their next generation cameras) and that will make it a far more capable stills product to go along with all the video.

 

[Rylan Zolinski]

I wish the new G7 4K got this. My gf bought it for me for my bday and while it's a lovely little camera, its flattest profile isn't flat at all. Sigh...

 

[Lintel]

Obviously not enough. A $200 upgrade is pretty small change when you factor in what a typical shooting kit costs.

I think the only $200 item that I use on a regular basis is a used Nikon 50mm f/1.4 AI-S, everything else costs a heck of a lot more.

SD cards? Batteries? Videomic Pro? Rode NTG-2? Rode Lav? Z-Finder? Cage? Camera bag? LED light? Video monopod? I paid less than $200 for all of these essential things, and the list goes on and on. And then there's software (which is what V-Log is)- ****, FCPX only costs $300! Colour Finale is $100. Resolve is FREE. Motion 5 is $50. I can do without V-Log - I can't do without any of the above. And it all adds up. It quickly becomes $1000, and I can assure you V-Log will be the first thing to get struck off my list. I NEED several other things in this price bracket to do my job properly.

I'm not paying $200 for a bit more dynamic range in a camera I bought because I like the image as it is. I'm happy $200 is small change to you. For me I'd rather take my wife and kid away for the weekend and buy the kit I actually need.

 

[Boon]

For those who really need it, I'm sure they will pay if Panny price is reasonable.
However, not every GH4 owner will ever need or appreciate V-log. I say it will be free from Panny.

 

[TheDingo]

I can do without V-Log

So can I, but I'm happy to invest another $200 in my GH4 to get another F-stop in dynamic range and better color accuracy.

More than any other piece of gear I own, the V-log upgrade will improve the look of every shot I make with my camera, so this is a big deal to me.

 

[Lintel]

So can I, but I'm happy to invest another $200 in my GH4 to get another F-stop in dynamic range and better color accuracy.

More than any other piece of gear I own, the V-log upgrade will improve the look of every shot I make with my camera, so this is a big deal to me.

Well that's fine by me - but now you're talking about yourself. I took issue with the fact you were speaking for GH4 users collectively!

 

[TheDingo]

Well that's fine by me - but now you're talking about yourself. I took issue with the fact you were speaking for GH4 users collectively!

What I originally wrote was...

I think that most of us who specifically want the V-log upgrade won't mind paying a reasonable fee for it, even if this costs an additional $200.

And I still believe this. I am specifically addressing the GH4 owners that want V-log, as I am sure there are many GH4 owners who don't care about V-log because they don't want the hassle of having to apply LUTs and/or grading to their footage to make it usable. ( or aren't prepared to pay extra for this type of technology )

 

[Lintel]

I still believe this. I am specifically addressing the GH4 owners that want V-log, as I am sure there are many GH4 owners who don't care about V-log because they don't want the hassle of having to apply LUTs and/or grading to their footage to make it usable. ( or aren't prepared to pay extra for this type of technology )

But I do want V-Log! I really want V-Log! I'll pay for it, I just personally won't pay $200 dollars for it because I don't believe that is an appropriate price (as I've already explained in great detail). My GH4 is probably half way through it's life with me, and V-Log will not be transferrable when I replace it. All of the other stuff I listed above? I can use the majority of that for as long as I want to. $200 is not a good ROI. I'd pay a max of about $80 I reckon. Not because I don't "want it badly enough," but because of principles, priorities, and limited means. Perhaps we should end this back and fourth and just agree to disagree?

BTW you don't "grade" footage to make it useable. You correct it.

 

[John Godden]

They purported to be selling about 5,000 units monthly, forcing them to open a new manufacturing line just for GH4 in the summer of 2014. And 5,000/mo is a huge number for a $1,700 Panasonic camera (not so huge for Canon and Nikon, however).

I wonder what the current production volume is?

With the GH5 delivery likely <=12 months away, a new lower "formal price", and new cams (BM, Sony, etc) attacking this market segment I'm sort of inclined to believe that sales #'s are likely tapering. Just my WAG though .................. FWIW, I've been vacillating on purchasing a GH4 but this vlog monkey-biz sort of seals the deal on waiting for the GH5. Long time Pani owner but this is just too much drama for me.

cheers
JohnG

 

[DLD]

I wonder what the current production volume is?

With the GH5 delivery likely <=12 months away, a new lower "formal price", and new cams (BM, Sony, etc) attacking this market segment I'm sort of inclined to believe that sales #'s are likely tapering. Just my WAG though .................. FWIW, I've been vacillating on purchasing a GH4 but this vlog monkey-biz sort of seals the deal on waiting for the GH5. Long time Pani owner but this is just too much drama for me.

cheers
JohnG

If one judges from B&H's mirrorless ranking, it's still going very strong, albeit yielding the top spot to A7RII recently. I reckon their manufacturing costs are way down from where they had began and they couldn't have been that high to begin with. Just as a reference, GH3 is now retailing for $600 and that's almost three years after its launch. GH4, likewise, should soldier on for a long time, even when there are newer products hitting the market.

 

[TheDingo]

My GH4 is probably half way through it's life with me, and V-Log will not be transferrable when I replace it.

When the GH5 comes out, I'll sell my GH3 and my GH4 will become my B-camera for the next 2 years, so for me a $200 investment that I will be using for the next 2 years seems like a good deal, and when I go to sell my GH4 the V-log upgrade will make my used GH4 easier to sell than a GH4 without it.

 

[astromann]

Actually with all the debate about wether V-Log should be free or not...all Panny has to do is release V-Log for free and at the same time release some special
V-Log LUTS that they charge for...maybe an Alexa Style one...some cinematic color styles etc..and I'll bet they would sell gazillions of those.
This is a proven business Model Daz3d for example give away Daz Studio for free, and its multiple times more powerful and versatile than any V-Log software...many many times..
but they charge for all the content and addons, fairly cheap too, and they seem to be going from strength to strength.
Its a simple enough thing...give away the V-Log, then make some exotic and powerful custom LUTS and sell them for a reasonable price..

And Yeah I checked about a week ago...and the GH4 was still No1 best selling Mirrorless cam at B&H, so yeah its obviously sold a lot and is selling well, they
are in a perfect postion to capatilize on that with V-Log custom Panny LUTS

 

[Mike Harvey]

...I reckon their manufacturing costs are way down from where they had began and they couldn't have been that high to begin with...

I'm not an engineer, nor do I play one on TV, nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night... but considering the GH4, XC1000, and soon the DVX200 are all 4k cameras sharing the exact same file formats, I'm going to venture to guess that there are a bunch on common internals taken from the GH4 and put into those other cameras. If the DVX200 sells like a lot of folks think it is, I'm going to wager the per unit manufacturing costs are about to get even lower withing the next few months.

 

[DLD]

I'm not an engineer, nor do I play one on TV, nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night... but considering the GH4, XC1000, and soon the DVX200 are all 4k cameras sharing the exact same file formats, I'm going to venture to guess that there are a bunch on common internals taken from the GH4 and put into those other cameras. If the DVX200 sells like a lot of folks think it is, I'm going to wager the per unit manufacturing costs are about to get even lower withing the next few months.

Not just them. Think of all the Panasonic 4K models, from the new FZ300 on the low end to DVX200 on the high, with FZ1000, G7, GX8 and GH4 in between. (LX1 may be a tad different) Sensor in, sensor out and everything else is basically the same, sort of like Ford Focus from their basic 160 HP sedan to that crazy 345 HP RS sports coup version that will come out in 2016. They tweak a few things here and there - in the camera, it may be a different FPGA - but, by and large, it's the same assembly for a model's entire 4-5 year run. Then again, this has to be the case across the entire photo industry, which is why the profit margins on the cameras themselves are so huge, why so much self-crippling is necessary and why all these hacks and mods make so much difference..

 

[Mike Harvey]

This was posted in one of the DVX200 threads... the relevance for this thread being that it was shot in Vlog-l and the same 4k codec the GH4 has. Thought some of you might appreciate it...

 

[blazer003]

This was posted in one of the DVX200 threads... the relevance for this thread being that it was shot in Vlog-l and the same 4k codec the GH4 has. Thought some of you might appreciate it...

It may very well be placebo effect, but I love that image, and it appears to have more DR. Of course I'm very happy with how a lot of my GH4 footage comes out, but (again, maybe placebo) that footage just seems to have a little extra filmic oomph. (How's that for scientificly quantifiable IQ measurement?)

 

[Barry_Green]

Keep in mind a couple of things -- the DVX200 uses a more modern sensor than the GH4 does, and while the codecs are similar in many cases, this footage was shot in a mode that the GH4 can't do -- it was shot in 4K/50P and slowed down in post. So the GH4 doesn't have that mode, it can't do 4K/50p.

 

[Mike Harvey]

Barry, point taken... both on the 4k/50 and newer sensor. However, the GH4 sensor is still pretty darn good, so seeing that it *might* produce similar (though not the same) results is heartening.

 

[wwjd]

hmmm that film looks fine - not amazing to me. more on the dull, colorless side. I'm sure it is the choice of grading, but real life has more POP that I see... better greens, blues browns.... everything seemed flat color wise. But, I am biased as well, for not being a fan of the "indie washed out" or "flat" look for footage. It was probably graded as it is for the mood or asthetic. I will guess there is too much RED in it. Again, grading choice that is not wrong, just not cool to me.

 

[Barry_Green]

Barry, point taken... both on the 4k/50 and newer sensor. However, the GH4 sensor is still pretty darn good, so seeing that it *might* produce similar (though not the same) results is heartening.

Roger that, no worries. Just wanted to point out the pedantics so people were fairly informed about the differences between what the DVX200 did, and the GH4 will be able to do...