GH4 GH4 V-log?
- Thread starter Kindredmachine
- Start date
Batutta
Major Contributor
The bounce was the white side of a collapsible reflector disc mounted on a boom arm. No issues using idynamic at low on CineV. CineV crushes the blacks already so using idynamic at low and shadow+3 only brings them back to baseline. It also helps keep highlights controlled a little. I think idynamic's bad rep comes from using it with CineD or a contrast lowered profile, which raises black too far and introduces noise. Full profile here is Cine V (-1, -2,-5,-3,0). Luminance 0-255, idynamic low, Shadow+3. I ride the contrast setting up and down a bit depending on which lens I use. I have some vintage lenses that need a bit more contrast. All I did to this shot in post was boost the contrast a little. The actual image was a bit flatter.
After seeing the latest examples using V-LOG I think I should start working on my D-LOG workflow again. 
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?336957-dLOG-(a-vLOG-replacement-somehow)
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?336957-dLOG-(a-vLOG-replacement-somehow)
Lintel
Active member
Superb, thanks for the extra info. I generally lower the highlight curve to minus 5 to improve roll-off - any reason you haven't done that?
Batutta
Major Contributor
I think it impacted skin tones ever so slightly and didn't benefit highlights much so I left it. idynamic pushes down highlights as well as lifting shadows so I think it does the same job. You might want to experiment. I arrived at these settings by plugging my camera into my home theater projector, which I've calibrated using a Spyder, setting up in the back of the room with a soft light on my face and fiddling with profiles until I got an image that looked right to me. I was surprised when it was CineV. CineD with the contrast at +4 was a runner up, but CineV seemed to lift the midtones in a more pleasing way, and bring out a bit more detail in skin.
Lintel
Active member
Cool thanks. I just tried your Cine-V vs my usual customised Natural profile on my wife's face and it's definitely an improvement (for shooting people at least). Reds in general are much better and there's a lot more DR in the skin. I'll probably wait for V-Log before getting too involved in messing with profiles again though. This does make me think V-Log could be as problematic as the others though. Skin in that Camera Store video is very salmony and one-dimensional. Who knows ...
Frantikthegod
Active member
0_o 
Frantikthegod
Active member
Which Kodak Lut?
Frantikthegod
Active member
Before [Ungraded]
After Kodak Elite Chrome 200/Slight Curves adjustment/Power Window
BTW- the source files are from Nick Driftwood.
After Kodak Elite Chrome 200/Slight Curves adjustment/Power Window
BTW- the source files are from Nick Driftwood.
I'm not understanding all this. The pics are different angles of people, darker and lighter settings (ISO? Shutter?), then graded? Can't folk alter skin tones in grading? More red or less or more orange whatever? Do we WANT the V-log L to be equal to sony log, or good on its own camera?
They all look completely usable to me.
They all look completely usable to me.
Frantikthegod
Active member
I think it's just a compare and contrast to what people have been able to use and are familiar with [sLog2] and what people [other than the few beta testers] haven't been able to touch yet- which is obiously V-Log L.
Frantikthegod
Active member
Frantikthegod
Active member
I agree, definitely looking forward to a true log picture style on the GH4.. Wish it would come soon though lol. Have a feature documentary I start filming for this month. But I got the files from Nick Driftwood on Twitter.
Raz B
Member
If anyone is interested to know the answer to Nick Driftwood's comparison video:
Most people seem to think the right image was taken with the GH4 and the left with the A7s (I am among those by the way). While I don't have experience with the A7s, I have worked with S-Log2 and 3 on Sony's cinema cameras before and therefore had a feeling this looks like S-Log2 on the left. Never had any experience whatsoever with V-Log from Panasonic, however I do own a GH4 and could see some characteristics I'm familiar with on the right image.
Must say that I hoped to find out the right is in fact the GH4. I liked that right image better than the left by appearance, at least for this specific scene.
So now let's cut to the end: Left is A7s. Right is GH4. Period.
How do I know that so certain and sure? That is most simple.
Driftwood mentioned the exact LUT files he used for each camera. I simply downloaded the 4K video from YouTube and applied those LUTs myself in Premiere Pro (to both sides together).
I have attached grabbed frames so you can see for yourself.
No LUT applied - from Driftwood's original video
VLog_to_V709_forV35_ver100 LUT
1.From_SLog2-SGumut_To_LC-709 LUT
Driftwood applied LUTs - from the original video
The answer is of course very clear after seeing the results, but what I find to be very interesting as well is the fact the two cameras can be matched rather well just by applying the same LUT files to them. With the proper grading and matching tools I believe the two can match and blend together amazingly well.
Most people seem to think the right image was taken with the GH4 and the left with the A7s (I am among those by the way). While I don't have experience with the A7s, I have worked with S-Log2 and 3 on Sony's cinema cameras before and therefore had a feeling this looks like S-Log2 on the left. Never had any experience whatsoever with V-Log from Panasonic, however I do own a GH4 and could see some characteristics I'm familiar with on the right image.
Must say that I hoped to find out the right is in fact the GH4. I liked that right image better than the left by appearance, at least for this specific scene.
So now let's cut to the end: Left is A7s. Right is GH4. Period.
How do I know that so certain and sure? That is most simple.
Driftwood mentioned the exact LUT files he used for each camera. I simply downloaded the 4K video from YouTube and applied those LUTs myself in Premiere Pro (to both sides together).
I have attached grabbed frames so you can see for yourself.
No LUT applied - from Driftwood's original videoVLog_to_V709_forV35_ver100 LUT1.From_SLog2-SGumut_To_LC-709 LUTDriftwood applied LUTs - from the original videoThe answer is of course very clear after seeing the results, but what I find to be very interesting as well is the fact the two cameras can be matched rather well just by applying the same LUT files to them. With the proper grading and matching tools I believe the two can match and blend together amazingly well.
Lintel
Active member
Genius. From these shots the GH4 looks noticeably better IMO - unsurprising considering it's 10bit, but also dynamic range HERE appears better on the right, colour is better ,shadow noise is better, resolution is better. As a GH4 owner I'm very happy you confirmed this - thanks!
Now Panasonic, release V-Log!!!!
Sony's big problem using S-Log 2 on 8 bit a7s is that it's too flat and doesn't contain enough color information. It's almost as unrecoverable as Cine-D with all settings set to -5 and highlight shadows -5/+5!
But there's an easy fix to this: Using Kholi's PicPro S-Log profile. It's in this forum.
But there's an easy fix to this: Using Kholi's PicPro S-Log profile. It's in this forum.
Raz B
Member
Would be interesting to see the difference between the internal 8-bit H.264 to the 10-bit ProRes from the Shogun when it comes to V-Log. Logic says you would more likely to see the benefit of 10-bit with a log profile.
The GH4's V-Log shot looks indeed much better to my eyes here, more pleasing. Even more when you have a chance to examine it closely.
The facial detail under the shadowed area (under the hat) seems to break up with the S-Log2 LUT - ON BOTH CAMS. I would say it is somewhat worse on the GH4 (right image), however it was not designed for V-Log and looks brighter overall which may be the cause to reveal more artefacts. For me it is more disappointing to see it breaks on the A7s as the LUT was designed for S-Log2.
In terms of dynamic range it is hard to judge. Unfortunately we don't get to see the sky on the GH4 frame which could have suggested how it handles the highlights.
By the way, is it just me or does the V-Log LUT look better on both cameras?