GH4 GH4 4K screening at Hot Rod Cameras / Blacklist last night

Shenan

Well-known member
I was expecting to see a thread about this here. Did any other DVXUSERs go? I was there, and here are the details, and my thoughts:

All the shots made for(?) the screening were shot internal DCI 4K 24p with pre-release firmware and Cine-D profile, and all footage was shown on a 4K cinema projector on a 10(?) foot screen in a professional post-production screening room. I was sitting on the front row, I would say about 12-15 feet away from the screen. Caveat that I'm not a professional cinematographer or colorist, but just an enthusiast with some training who reads a lot about this stuff.

What was shown: One daylight exterior shot on the GH4 with a model, some foliage, and some houses on the background, with a patch of sunlight on the siding of one of the houses that was way overexposed (they said 5 stops overexposed), which they said they left in so we could see what that looked/behaved like. They showed this shot both graded and ungraded. From what could be determined from this shot (i.e. there was no camera motion so couldn't evaluate that), everything looked fine to me. There was lots of detail, like individual hair strands that were floating away from the model's head, on a loose medium shot. DR was hard to really evaluate from viewing for a few seconds, but I recall there was plenty of detail in the dark foliage behind the model. The overexposed area on the house looked nuclear, as to be expected, but hard to determine falloff, because it seemed like a sharp sunlight patch.

All the remaining shots were of the same model in front of a greenscreen, lit indoors. This shot they repeated on the GH4 at 4K, Arri Alexa at 2.8K(?), RED Epic Dragon at 6K, Canon 5D mkIII (ML Raw - 1080p?) and Canon 1DC at 4K. The same lens was used for every shot (Schneider Xenon). They color corrected for both the skin tones and the greenscreen, at this professional post-production facility.

The 1DC footage was shown graded two different ways, because they could not get a grade that was suitable for both skin tone and greenscreen, so they targeted them separately. On the skintone grade, the greenscreen looked fairly bluish. On the greenscreen grade, the skintone looked sickly, IIRC. Other than that, all the other cameras looked fairly similar. The main noticeable difference was the sharpness/detail: the Dragon and GH4 looked sharpest, then 1DC and Alexa, and finally 5D, as to be expected. There was a seam on the greenscreen that was a visible fine black line on the sharpest cameras that was almost completely invisible on the least sharp cameras. I thought the colors looked good on all the cameras except the 1DC. What I could see of the DR on the model's hair, face, and eyes was inconclusive because of the brief screening.

In the end, it seemed to me that if you were willing to adjust sharpness, grading, and perhaps lighting, you could cut the Dragon, Alexa, and GH4 together. The 1DC and 5D would be tougher because of color and sharpness differences, respectively. That's just my amateur opinion, based on what was shown.

Finally, they showed the Panasonic Yucatan, Mexico promo video in UHD 29.97, and it looked fantastic!

I think that the people criticizing the camera so far are off the mark. There were people all over the nofilmschool article about this screening complaining that the camera doesn't look cinematic, and I think they just haven't seen something made to look specifically cinematic yet. I think this camera will be a great low-budget filmmaker's tool, and even for specific uses on big-budget films too (crash cam, tight spaces, drones, etc)
 
Thanks for the report! Your post lead me to read the nofilmschool comments section and those were 'interesting'.
 
As you say you are an enthusiast not an expert, all the same you are making conclusions about the Canon 1d c. I own both cameras and the GH4 while it has it's uses, and is a decent camera is no 1d c. I like the Gh4 for many reasons, but to suggest that there is a significant shortcoming in the 1d c because the people running the demo could not make it work is frankly amateur hour. "reading about this stuff" and knowing how to use these tools within their limitations are very different things. That being said if you do want to learn to be a DP I couldn't think of a better way to enter that world than buying a GH4 and shooting the s*%t out of it- cheap to buy and cheap to operate.
 
Whoah, don't shoot the messenger! I was just relaying what they (post-production professionals) had experienced and what I saw regarding a specific scenario of grading for skin tones AND green screen together. Hammering me for being an amateur, something I disclosed from the beginning, was unnecessary.

Edit: I think that anyone that was there, professional or amateur, would have relayed what was presented last night in a similar fashion. The only part that is conjecture on my part is whether it would be tough to cut the 1DC together with Dragon and Alexa. In that regard you are right that I'm not really qualified to say.
 
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I attended the event and all the cameras looked pretty good on the ~20ft screen. I picked up a GH4 from Hot Rod on Tuesday. Did a quick test with a friend who shoots Red Epic and the GH4 is a lot sharper out of the camera. Not clear if more actual detail, though some post blurring or camera filters will be useful for certain close up (face) shots. His comment after a quick grade test was DR is limited and the image is fragile. Thus shooting in camera closer to desired look will be helpful vs. a post-heavy workflow. I will shoot more today.
 
I have ZERO DOUBT the GH4 would look great projected at 2k or 4k in real movie theaters. In a recent festival, I got to see my crappy Canon T3i HD projected in a real digital theater, and it looked freaking fantastic! Only thing wrong was script, sets, acting, coloring.... :D but the IMAGE looked as good as any movie I'd seen. Even from Canon's fake, crippled version of "HD". NO DOUBT GH4 would stand up well on large projection - IF the content was equally matched. I plan to use it for exactly that.
 
I attended the event and all the cameras looked pretty good on the ~20ft screen. I picked up a GH4 from Hot Rod on Tuesday. Did a quick test with a friend who shoots Red Epic and the GH4 is a lot sharper out of the camera. Not clear if more actual detail, though some post blurring or camera filters will be useful for certain close up (face) shots. His comment after a quick grade test was DR is limited and the image is fragile. Thus shooting in camera closer to desired look will be helpful vs. a post-heavy workflow. I will shoot more today.

From what I understand, both things are to be expected because the RED shoots raw. The compressed files from the GH4 are going to be much less gradable, by definition. Similarly, the footage coming directly from the RED camera is going to be a bit soft, again because it's raw, with no sharpening whatsoever applied. In contrast, the GH4 sharpens internally so you never get a chance to see what it would look like raw, unsharpened. Matt from Panasonic actually pointed this out when someone in the crowd said that the GH4 was sharper than a RED, and he also even explained that the GH4 is still sharpening even if you turn the sharpness setting all the way down. I think it was the same guy that was claiming that the GH4 was going to be a RED/Arri killer that also claimed that the GH4 was sharper. :\

It's kind of funny. The panasonic rep was a lot more level-headed and realistic about the camera than some people that get carried away with some wild ideas.
 
Thanks for the report. And I say yet again, sharpness and resolution are not my main concern with these modern cameras - if anything, I think it's overkill. When I find myself having to soften the image on closeups of actresses, and when I see everything look very digital, I think it's gone too far... now I have to look for older glass (modern stills lenses often have the same excess sharpness problem when used for video), I don't like filters and don't want to fuss in post adding softness. Again - Panasonic (and other camera companies) - I'll trade in some of the resolution for more dynamic range and low-light, please!
 
Thanks for the report. And I say yet again, sharpness and resolution are not my main concern with these modern cameras - if anything, I think it's overkill. When I find myself having to soften the image on closeups of actresses, and when I see everything look very digital, I think it's gone too far... now I have to look for older glass (modern stills lenses often have the same excess sharpness problem when used for video), I don't like filters and don't want to fuss in post adding softness. Again - Panasonic (and other camera companies) - I'll trade in some of the resolution for more dynamic range and low-light, please!

HEAR HEAR!!!!!

Ive been shooting with the GH3 for a while now, mainly with the 12-35 and 35-100. I find that while the combination produces nice images, it's a bit clinical and not really my cup of tea.

I too have been looking at older, less contrasty glass and liking some of the results. Dynamic Range is the most important thing for me. While many say the film look is 24p or shallow DOF etc, I say Dynamic Range is one of the biggest factors. Narrow DR and over sharpening just looks video. I'm all for UHD, 4K etc, but not overly sharp images. Resolution and sharpness are two very different things to me.

So, I've said it before, give me 1080p in a 422 codec (or RAW) and 12+ stops of Dynamic Range in a DSLR form factor and i'll be happy. BM are close to delivering, but the ergonomics and quirks with their cameras operationally stops me from buying one.
 
Light fall off is where it's at. As long as there is a smooth transition from light to dark then DR can be easily faked. There are film stocks that don't necessarily have good DR like these cameras but they still look like film. DR is not everything and neither is sharpness (look at the Arri Alexa). Not saying a camera like the Alexa is not sharp.....but it's not the sharpest. It's soft yest detailed...sort of like.....film. I used to like the HVX200's images because they were...um...soft. I realized it's really a combination of things that make video look like film. But DR is not the magic bullet. I guarantee there will be more high DR cameras in the next few years...and then folks will claim something new is the magic bullet. DR today is like Shallow DOF yesterday. I think we should just face the fact....that film is unique and we should just embrace video's organic like difference....because it will never really be the same.
 
Light fall off is where it's at. As long as there is a smooth transition from light to dark then DR can be easily faked. There are film stocks that don't necessarily have good DR like these cameras but they still look like film. DR is not everything and neither is sharpness (look at the Arri Alexa). Not saying a camera like the Alexa is not sharp.....but it's not the sharpest. It's soft yest detailed...sort of like.....film. I used to like the HVX200's images because they were...um...soft. I realized it's really a combination of things that make video look like film. But DR is not the magic bullet. I guarantee there will be more high DR cameras in the next few years...and then folks will claim something new is the magic bullet. DR today is like Shallow DOF yesterday. I think we should just face the fact....that film is unique and we should just embrace video's organic like difference....because it will never really be the same.

Im not saying DR alone gives you the film look but ask any DP that started on film and they will say that what has been lacking in digital cinema cameras compared to film is DR. If DR can be faked and 4K/6K/8K resolution was the holy grail, people would stop shooting Alexa and choose any other cheap 4K camera. What DP's love about the Alexa is its DR and colour handling.
 
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