Simon Höfer
Veteran
So why exactly did they implement the 24p cinema mode? Makes no sense.
GH2 official discussion thread
- Thread starter Vitaliy Kiselev
- Start date
So why exactly did they implement the 24p cinema mode? Makes no sense.
Rolf Silber
Veteran
Yep, AKED
but Panasonic should think about the possibilities if they would open a back door for programmers in a way that would allow to create indivual "apps" that could configure the camera to the modes we want and need them...... okay, I am a dreamer..... ;-)
but Panasonic should think about the possibilities if they would open a back door for programmers in a way that would allow to create indivual "apps" that could configure the camera to the modes we want and need them...... okay, I am a dreamer..... ;-)
Definitively to fulfill the wishes of the "indie film makers".
Maybe they just "forgot" 15p" or thought it is not important?
We can only speculate her anyway.
Well, as far as I understood the Panasonic Product Manager on the Photokina, they are looking for maximum compatibility to one of their main markets: TV screens.
As soon as individual "apps" can be applied in a camera, I think the danger is very big to loose this compatibility.
But dreaming is nice...
Olly Knights
Member
It's "25p"
Panny have ignored it for sure, none of the arguments about it not being used make any sense when Panny have implemented 24p, all those same arguments can be directed at 24p too, Panny have simply IGNORED the 25p "cinema mode" and caused a huge hedache for PAL GH1 enthusiasts looking to "upgrade" to GH2.
If it were the other way round and NTSC users had no full quality 24p imagine the waterfall of bitching that would take place!
More moaning and bitching to come i'm afraid, it's one way to get what you want
Regards
720p maxes out at about 18Mbps and does not have B frames. Same for 1080 interlaced modes (except they do have B frames). The only mode that is 24Mbps is the 1080/24p cinema mode, and it does have B frames. Panasonic may make some changes by the time they release the GH2, so we'll have to revisit all this then.
Chris
Chris
Matthew P
Well-known member
This is a bit off topic, but when it was put forward to have HD interlaced, why didn't they make it easier on the codecs? For example, 1920x540 @ 60fps with a pixel aspect ratio of .5 would've been much more efficiently encoded, yet it would take no more bandwidth.
Actually... never mind, I suppose they chose what is used now because they wouldn't have been able to have full res HD (25pf for example) in a broadcast stream or whatever. Shame.
Actually... never mind, I suppose they chose what is used now because they wouldn't have been able to have full res HD (25pf for example) in a broadcast stream or whatever. Shame.
I agree.
I simply don't buy the argument about satisfying the wider demand, or striving not to confuse domestic customers.
As a professional musician I use a ton of hardware and software that's sold with features way beyond my needs. I simply ignore those features.
Most music hardware and software is built for amateur and professional use alike. There's no 'amateur' version of a Korg synthesizer, only a cheaper one and a more expensive one. I guess a similar analogy would be the G2 vs GH2. Offer a simpler interface and feature set in the cheaper model if you must.
Also, if Panasonic can build in specific features for PAL countries like the 30 minute record limit, they can build in positive features for PAL users that match those offered to NTSC users.
Camera Expert
Well-known member
Where does it say that the 720 50p/60p mode doesn't have B frames?
Good point - albeit that the 30 minute limit is required by EU legislation to differentiate between 'cameras' & 'camcorders' for tax purposes.
I've no doubt that Panasonic have also found time to include their 3rd party battery prohibition, as well.
The 25p omission is even odder when one considers that PAL is hardly a minority standard - 79 countries use it, including entire continents & sub continents like Australia & India - while 45 countries use NTSC. It's unfortunate that one of the 45 is the USA, which seems to set the agenda.
Rolf Silber
Veteran
But.... then they "forget" a market of 79 countries - as "framerate" wrote in the above post - that run on PAL 25p? As I wrote: Someone at Panasonic must have had a bottle of sake too much.
And I do not care about the distribution-side of video. Most modern TV-sets can cope with whatever comes their way. But on the acquiring side of video, the side of shooting, editing, fx'ing it they have kicked us PAListanis in the back big time. Editing either 24p or in 50i? Yikes! :-(
And truly: If they did this by mistake (and change it) I will keep my big mouth shut immediately and call my dealer to order a GH2 body. If they don't do it, I have to re-consider my engagement into MFT altogether and sell my stuff and only keep the really nice set of lenses I acquired over the last year that are not MFT and wait for a real good product to come along. A "real good product" to me is something that offers me the ability to stay over the years inside the "family" (MFT in this case) and tries to have some up and down compatibility.
I even thought about getting an AF-AG 101 (if my budget and my wife allows) and having the GH2 body as a "sidekick" for complicated situation and for shooting more discreetly. But if a company wants to chain me to their concept what a customer should be or not be, do or not do, I say "sayonara"..... ;-)
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Spectra
Active member
China, India, Australia most of Asia and Europe use PAL....in population terms PAL is by far the bigger market and has technically been a superior system in the past (better colour, resolution and sane frame rates)....Canon so far seem to be the only company fully supporting PAL users.
Precisely. Distribution and acquisition are two entirely different concerns and should be treated as such....otherwise you have the technical difficulties that arise (such as flickering of 50 Hz light sources etc) that we have previously been talking about.
I am going to write a future article in Digital Rev regarding this very issue....at present we PAListanis have very few choices for progressive acquisition in HDSLR cameras and if Panasonic have indeed dropped 25P support and offer no 50P progressive mode it is a very curious decision indeed.
tipota - Hope you dont mind if I borrow your very apt and descriptive title for my article as I will possibly call it "Refugees of PAListan".
Rolf Silber
Veteran
Hi Spectra,
I hereby give you the copyright for using PAListan..... ;-)
What I really do not understand: Why don't Panasonic understands that basically what they sell us a computer with a sensor and a lens mount. And that the success of computers rely heavily on their ability of giving costumers greater flexibility and run certain programs on this computers that are tailored to the very needs of those customers.
If they would adopt such an "open-platform-in-a-way" approach, they would very probably kill the competing companies in no time and by that introducing MFT as a new consumer, pro-sumer and professional standard that would allow us to chose the right product for the right occasion. Actually they behave like German camera-manufacturers when the Asai Pentax Spotmatic F and the first Nikons arrived on the European shores and they would arrogantly overlook what that meant to them: Their death in a rather short time.
What they also not get is, that pro-users give the camera a certain aura that reflects even on the amateurs: Wow, I own a camera that can be a third- or crash-cam in a bigger production. Oh, my camera was on the set with "The Return from PAListan"..... ;-)
Drop us a hint, when your article is ready.....
I hereby give you the copyright for using PAListan..... ;-)
What I really do not understand: Why don't Panasonic understands that basically what they sell us a computer with a sensor and a lens mount. And that the success of computers rely heavily on their ability of giving costumers greater flexibility and run certain programs on this computers that are tailored to the very needs of those customers.
If they would adopt such an "open-platform-in-a-way" approach, they would very probably kill the competing companies in no time and by that introducing MFT as a new consumer, pro-sumer and professional standard that would allow us to chose the right product for the right occasion. Actually they behave like German camera-manufacturers when the Asai Pentax Spotmatic F and the first Nikons arrived on the European shores and they would arrogantly overlook what that meant to them: Their death in a rather short time.
What they also not get is, that pro-users give the camera a certain aura that reflects even on the amateurs: Wow, I own a camera that can be a third- or crash-cam in a bigger production. Oh, my camera was on the set with "The Return from PAListan"..... ;-)
Drop us a hint, when your article is ready.....
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The silly thing is that the GH1 has 25p and the GH2 doesn't. This means that they have actually dropped a facility they currently offer. I could understand it if the GH1 didn't do 25p either, but this isn't the case. As for the PAL / NTSC ratio I believe it's about 2/5 NTSC and 3/5 PAL around the globe.
Why the hell they didn't just do a 550D and offer 24, 25 + 30p as standard I'll never know.
Why the hell they didn't just do a 550D and offer 24, 25 + 30p as standard I'll never know.
Spectra
Active member
Haha Cheers!
I have just completed an article on this very subject... ie a hypothetical camera from Nikon that is a fully programmable video / still hybrid that shoots RAW video.
The second part should be on-line soon and is the spec sheet for the design.
You and others here make many valid arguments as to why we need PAL progressive frame rates and the same should also be offered to NTSC shooters..... as Energy80s stated......
"24, 25 + 30p as standard"
Anything less is simply not acceptable.
Rolf Silber
Veteran
Yes Spectra,
a sensor in a box with an MFT mount and the possibility of programming and hereby switching it to certain settings - that's what I dream of. The Vitaliy-Cam.
We shot with an Arri D-20 two years ago and my DoP and I loved the fact that - apart from the on/off switch - it had next to no other funky settings, menus or little knobs to turn or switch. That was almost too radical, but I loved it.
a sensor in a box with an MFT mount and the possibility of programming and hereby switching it to certain settings - that's what I dream of. The Vitaliy-Cam.
We shot with an Arri D-20 two years ago and my DoP and I loved the fact that - apart from the on/off switch - it had next to no other funky settings, menus or little knobs to turn or switch. That was almost too radical, but I loved it.
What countries transmit 1080p @ 25 FPS? None that I know of. They transmit 1080i @ 50 Fields per second. 1080p @ 25 FPS is used for Blu-ray only. If you are not burning Blu-rays discs then you don't need 1080p @ 25 FPS. 1080p @ 24 FPS will work just as well.
PAL SD is definitely superior to NTSC SD. Technically NTSC HD is better than PAL HD for low light shooting since it can theoretically allow slightly longer shutter durations. The difference in 24 FPS and 25 FPS is negligible for motion.
Barry_Green
Moderator
You do realize that Panasonic is a Japanese company, yes? And Japan is one of the NTSC countries.