GH2 official discussion thread

OK, now let me ask a question now:

I am producing martial arts instructional DVDs and also download programs for the internet.
I use the GH1 and since may the GH13 in 720/50p mode for smooth motion. this is why the 1080/50i in the GH1 was not an option because it really is 1080/25p. And that is not smooth.
DoF has no importance in these productiorons as well as cinematic look is not important.

If I get a GH2, and want to mix it with the GH13 material, what shall I use in the GH2?
Also 720/50p or 1080/50i? Both Cameras film the same action which will be shown from 2 sides.

Thanks
 
My thanks added, Aked.

I take it the 60i fps is 59.94?

I don't quite understand the video "follow focus." Is it that there is none on the GH2, while the GH1 had it? That doesn't seem quite right for "run & gun" doc shooting. How would you use the touch screen focus while trying to shoot run-&-gun style. (Or, similarly, home movies?)

RBG

Jasketti said:
But please no interlaced anymore - it is ancient remnant and a horrible
compromise.
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Old soldiers never die...
Take that 1920's created-for-adequate-sound frame rate standard, 24 f/s.
 
If I get a GH2, and want to mix it with the GH13 material, what shall I use in the GH2?
Also 720/50p or 1080/50i? Both Cameras film the same action which will be shown from 2 sides.
Click to expand...
You usually want to match 2 cameras as best as possible, to avoid too much cc afterwards. I would say that you would probably want to shoot both in 720 50p in this case. It's always best to have a trial run first though.
 
RBG said:
My thanks added, Aked.
Old soldiers never die...
Take that 1920's created-for-adequate-sound frame rate standard, 24 f/s.
Click to expand...
Some do die, some don't but should.

24 fps has certain aesthetically pleasing aspects to it. Interlacing does not. It's fine if it stays as a delivery format for backwards compatibility, it is not fine as an acquisition format.
 
AKED said:
OK, now let me ask a question now:

I am producing martial arts instructional DVDs and also download programs for the internet.
I use the GH1 and since may the GH13 in 720/50p mode for smooth motion. this is why the 1080/50i in the GH1 was not an option because it really is 1080/25p. And that is not smooth.
DoF has no importance in these productiorons as well as cinematic look is not important.

If I get a GH2, and want to mix it with the GH13 material, what shall I use in the GH2?
Also 720/50p or 1080/50i? Both Cameras film the same action which will be shown from 2 sides.

Thanks
Click to expand...

That kind of a tough question.

Usually, situations like these demand settling on the lowest common denominator. In your case, the lowest common denominator would probably NOT be resolution-based -- as that is an easier variable to control and convert. In your case, I would assume that the interlace/progressive profile would be the driver your workflow decision.

First of all, you need to consider the capabilities of your NLE. If you're using something like an Avid Media Composer, you can use the built-in motion adapters to convert any resolution/framerate -- to any other resolution/framerate in realtime (with no rendering).

For example, in Media Composer, you would import your GH13 720p/50 media into one "project" -- and your GH2 1080i/50 media into another "project". Then you would open your 720 media -- while you were in your 1080 project -- and it would automatically be converted to the 1080i/50 profile.

That would give your the 50 i/p time domain that is required for smooth action.

At that point, you would just edit normally and output your final sequence for DVD and Web compression. However, this type of mixed media will require a complete workflow test (beginning to end) to make sure your deliverables (DVD & Web) are of acceptable quality.

Hope that helps.

Btw: This advice is based on my assumption that the GH2 does NOT do 720p/50 -- NOR 1080p/50
 
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I believe this is precisely what the GH2 does in its 1080i mode. At least, they gave us a 1080p @ 24 FPS mode which will work for most of my needs. For everything else the 720 @ 60 FPS mode will work. I will never even use the 1080i mode unless they can hack it to 1080p @ 60 FPS.

blafarm said:
I'm no expert on Panasonic cameras -- but if that sensor is actually dumping 50p to the processor -- and the camera is only able to record 50i -- I would doubt you'd be able to deinterlace that 50i back to 25p.

It would be one thing if the sensor was dumping 25p -- and the processor was interlacing those frames to 50i -- because you'd know that each pair of fields were in the same time domain.

But if the sensor is dumping 50p -- and the processor is stripping a field from each of those 50p frames in order to make 50i -- then it is entirely possible that each of the 50i fields is temporally unrelated to the fields on either side of it.

And, if that is what's happening, you would not be able to re-unify two fields back to 25p -- because no two fields would have been captured at the same time -- and be progressively coherent.

This is purely an assumption on my part. And, frankly, I can't imagine engineering a camera this way -- so it is entirely possible (if not probable) that I am incorrect.
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There is one good reason why they don't offer these choices. The more choices you offer someone the more chances you have that they will call customer support asking which option they should choose.

The fact still remains that many people still call customer support as their first action when they have an issue or question. They don't read the manual, they don't ask a friend, they don't try to learn about it for themselves. They pick up the phone and call customer care and ask things like "What is the difference between 1080p60 and 1080i60".

Panasonic knows that if they just produce a camera that only does 1080i 60 or 1080p 24 out of the box then not as many people will call support which costs them alot of money.

They know that users who really want 1080p @ 60 FPS will find a way to make the camera do it(ie: Hack). They purposely have advertised that the sensor can do 1080p @ 60 FPS almost inviting us to try to hack the camera.

In the end everyone will win. Novice users get their 1080i which is compatible with everything and still has reasonable quality when viewed directly connected to most TVs. And the more advanced users will get their 1080p @ 60 FPS eventually. Sure they will not have their warranty anymore but it is likely that those are the people who wouldn't need the warranty anyway.

From a "How do we please everyone perspective" I think Panasonic hit a home run.

NPrincen said:
Panasonic,

So, we beg you to make available as menu choices in both NTSC and PAL cameras, the following choices:

720p24
720p25
720p30
720p50
720p60
1080p24
1080p25
1080p30
1080i50
1080i60
1080p50
1080p60

Thank You,
Current and Hopefully Future Customer
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AKED said:
this is why the 1080/50i in the GH1 was not an option because it really is 1080/25p. And that is not smooth.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Not really. 1080i50 is NOT 1080p25. It has better temporal resolution, as each half-frame is 1/50th of the second. It's like taking a 1080p50 source and tossing every second line from each frame, while alternating odd and even lines for each frame.

Thus it's really like ordinary 50Hz PAL, except much higher resolution.
 
kainekainekaine said:
Any idea if it was the 17mbs or 13mbs mode? Is this footage straight out of the camera untouched? Cheers.
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It looks to be original footage, since you typically don't transcode to .mts. Bitrate avg is 16mbs, so would be 17mbps mode.

Unfortunately, it looks like the codec will probably be the same for non 24p native modes... no B frames in this file. This means that even if this camera did do 25p/30, the quality wouldn't compare to 24p due to the lower bitrate AND lack of B frames.

I think I'd rather have 720p60/50 available in the 24mbs encoding mode than 1080p30/25 (assuming we can't have 1080p60). On the other hand, it should be dead simple to implement 30/25p over 60/50i.
 
mcsmooth said:
I think I'd rather have 720p60/50 available in the 24mbs encoding mode than 1080p30/25 (assuming we can't have 1080p60). On the other hand, it should be dead simple to implement 30/25p over 60/50i.
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1080p @ 60 FPS should be "dead simple" to implement as well since that is the sensor reads it. We know AVC-HD can support it. They already do it with their camcorders.
 
Grunf said:
Not really. 1080i50 is NOT 1080p25. It has better temporal resolution, as each half-frame is 1/50th of the second. It's like taking a 1080p50 source and tossing every second line from each frame, while alternating odd and even lines for each frame.

Thus it's really like ordinary 50Hz PAL, except much higher resolution.
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I could be mistaken, but I think that is what he was saying..
 
Vitaliy Kiselev said:
Even many of their managers have no idea about many technical sides :-)
And you are asking small representatives. They are good at answering common questions.
And they are usually 90-95% fo all questions (and about 100% with any press).
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That is true. That has been my experience every time I go to the NAB convention.

You can see a lot of beautiful "expo models/actresses" talking about the product features. They have a strong stage presence and have excellent communication skills. They learn the script very well and show excitement when talking about the product. At the end of the presentation, they tell the audience to feel free to ask any question to the sale reps. Many of the sales people also learn a script so they send you to an engineer every time you throw a curb. Most of the time the engineers are the ones who worked developing the products, so they are very knowledgeable. The only problem is that sometimes their English is not very good. One time a was talking to a Sony engineer... Needless to say, it was funny to hear a highly technical conversation between a Spanish and a Japanese. It was in English, but we both had a strong accent.:D
 
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Befuddled.....

Befuddled.....

Grunf said:
Not really. 1080i50 is NOT 1080p25. It has better temporal resolution, as each half-frame is 1/50th of the second. It's like taking a 1080p50 source and tossing every second line from each frame, while alternating odd and even lines for each frame.

Thus it's really like ordinary 50Hz PAL, except much higher resolution.
Click to expand...

I am distinctively befuddled, why they have no 1080 25p but only 24 p now. If this mode gives me more "cinematic pictures" I beg to aks, why I can't have 25 p "cinmatic pictures" any more all of a sudden.

I shoot 1080 25 p with my GH13 - so what should I do in the future when I want to mix material? What happens if I shoot in 24 p? Why did they do that? Strange. Any explanation is welcome.
 
tipota said:
I am distinctively befuddled, why they have no 1080 25p but only 24 p now. If this mode gives me more "cinematic pictures" I beg to aks, why I can't have 25 p "cinmatic pictures" any more all of a sudden.

I shoot 1080 25 p with my GH13 - so what should I do in the future when I want to mix material? What happens if I shoot in 24 p? Why did they do that? Strange. Any explanation is welcome.
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I believe the 25p in 50i wrapper is solved by shooting at exposures less than 50 Hz as previously discussed.

Likewise, we should be able to get 30p in a 60i wrapper by shooting less than 60 Hz. Two consecutive fields will be acquired from the same temporal exposure.
 
I am very excited about the 1:1 crop video mode. As a suggestion for a future full-frame camera, let the 1:1 pixel map be 1080/2k/4k sized image circle of the m43 and let bigger full-frame lenses cover the full extent of the larger sensor. This would drastically improve high ISO performance and eliminate aliasing and moire. I really wonder how the downsampling is being performed in the GH2. Is the processor using pixel binning in the non crop video mode?
 
Anyone know if the 1:1 mode would be better suited than the none 1:1 mode for chroma keying due to less problems like aliasing/moire etc?
 
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