GH2 Auto ISO with Shutter Priority is faulty, thinking of Returning it ;)

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fredphoesh

Member
Hello all,

I got my GH2 a few days ago, and was very disappointed to find the Auto ISO does not work properly.

If you are in low light and set your camera to Shutter Priority to say 1/60th sec, and put the ISO to auto, it will not ramp up the ISO beyond approx 800 or so... leading to VERY under exposed images.

In the Menu, there is an ISO LIMIT setting. If I set it to OFF (which SHOULD mean it will ramp up the ISO to as much as is needed to expose correctly) it will only ramp up to about 800 or so. If you set the ISO LIMIT to ON and set the limit to 3200, it will ramp up the ISO to 3200... but that is not enough some times, and setting the LIMIT OFF should mean it will ramp as high as it needs go...

This may be a bug, but it is very disappointing to me as i shoot in low light a lot.

Any comments very welcome, thanks guys,
Mark
 
if you are trying to push this camera past 3200, then you're asking it to see in the dark. at that point most folks just turn on a light or two.
you can use a faster lens and try 1/30th whenever you find yourself in these extreme low light situations. typically and traditionally, this is exactly when you need to light your set.
 
Unless you're going for some kind of stylized noisy image, I would avoid shooting with ISO that high anyway. If you don't mind me asking - why is auto ISO important to you? I'm just curious, as I was under the impression that it was best to shoot with the lowest ISO possible. Also - What's the aperture on the lens you're using?
 
Hello guys, thanks for the replies

averan said:
if you are trying to push this camera past 3200, then you're asking it to see in the dark. at that point most folks just turn on a light or two.
you can use a faster lens and try 1/30th whenever you find yourself in these extreme low light situations. typically and traditionally, this is exactly when you need to light your set.
Click to expand...
I disagree with your assertion, but that is besides the point, I was not looking for advice about photography, or wanting to prove a point, but wanting to find out if there was a way to make the auto ISO work properly. Auto ISO is less flexible than setting a limit of 3200... which means setting the Auto ISO to AUTO is pointless, it amounts to setting it to 800 ISO.

LineBreak said:
Unless you're going for some kind of stylized noisy image, I would avoid shooting with ISO that high anyway. If you don't mind me asking - why is auto ISO important to you? I'm just curious, as I was under the impression that it was best to shoot with the lowest ISO possible. Also - What's the aperture on the lens you're using?
Click to expand...
The AUTO ISO would shoot at the lowest possible ISO setting to give the cleanest image, but it should not limit the ISO at all. If you are shooting in a very low light situation and have your shutter set to 1/60th, (for argument's sake) then the camera should set the aperture accordingly, and when there is not enough f-stop to give more light, it should up the ISO rating, and do that until it reaches maximum ISO rating.

It seems the GH2 does not do this, which IMO is a firmware bug.

If anybody knows how to make the AUTO ISO work properly, please let me know,
thanks
Mark.
 
your approach is all wrong, you will not succeed if you continue in this direction. good luck.
 
fredphoesh said:
Hello guys, thanks for the replies


which means setting the Auto ISO to AUTO is pointless, it amounts to setting it to 800 ISO.
Click to expand...

No, it is not 'pointless', as it seems to 'work' automagically upto 800... in other words if you walk out into broad daylight, shoot, the 'auto' selection will go for 100 or whatever... walk into a den of iniquity, and shoot, you get up to 800, given what you have stated. Further, you seem to have found a solution by turning max 'on' and setting it higher than 800... I would guess someone in Panasonic decided that 800 was a 'reasonable' max for most applications to avoid 'unreasonable' noise...

As a note, ISO 3200 is the highest available in 'movie mode', so higher is not an option anyway.

I am of course presuming you are shooting movies...

I will also note, that I never use 'auto' anything other than 'auto focus'... because I'm getting old in my old age... and just getting focused is... well problematic...

And just as a postscript, I don't think ISO selection, automatic or otherwise, is part of 'work flow'... others may disagree, but that sounds more like basic exposure configuration/setup, rather than what to me comes under 'work flow'... configurations like 24p, 720/1080 do impact workflow... perhaps ISO would as in 'what amount of noise reduction may I expect to need given ISO X'...

But whether an option works or not... that's a different category to me...
 
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averan said:
your approach is all wrong, you will not succeed if you continue in this direction. good luck.
Click to expand...

Mate, sorry to say, you are a bit of an idiot. What is a "wrong" approach? How arrogant of you to assume you know more than I do about photography. Thanks for wishing me luck, it is most generous of you.
Mark.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
No, it is not 'pointless', as it seems to 'work' automagically upto 800....
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BOY, a lot of slow people on this thread so far...
if you read what I said in the first place, you would see that by SETTING A LIMIT to the AUTO ISO you get it working to 3200, so there is NO POINT of setting it to AUTO when you can set the ISO limit to 800 or 3200, but not higher... so if you set it to limit at 3200, it will be AUTO UP TO 32OO making the AUTO ISO mode irrelevant, pointless, stupid, as it is the same as setting the limit to 800. do you understand?
 
I don't have the camera, but I bet the Auto ISO maxes out at 800 in consideration of video AND stills at what they think is good for the average consumer. And we know only the average consumer would use Auto ISO. The conundrum you found is Panasonic's little engineering joke. I think they are smiling with you.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
I am of course presuming you are shooting movies...
Click to expand...

ps, i am shooting stills in this case.

But ISO ramping amounts to the same thing as pushing GAIN in video. The ISO can go up to 12000 or so, so why wouldnt the AUTO ISO go beyond the 3200 you can already set as a maximum for Auto ISO.

Im pretty sure it's a bug, it makes no sense the way it is.

Mark.
 
fredphoesh said:
ps, i am shooting stills in this case.

But ISO ramping amounts to the same thing as pushing GAIN in video. The ISO can go up to 12000 or so, so why wouldnt the AUTO ISO go beyond the 3200 you can already set as a maximum for Auto ISO.

Im pretty sure it's a bug, it makes no sense the way it is.

Mark.
Click to expand...

This is just my opinion, but if it did automatically go up beyond 3200, I'd think many camera hobbyists would get in line at Best Buy for a refund.
 
goodgoings said:
I don't have the camera, but I bet the Auto ISO maxes out at 800 in consideration of video AND stills at what they think is good for the average consumer. And we know only the average consumer would use Auto ISO. The conundrum you found is Panasonic's little engineering joke. I think they are smiling with you.
Click to expand...

Hi guys,
I am wrong about the ISO it sets when it is on Auto ISO, it only goes up to 400, which is bizarre:

1/ you set your camera ISO rating to AUTO
2/ set the ISO LIMIT to OFF
3/ point to a dark corner of the room, hold shutter half down, and see the preview shows isoAuto change to iso400

then

1/ set the camera ISO rating to AUTO
2/ set ISO limit to 3200
3/ point to the same dark corner and, press shutter half down and see the ISO goes up to 3200

Surely if the limit is OFF, there would be NO limit
Why would limit OFF = limit On400 ISO?

I will call Panasonic come tuesday.
tx for the responses so far.

Mark.
 
goodgoings said:
This is just my opinion, but if it did automatically go up beyond 3200, I'd think many camera hobbyists would get in line at Best Buy for a refund.
Click to expand...

Why? It seems the enthusiasts you know must be pretty thick... in your opinion they would prefer to take a pitch black photo than to take a very grainy one that is visible?

hmmm, sounds improbable that anyone would complain about having MORE flexibility.
 
fredphoesh said:
BOY, a lot of slow people on this thread so far...
if you read what I said in the first place, you would see that by SETTING A LIMIT to the AUTO ISO you get it working to 3200, so there is NO POINT of setting it to AUTO when you can set the ISO limit to 800 or 3200, but not higher... so if you set it to limit at 3200, it will be AUTO UP TO 32OO making the AUTO ISO mode irrelevant, pointless, stupid, as it is the same as setting the limit to 800. do you understand?
Click to expand...

Since I'm not an engineer at Panasonic, I have no idea what was in 'their' mind when this element was designed. I can only conjecture what could have been in their mind.

On that basis it is my conjecture that the 'auto' feature was set to go up to maximum of 800 if there was no 'override' in the form of an additional limit. I would believe this maxium of 800 was chosen because of considerations for 'noise', and not having a bunch of idiots who seem to think 'auto' means 'read my mind', and then be very disappointed when the 'auto ISO' feature chose a high value, which had significant noise, thus producing a crappy image on account of noise. The fact that you can 'override' this 'optimum' maximum that the engineers thought was best allows some set of users to 'choose their own poison'.

The fact that it stops at ISO 3200 rather than going to the maximum the camera may allow, probably is another engineering choice of how the 'auto ISO' function works, perhaps by 'pre-sensing' the ambient level at certain ISO values and choosing a 'best one'. That means there is some sort of processing, which takes time, and so, rather than having the idiot 'auto ISO' user have to wait a few seconds with the shutter pressed, they opted to just only go so far.

If you want higher ISOs than that, well you need to learn how to change ISO quickly.

As I said, I don't use 'auto ISO'. I do use 'auto Focus' with the proviso that I will switch to manual frequently rather than have the camera 'hunt' everytime I press down the shutter, when the distances are approximately the same from one shot to another. Further I use the camera mostly for video, so, in that case, ISO 3200 would be the max anyway...

Further it was not clear from your post that you were using stills... that 'note that' took a while to come out...

As a parting note... I drive a manual shift... so, I don't even let my car go 'automatic' and decide what gear it wants to be in... that's how far I'll go to not use 'auto'...

Update:

From the manual for the GH-2

The 'note' for Auto ISO usage:

¢ When the [ISO LIMIT SET] of [REC] Mode menu (P124) is set to anything except [OFF], it is set automatically within the value set in [ISO LIMIT SET]. It is set as following when the [ISO LIMIT SET] is set to [OFF]. [When the 3D interchangeable lens (optional) is attached, it may become higher than the following settings.]
• When [AUTO] is selected, ISO sensitivity is adjusted automatically depending on brightness within a maximum setting of [ISO400].
• When setting to [ ], ISO sensitivity will adjust automatically depending on brightness within the maximum setting of [ISO800]. ([ISO400] when the flash is used)
---------

In other words, it sounds like the camera is working according to how the manual describes its operation... my god, take it back, it must be defective...
 
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goodgoings said:
This is just my opinion, but if it did automatically go up beyond 3200, I'd think many camera hobbyists would get in line at Best Buy for a refund.
Click to expand...

When the Wife was active in the wedding biz, she would have wording in the contract to the effect that in 'low light conditions', and 'using high ISO film', there may be 'film grain visible'.

This was to preempt any complaint about the 'grainy images' that such conditions produce...
 
This is not a firmware bug at all...it's just the way the engineers made it. Auto settings are typically designed to get the best results for shooters who don't want to deal with manual control...so they decided the best results would not be obtained past 3200, and 800 for most uses. Quite honestly, anything past 3200 on most cameras (even the great D7000) will not yield ultra fantastic results. Those settings are meant for use "in a pinch" situation. If you shoot low light a lot - get a nice fast lens and adjust your ISO manually....it's a split second operation.
Just as a note...the limit on the G1 Auto ISo was 1600
So it's not that outlandish that the auto ISO limit on the GH2 is 3200.
 
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fredphoesh said:
Why? It seems the enthusiasts you know must be pretty thick... in your opinion they would prefer to take a pitch black photo than to take a very grainy one that is visible?

hmmm, sounds improbable that anyone would complain about having MORE flexibility.
Click to expand...

Yes, enthusiasts are pretty thick. They can't wrap their heads around why engineers did what they did. They like to bicker on internet forums and they believe they should have been consulted before final production.
 
pulpfiction007 said:
This is not a firmware bug at all...it's just the way the engineers made it.
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Ok, but the Auto ISO mode IS redundant. If you set your ISO LIMIT to 400, it will act exactly as the Auto ISO!

Boosting the ISO only happens when you do not have enough stop or shutter speed to expose correctly. I am interested in street photography, and lighting conditions can vary enormously even at the same time of day, particularly if going inside and out, following your nose... I was on the train the day I discovered this issue/problem, and wanted to shoot the feet of a couple sitting nearby. I would want a camera that does not boost iso when it does not have to, and boosts it when it needs to, and right up to an ISO limit that is not restricted at 3200.
My feet shot looked great in the viewfinder, and after taking the pic, it was almost completely black. The auto settings are extremely useful for people shooting unsolicited photos of people, and are not just the comfort blanket for enthusiasts or ignoramuses as some of the elite snobs on this thread would make out.

It's been an interesting discussion, and I apologise for calling names and being annoyed. I did feel that I faced defensiveness about the product instead of people really trying to understand/help.

Thanks to those of you who have been helpful.
I will let you know what Panasonic say...
tx
Mark.
 
The reason it is like this is to keep noobs from sending the camera back to panasonic saying 'wtf, my camera looks worse then my phone its suxxors', after they take a 4000iso+ image.

As for people saying you shouldnt be shooting past 3200 or your photos will be shite.. they are absolutely right and if your pretending that such ultra noisy photos with horrible clarity are somehow useful in photography as an auto setting.. i guess it might have some remote use... somewhere.. to somebody.. you apparently... but even with perfect framing etc they are still going to suck. In the real world there is no need or utility for setting auto iso that high because it is there as a practical tool for a)photographers who want to work within a USEABLE limit but not have to worry about manually changing iso or b) amateurs who dont want to worry about iso. In either of these scenarios this precludes working at the the gross iso range your contemplating. Photographers won't use it and amateurs would just be disappointed by it.

If you are some avante garde off the beaten path photographer who has an ambition of being the next big hit by your awesome prowess with ultra noisy images then you probably have the sophistication to set the iso yourself. Being that your shooting in p rather then m with a kitlens in the dark, i'd guess your probably more of a beginner which is not bad but being arrogant enough to chastise the actual sound advice from more knowledgeable people is a big fail.

So no you cannot use auto iso in that way because for 99.9% of the photographic population it would have no purpose, its not an error, its by design, so my advice to you is absolutely return your gh2 as defective and go buy yourself an infrared camera. The images you take will be of comparable quality and you wont have to worry about silly defective gh2s and their sucky auto iso... leave that up to the photographers who actually understand their camera is not a god bazooka and sometimes you may need to go beyond your kit lens or god forbid use a flash or hey turn on the light!

And please for god sake leave panasonic alone. Aside from the abject stupidity in putting the autofocus light on the wrong side of the camera and making the left dial to small and having to slow of a flash sync and not supporting wireless flash they produced a GEM of a camera that at iso 3200 shoots equal to most other cams at iso 6000 and produces exceptionally good quality images for such low light operation. The auto-iso setting is fine as is.

Just because you can point and shoot a camera does not mean that it is unfair for a person to question your technique. Photography is art and science like anything else and its like picking up a scalpel and stabbing it in your leg because you have a charlie horse and then when a surgeon reccomends not doing that you asking him who he is to question your medical knowledge... hes someone who knows that what your doing is a bad technique and he is well within his rights to do so...
 
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