GH2 + Atomos Ninja?

Read this from colorbyjorg.wordpress:
Dmitry Kitsov says: April 14, 2011 at 19:18
I was talking to one of the Atmos guys at NAB. At first he told me that the Ninja is fully compatible with GH2 (as a matter of fact one of the Ninja recorders was mounted on top of the european model GH2). When I started pressing him on a cadence issue he seemed to backtrack his GH2 compatibility statements. Also he flat out stated there will be no peaking functionality.


I'm always a little bit weary of first generation products. Let Atomos take the first plunge, assess their findings and problems, then wait for someone to make something better - or cheaper. If Apple and is anything to go by, then we should see something very quickly!
 
ed_lee83 said:
Read this from colorbyjorg.wordpress:
Dmitry Kitsov says: April 14, 2011 at 19:18
I was talking to one of the Atmos guys at NAB. At first he told me that the Ninja is fully compatible with GH2 (as a matter of fact one of the Ninja recorders was mounted on top of the european model GH2). When I started pressing him on a cadence issue he seemed to backtrack his GH2 compatibility statements. Also he flat out stated there will be no peaking functionality.


I'm always a little bit weary of first generation products. Let Atomos take the first plunge, assess their findings and problems, then wait for someone to make something better - or cheaper. If Apple and is anything to go by, then we should see something very quickly!
Click to expand...


I don't think anyone from Atomos would have said that the GH2 was fully compatible with the GH2. What they might have said is that if the GH2 were to give a proper HDMI output, the Ninja would be fully compatible with it. This is the case with any DSLR camera. We can only record what we receive over the HDMI connection.

We had GH2s at NAB because it is the only digital still camera that gives an output without viewfinder objects in the video - and because we've seen some very good results for it.

As we all know on this forum, the situation with the GH2 is complicated. We have seen some very good results with the GH2/Ninja combination. We have GH2s and we are doing tests with them over a period of time.

Personally, I think the results are good enough for many purposes, especially when you run the footage through some of the corrective measures documented on this forum. But it's not for me to say that they're good enough for any given purpose. We can't make subjective statements like that.

Dave Shapton
Atomos
 
Uh oh, you better find who said that at your booth!
Dave, I know you have an office in Hong Kong and I live there too. Are there any Ninjas there? And any chance to test one? I've given up on contacting Jeremy
 
Hi Dave,

Fantastic having you frequent here.
I really like the look and sound of the Ninja and also Atomos as a company, (especially as an Aussie myself) and I had been planning on getting a Ninja if I bought an AF100...
But, I need an UW housing for my project and unfortunatly $$ wise the AF100 with a custom, or a currently non existent housing looks to be off the cards for me... So I will likely have to go for a GH2, 7D or 5DMII...

I have read this thread, and Barry has clearly put forward and supported his findings that the only value to having a Ninja attached to the GH2 would be if going the complex Avisynth workflow that I could produce an image with fewer compression artifacts??

How much benefit would this genuinely be to an indi project looking for potential theatrical release down the track?

Otherwise... here's hoping on Vitaliy...
Maybe you guys should throw him a few fifties or a GH2 or two? :D

Best
LW
 
ed_lee83 said:
Uh oh, you better find who said that at your booth!
Dave, I know you have an office in Hong Kong and I live there too. Are there any Ninjas there? And any chance to test one? I've given up on contacting Jeremy
Click to expand...

Well I'm sorry if anyone gave that impression. As you know, the situation is actually quite complex.

The office in Hong Kong is just an administrative one. I'm putting you in touch with someone who can help you get hold of a Ninja.
 
I have read this thread, and Barry has clearly put forward and supported his findings that the only value to having a Ninja attached to the GH2 would be if going the complex Avisynth workflow that I could produce an image with fewer compression artifacts??
Click to expand...

Running footage through a reverse-telecine process or something similar is a perfectly valid thing to do - but you have to be prepared to do it. If you're not, then you have to make do with what comes out of the GH2.

By the way, if you want to know what the output from the GH2 looks like, then all you have to do is connect the HDMI output to a TV or monitor. That's what it would look like recorded on a Ninja, which does not reduce the quality of the image if you use ProRes, as it is a visually lossless codec at the higher rates. Be aware, though, that most TVs don't go right to the edge of the image.

If you are prepared to take the AVISynth route, then the benefits are probably quite significant. I can only be subjective about this.

Dave Shapton
Atomos
 
Last edited:
David Shapton said:
By the way, if you want to know what the output from the GH2 looks like, then all you have to do is connect the HDMI output to a TV or monitor. That's what it would look like recorded on a Ninja
Click to expand...

This is a really excellent suggestion. I would add, that to make a fully accurate evaluation, you must put the camera in record mode. As has been documented and confirmed by many users, when the GH2 is in standby mode, the HDMI output is significantly degraded.
 
Is the quality of the footage coming out of the HDMI port certifiably superior than the AVCHD output? I understand that uncompressed video is, by definition, superior to any compressed codec and that I might need to use some workarounds to get the Ninja to work at certain frame rates (i.e. 1080p24). Is the HDMI output coming out of the GH2 indeed a clean uncompressed signal or is it somehow degraded?
I just want to make sure that after all the work has been put in, the video results from the Ninja (24p included) will be quantifiably superior to that on my SD card.
If that is the case, I will gladly purchase a Ninja for my kit.
Thank you for your time.
Best,
Marcelo Lessa
 
Last edited:
Marcelo Lessa said:
Is the quality of the footage coming out of the HDMI port certifiably superior than the AVCHD output? I understand that uncompressed video is, by definition, superior to any compressed codec and that I might need to use some workarounds to get the Ninja to work at certain frame rates (i.e. 1080p24). Is the HDMI output coming out of the GH2 indeed a clean uncompressed signal or is it somehow degraded?
I just want to make sure that after all the work has been put in, the video results from the Ninja (24p included) will be quantifiably superior to that on my SD card.
If that is the case, I will gladly purchase a Ninja for my kit.
Thank you for your time.
Best,
Marcelo Lessa
Click to expand...

You're right: of course, HDMI is better by definition than compressed video because it is uncompressed. There seem to be some question-marks over the GH2's HDMI quality, but - and I'm sure I'll be corrected if this is incorrect - there seems to be a mild consensus now that if you press "record" on the GH2, the HDMI output is actually very good and accurate; but of course you still have to do the complex pulldown removal that is now easilly achievable thanks to all the work that's been done with AVISynth itself, and on the installation process, which is now pretty straightforward.

Dave Shapton
Atomos
 
Wow... Ext ProRes recorder w/ XLR input. Let me guess what will happen next.

Add its own lens mount... and buttons... then it becomes new DSLR.
 
Sam,

Did you have to do AviSynth post work after capturing the footage with Ninja?
How much difference did you notice in quality of image captured with Ninja?
 
Barry_Green said:
Further verified -- using the GH2 in non-rec mode results in a massive loss of available dynamic range. You really don't ever want to try to record the GH2's output at all, unless the GH2 is simultaneously recording.

Interesting additional observation -- the luminance is represented accurately on the monitor output. The dynamic range and luminance/brightness are correct. It's just the color that's pooched.

Here are some frame grabs... each step is one stop. Just count the bars you can discern to see the comparative dynamic range.
Note: the black in the leftmost bar is from the white highlight toggling on and off. I left it in this frame so I could be certain when I was comparing them that I was looking at different pix...
View attachment 33274View attachment 33275View attachment 33276
pencil.png
Click to expand...

Okay, so i have a gh1 and really like the idea of the samurai.... and the gh1 doesn't output clean hd when in record so i thought that this would be possible, but your tests show that quality really degrades if the camera isn't set on record.
Thanks so much
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top