GH1 or 5D markII ?

[Kholi]

Pros

M2
1. UNGODLY IMAGE
2. UNGODLY LOW LIGHT
3. You'll get more freelance work from it
4. Shoots great photos, also freelance opportunity
5. Good codec for video that cuts well on most computers (my intel iMac cuts it without much hassle)
6. Now has manual controls

Huh? Those don't sound like actual, plausible facts. Is anyone really cutting the 1080/30 from an MKii directly? My Desktop is pretty beast and it still won't chop it without hiccups.

Pentax K7 (don't giggle please)
1. BUILT IN IS for the sensor, you can attach ANY LENS and not worry about jitters
2. Lenses are cheaper due to built in IS you can hit the ground running and be able to afford a full lens kit for anything you can think of.
3. Pentax has a HUGE selection of PHENOMINAL lenses...does Canon have a telephoto macro lens with IS? Or a first party wide angle lens that can focus a mere few inches from the lens? You can use film lenses and have the electronics still work on the K7.

1. Do you know if that has any adverse effect on video? Anyone tested yet? I'd like to see if it corrupts image in any way (ghosting, degradation, etc).

2 and 3. Lenses are as much as you want to pay for them. The MKii isn't limited to Canon glass nor are the K7 or GH-1 limited to their respective manufactrurers glass.

CONS

M2

3. Not a great selection of pro grade telephoto lenses with IS (just the 70-200mm, which is a big dent in the wallet)

5. If you want a backup body, Canon seems to be crippling their prosumer/consumer cameras, so you're forced to shell out for another M2 (hopefully the 60D has manual controls)

3. There's an excellent selection of glass that ranks pretty high. The selection doesn't get smaller just because someone can't or will not pay for them. It's Canon...

5. I'm not sure if that's a factworthy con?

GH1
1. Really limited lens selection - not keen on paying $1000 bucks for Panasonic's 4.0 aperture lenses. And if you want a fast telephoto lens with IS , you're screwed and have to wait IF AND WHEN panasonic released one.

3. AVCHD is a ***** to edit

1. Limited lens selection? The camera can take PL mount lenses... if for some reason you're actually only considering auto lenses then sure. Most of us, MKii or Gh-1, aren't using auto lenses. My entire Contax Zeiss collection works with the MKii and the GH-1... I'd hardly call it limited. That might need to be changed to "Panasonic doesn't make a lot of lenses but you can adapt just about any glass to the GH-1"

3. Not really. Premiere cuts natively, you can port to ProRes with FCP.

If I'm missing something let me know, but that's my take. I really want 2K7 bodies and a GH1. I'd love a mark 2 but don't think I can afford it and it's astronomical lens cost. I really get way more exciting looking at all the Pentax Glass available.

If you're only looking to match camera manufacturer and their glass then the cost of Canon glass can be called astronomical. Otherwise, the GH-1 and Mark II can and will take loads of different glass, with the GH-1 taking more than the MKii.

 

[PappasArts]

A few guys in Cali have confirmed there are 24p builds being tested but nobody has confirmed whether it's a software or hardware upgrade.[/url]

I will!

It's software, not hardware. The real question is? Whether you'll see it though!

Oh no, my amnesia has returned...

Where am I; I know nothing! ;-#


.

 

[squig]

if they don't do 24p me and a bunch of others will be getting the next nikon....which is why they will do 24p

 

[mico]

A+


Cons

- 30P limitation. No options in-camera to record higher or lower
- Full Frame DOF will cause problems with focusing in Run-N-Gun
- Full Frame limits lens choices, although great glass available that covers it.
- Larger Body than competitors
- No Crop Options at the time, need to crop in post if you want such a thing.
- Battery Drains quickly when Live View is activated
- No Flip-Out LCD. Locked into EVF or Stationary LCD on back.
- Hot Pixels prone to appearing during extended use
- Heats Up: affects not known, outside of hot pixels.
- Aliasing issues need workarounds
- Jello more prevalent than GH-1, but much better than D90
- Price in comparison to competitors
* 2600 + Tax (2800+ in CA) with no kit lens

This list is based on NOW, not later. Not assumptions or rumors or speculation on either side of the camp. One camera isn't even out yet in the US, the other is already here.

I know a lot of people are going to jump in and start slinging rocks, getting angry. This is my observation from using both cameras.

Both cameras are great, and the important thing to know is that both will produce an incredible image for the price. They come with limitations, and neither are perfect. Far from it.

Pick and Choose your poison. And if I've left something out, please inform me in a respectful manner and I'll be happy to change it.

No anger just utter hysterics.

 

[squig]

I don't have any canon glass. nikon, sigma, minolta, vivitar, russian. you can buy very good glass cheap for any DSLR it's not an issue.

 

[Kholi]

No anger just utter hysterics.

Hey Mico,

Do you have anything to dispute on that list or are you trolling as usual? It would be great if you had something more to add to this forum other than passive trollish remarks.

Thanks.

 

[Psynema]

Huh? Those don't sound like actual, plausible facts. Is anyone really cutting the 1080/30 from an MKii directly? My Desktop is pretty beast and it still won't chop it without hiccups.



1. Do you know if that has any adverse effect on video? Anyone tested yet? I'd like to see if it corrupts image in any way (ghosting, degradation, etc).

2 and 3. Lenses are as much as you want to pay for them. The MKii isn't limited to Canon glass nor are the K7 or GH-1 limited to their respective manufactrurers glass.



3. There's an excellent selection of glass that ranks pretty high. The selection doesn't get smaller just because someone can't or will not pay for them. It's Canon...

5. I'm not sure if that's a factworthy con?



1. Limited lens selection? The camera can take PL mount lenses... if for some reason you're actually only considering auto lenses then sure. Most of us, MKii or Gh-1, aren't using auto lenses. My entire Contax Zeiss collection works with the MKii and the GH-1... I'd hardly call it limited. That might need to be changed to "Panasonic doesn't make a lot of lenses but you can adapt just about any glass to the GH-1"

3. Not really. Premiere cuts natively, you can port to ProRes with FCP.



If you're only looking to match camera manufacturer and their glass then the cost of Canon glass can be called astronomical. Otherwise, the GH-1 and Mark II can and will take loads of different glass, with the GH-1 taking more than the MKii.

Lot to reply to, but to quicken it up...

You can transcode M2 footage. But I actually did manage to cut a birthday party (a ceo's so a fancy one) shot entirely on mark iis sans transcoding. With the proper FCP settings, I managed just fine (although I waited until the very end to Color Correct). I have an iMac Intel 3.06ghz 2gb duo core with 512mb nvidia. It wasn't perfect, but doable.

As far as lens selection critiques...a few examples....


GH1 - I want a telephoto lens that's 2.8 WITH IS and allows aperture control...what do I do? Cuz the other two cameras have that and all I have is a Panasonic kit zoom that's 5.6 on the long end.

Canon - to give a specific example, I'd love to have a tele macro lens with IS and full control - Canon doesn't have that. Nikon has a VR 100mm Macro, canon does not. Pentax has one and GH1 is getting one. I could mount a Nikon to the Mark ii, but then I lose aperture communications with the camera.

Not to sound crabby, I'm aware of using older glass on all the cameras, I'm not naive - I'd love to get a 35mm Flektagon Macro, the Asahi SMC 50 1.4, 85 1.9, and if I get lucky financially, a 75mm biotar. But I've seen the Mark ii footage past 70-85mm WITHOUT IS - it's not a pretty sight, and obviously the older lenses aren't electronic, nor have IS. I got nauseated after a few minutes and even on a tripod, when you focus, or adjust the lens, there are jitters. So that was my main point - ie Canon could stand to release a 100mm IS macro, a 2.8 wide zoom IS (not a 4.0) I love using the older lenses, but face it, it's an advantage to have a new IS/VR lens that can communicate with the camera. You said yourself the Full frame is limiting (plus it's a pain looking up what lenses can cover full frame) and Panasonic needs to start releasing 2.8 glass with OIS.

 

[Kholi]

Right, just saying that they weren't fundamentally accurate. They apply to those who want or need automatic functions, but a number-- if not most-- people are using manual glass.

It's more just a technical response.

I do understand the need for Image Stabilization, by the way, and couldn't agree more about the usefulness of lenses or a camera body that's got it.

 

[mico]

calling me a troll gets you a poo poo you Kholi

you're still funny as hell.

 

[Kholi]

calling me a troll gets you a poo poo you Kholi

you're still funny as hell.

It is what it is. I look forward to further contributions from you.

:beer:

 

[squig]

Me and Kholi have both shot some MKII tests beyond 85mm, me with a steadytracker http://vimeo.com/5435434 and Kholi with his bastard son of redrock and zacuto shoulder rig. I'm not a big fan of handheld but the results show the MKII can be tamed. Kholi are you still gonna re-post yours?

Sure the GH1 is much better handheld, pick your poison.

 

[Kholi]

Me and Kholi have both shot some MKII tests beyond 85mm, me with a steadytracker http://vimeo.com/5435434 and Kholi with his bastard son of redrock and zacuto shoulder rig. I'm not a big fan of handheld but the results show the MKII can be tamed. Kholi are you still gonna re-post yours?

Sure the GH1 is much better handheld, pick your poison.

Ah snap I forgot. I've got some more footage at 300mm as well. I'm on a writing break and about to get back on it but I'll probably put it back up tonight when I can get to the other laptop.

 

[ThomasS]

Just my €0,02...

After my desaster with the GH-1, I returned the camera and decided to buy a 5D Mk II, that's now 2 weeks ago. When I looked at the first clips that came out of my 26" computer screen, I was simply blown away (it was a long time something like this happened). I was really happy to see this kind of image quality - better than expected. You might want to see a sample here, my first test on the Christopher Street day parade in Berlin.

Of course, all of you are right saying the GH-1 is the better video camera from a usability point of view. I, as someone who values good usability and lives in Europe, where 25p is the norm, hesitated a lot before taking this decision.

The 30p->25p conversions (whatever method may be used) are still far from perfect. And the aliasing can also be horrible, if you have e.g. a brick wall as a background. But I swallowed the pill because ot the overall image quality. Honestly, I don't expect my clips to be ever shown on the silver screen.

Arguments regarding the too shallow DOF are IMO nonsense. Nobody forces you to shoot f1.2 wide open. And the low light capability cannot be compared. From my (unscientific) test shots im my living room, I'd say the 5D delivers at ISO 6400 the same or little less noise than the GH-1 at ISO 1600, and the 5D shows not that excessive banding.

And, for me, as a long time Canon shooter, I have a good arsenal of canon glass, so it's from an investment point a good decision (being able to shoot with lensbabies, T/S lenses and fisheyes offers also a huge creative advantage). For the GH-1 I'd had to stock up on glass.
For soneone, who hasn't already lots of glass for a specific mount, the situation might be different.

If the GH-1 wouldn't had the flaws that were a dealbreaker for me, I'd still stick with it. But in the current situation, the 5D is for me the better choice.

 

[PappasArts]

Just my €0,02...

After my desaster with the GH-1,

That sucks.

I read about your defective GH1. It's unfortunate to get a lemon out of the bunch. However it could happen to anyone, and yours was the only one to date that had that weird issue..

To bad you didn't exchange it for a new one, rather than abandon the cool GH1 possibilities over an extreme isolated anomaly....



.
Michael Pappas
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
****Anamorphic DSLR Lens Test Images... links:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1638289&postcount=97
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1637705&postcount=84
Facebook & Myspace:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Pappas/573417404
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.PappasArts.com







.

 

[Simon Höfer]

How good or bad is the stills capability of the GH1 actually?

 

[holdingpattern]

How good or bad is the stills capability of the GH1 actually?

Take a look at the sample shots at Imaging Resource:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

They have many studio photos taken with hundreds of different cameras and you can compare the output of each camera on the same scene with very similar lighting and settings between shots. Granted they are primarily controlled studio shots and may/may not represent the typs of shots you take, but it is one of the best references for quick comparisons I have found outside of actually using all of the cameras.

To my untrained eye, the GH1 does remarkably well, rivaling the image quality of the larger APS-C sensors at low iso, with the best high iso performance of any of the four thirds cameras (except for the unfortunate banding at iso 1600 and especially at 3200). If it wasn't for the banding ....

Since the GH1 uses a smaller sensor than other DSLR's (aside from Olympus and Panasonics other four-thirds cameras) it will probably never match the low-light performance of it's bigger sensor rivals. But then the GH1 is smaller and lighter... it is all a compromise.


Disclaimer, I am still on the waiting list for my GH1 and I am basing this off my observations of pictures posted on the web.

 

[pailes]

I read about your defective GH1. It's unfortunate to get a lemon out of the bunch. However it could happen to anyone, and yours was the only one to date that had that weird issue..

Many PAL users have been complaining about those missing frames. I don't think this has got something to do with his one being a lemon. I think it's a general problem with the PAL models and it even happens in 720p/50.

 

[PappasArts]

Well it's defective units " if " anything at all. Reason why; is there are loads of pal clips from many many pal owners which don't have issues from these happy pal owners... So that means a bad batch if anything. Or inexperience users...


.

 

[Ozpeter]

I've got missing frames (on PAL) but I can't see how user action could make a difference. Where's the "do not miss frames" menu option?

 

[ThomasS]

So that means a bad batch if anything. Or inexperience users...

How much experience do you need to hit the record button, if the camera is in auto mode?
I think, it's a software problem with - at least - the first PAL batch. Either the firmware or the codec in the DSP. See, how fast Panny issued the first update, of course due to the battery "problem". But that means, they were aware of some problems.

BTW an interesting finding: I tried to play back my GH-1 files on a HDC-SD300. The defective clips couldn't be played back, while the correct ones were played back without any problems.