vcassel
Veteran
It's almost amazing how us DVXUsers seem to think we're the primary market for a stills camera. Or that Panasonic is counting on that.
GH1 discontinued; GH2 in September/October
- Thread starter Emanuel
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It's almost amazing how us DVXUsers seem to think we're the primary market for a stills camera. Or that Panasonic is counting on that.
Homunculus
Carbonite Member
on the way to manhattan right before you get into the lincoln tunnel there's a gigantic billboard over all the roadways advertising the GH1
Chris Light
Veteran
i left NJ 13 years ago for the west coast. a couple of billboards, or one gigantic one....doesn't matter. magazines reach more people 
Blackout
Veteran
I see the GH1 all over the subway ads, and now that I use google chrome,which tracks every little moment I spend on every web page and what I do and what I click on, all my ads are for things relevant to shooting, acting, directing, writing, gh1 accessories.....
it's creepy... but I guess it's better to see ads for things you might actually use than things that annoy you... it's more valuable for both the advertiser spending the money on the ads and the person who doesn't want his time wasted and might actually find the thing useful....
but when does it cross the line into total privacy invasion?
This is probably best served in another thread... chrome is just about 4x as fast as IE or firefox, which both got bloated.
it's creepy... but I guess it's better to see ads for things you might actually use than things that annoy you... it's more valuable for both the advertiser spending the money on the ads and the person who doesn't want his time wasted and might actually find the thing useful....
but when does it cross the line into total privacy invasion?
This is probably best served in another thread... chrome is just about 4x as fast as IE or firefox, which both got bloated.
Barry_Green
Moderator
which leads to...
There is a word that describes this condition -- it's called "solipsism." It's when someone thinks that the world works according to their own perspective of how they see things. It's the notion that their particular perspective, is the only possible perspective.
Sorry, the world doesn't work that way.
And the existence of a hack used by some of us rabid indie types, will not affect the design, development, marketing, or market acceptance of a digital still camera that's marketed to the masses at Best Buy.
The GH1's target audience isn't independent filmmakers, it's end consumers. The GH2's target isn't independent filmmakers, it's end consumers. The AF100 was born specifically to address the wants and needs of independent filmmakers, while still serving the needs of the professional videographer.
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Barry_Green
Moderator
This is absolutely 100% exactly correct.They'll surely have some point of communication between their technologies' development task forces. But what Barry meant was that even a sort of competition you can find from their action in the field. They compete for sales. They can even not to give a damn for the sister's success (of course, under my words, not Barry's
I know it happens. They just want to fulfill their share of the market or what they settled down in their paperwork in the beginning of the year. Sometimes, when the mark has been reached in the middle or 2/3 of the year, they can even not to care about their own sales results from then on, before the year ends.
I've seen this to happen in Panasonic, Sony, etc. They even say it with no reserve, go figure. One of these examples that I've contacted with, is now the man in charge of the professional/broadcast division of a big company's european branch.
Chris Light
Veteran
but then again,you may have a point...about a million people use the Lincoln Tunnel every day...i don't miss that traffic ;-)
Chris Light
Veteran
and Safari>Chrome in my experience...and i'm a PC.
Blackout
Veteran
I'm not saying DVXUSERS control panasonic with their mind, but every major indie photo blog, site, mag, that deals with the "DSLR-CRAZE" for film making right now has mentioned the GH1 and it's hack - including all the major Canon camps which get way more press from the 'PRO' film makers than Panasonic. We are not some little 'fringe' group. It's EVERYWHERE, where people are going in to B&H and asking for the GH1.3 or the Tester13 GH1 model.
No joke.
When you type LUMIX GH1 or Panasonic GH1 into google, the third auto complete search term is HACK
They will HAVE to address this somehow, or the GH2 will be a dead horse. The GH1 sold like hotcakes and was not even available... but people do research now... the GH1 is too high end for 'disney world tourists' .. they'd never want to deal they would go with a lower model.
BARRY: "The AF100 was born specifically to address the wants and needs of independent filmmakers, while still serving the needs of the professional videographer."
Then why the hell does it use a consumer GH1 chip? Why doesn't it have it'sown chip? Looks like it was born from paying attention that pro people were using the consumer version to try and get pro results and succeeding in some cases. So I would say that shows they were paying attention to usage.
No joke.
When you type LUMIX GH1 or Panasonic GH1 into google, the third auto complete search term is HACK
They will HAVE to address this somehow, or the GH2 will be a dead horse. The GH1 sold like hotcakes and was not even available... but people do research now... the GH1 is too high end for 'disney world tourists' .. they'd never want to deal they would go with a lower model.
BARRY: "The AF100 was born specifically to address the wants and needs of independent filmmakers, while still serving the needs of the professional videographer."
Then why the hell does it use a consumer GH1 chip? Why doesn't it have it'sown chip? Looks like it was born from paying attention that pro people were using the consumer version to try and get pro results and succeeding in some cases. So I would say that shows they were paying attention to usage.
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vcassel
Veteran
If they HAVE to address the DSLR film maker craze it wouldn't be with another camera that's primarily a stills cam. Dead horse? Whatever you say, but IMO you have your markets confused and/or exaggerated.
vcassel
Veteran
Because it's usable and probably a cheaper route than developing a new one from the ground up? Cannibalizing tech is nothing new. What are you so seemingly frustrated with? What do we actually know of the GH2 that has you up in arms?
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Pietro Impagliazzo
Well-known member
Can't we have more companies like RED? (I pray...)
Because, if what you say is true, it's the only company that accounts filmmakers on the rise as a considerable market share.
At first this made me a little irate but I've thought about it and maybe you're not in a position to understand the inner workings of the design world.
I design electronics for commercial and consumer markets. I use parts that can be used for everything from some person's cell phone to another person's testing equipment that they use at their job.
It's not the part that makes a device, it's the sum of ALL the parts that make a device.
Who cares if the GH1 and the AF100 use the same sensor? Where did you read that the GH1 uses the sensor to it's full potential anyway? How do we know that the sensor in the GH1 isn't state-of-the-art and the intended design isn't holding it back? They aren't going to spend MILLIONS on sensor fab just to use it in a single product. They will try to leverage it across many products. Because of this, many companies who design ICs will try to make the parts as universal as possible and they will overdesign as much as possible just so they can tweak and make new products with different abilities.
I think there has been a lot of conjecture in recent threads about things like the sensor and the codec.
C'mon guys, do you really think a multi-billion dollar, multi-national company would just make one sensor with only one product in mind? Do you think they would fail to visualize the future needs of their customer and their future products? That's just silly to think they would be that naive.
Also, any talk of Panny changing their gameplan on the supposed GH2 just because of the hack is also ludicrous. These devices take YEARS to develop. At this point, with the supposed unveiling in a month or two, the design is FINISHED and last minute testing and verification is being done. There is NO WAY they would be redoing hardware or software to suit a few folks working with hacked firmware. Not only would that be considered a waste of time and money because they aren't the intended consumer market, they aren't going to spend the time and money to do the re-verification and risk missing deadlines.
The other thing that's pretty silly is that people are getting testy about a couple products that haven't even come out yet. It's true they might flop but for all we know they will exceed our expectations.
Nobody knows yet, but coming from the design world, I'm sure they didn't paint themselves into a corner. They've been around for a long time and make lots of money. Companies don't do that by turning out crap.
Barry_Green
Moderator
In what way? Companies that listen to their customers and build what they want? That's what Panasonic Broadcast does -- and largely why they've been so successful in this field and why this website has gotten so huge. Feedback from the marketplace, is what differentiates Red and Panasonic from the rest.
Red is a dedicated digital cinema company. They make one product (so far) and they've sold a grand total of six thousand of them. Nikon and Canon probably sell a hundred thousand SLRs per month, each. Compared to the mass market in general, filmmakers *aren't* a considerable market share.
Which is why it's the smaller companies that will respond to what we want. Which is why I don't expect the SLRs to really care, in the long run, about what we want. But a company like Red, or a smaller division like Panasonic Broadcast, takes our market seriously and puts us at the forefront.
Barry_Green
Moderator
It doesn't. And your posts are extremely confrontational, and I've already deleted half of my response to you. I recommend that you take a moment before posting again, because you're not doing yourself any favors.
Barry_Green
Moderator
e x a c t l y.
Homunculus
Carbonite Member
Barry the biggest problem with your take is that you keep claiming that the GH1 is firmly a stills shooter whereas even Panasonic itself disagrees with you, just take a gander at the official site here
http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-...eras/model.DMC-GH1K_11002_7000000000000005702
and notice how the very first thing they start touting is not its stills, in fact they're barely mentioned. Panasonic itself on its OFFICIAL site talks nonstop about its HD video recording capabilities. This puts a few holes in the theory some of you are espousing here that Panasonic is treating the GH1 as a stills first camera and as such the AF100 is completely unrelated.
It seems clear to me by that evidence that Panasonic in fact strongly considers GH1 a video camera as well, no matter what the 'body' of it looks like (i.e. resembles a DSLR). Remember the GH1 is not even a DSLR PERIOD, so that on its own separates it from the likes of 5d/7d, etc.
Secondly the fact that GH1 is the first or one of the first "DSLRs" to feature such extensive manual controls and VIDEO form factor proves that there's a strong video slant to its engineering (despite perhaps that video slant not being towards PROFESSIONAL level since there is no live HDMI out).
So the point is, I find the argument that GH1 is completely removed from the world of AF100 to be both a specious and fatuous canard!
The fact of the matter is, someone at the highest corporate end of Panasonic still controls both entities under their umbrella, and still guides the future of their developments and as such I stand by my views that the GH13 has thrown a huge monkey wrench into the long term plans of Panasonic for the AF100 and GH2.
But like Barry says, this is all speculation on ALL of our parts until a few more months from now, but we will see in a few months who was right ........
http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-...eras/model.DMC-GH1K_11002_7000000000000005702
and notice how the very first thing they start touting is not its stills, in fact they're barely mentioned. Panasonic itself on its OFFICIAL site talks nonstop about its HD video recording capabilities. This puts a few holes in the theory some of you are espousing here that Panasonic is treating the GH1 as a stills first camera and as such the AF100 is completely unrelated.
It seems clear to me by that evidence that Panasonic in fact strongly considers GH1 a video camera as well, no matter what the 'body' of it looks like (i.e. resembles a DSLR). Remember the GH1 is not even a DSLR PERIOD, so that on its own separates it from the likes of 5d/7d, etc.
Secondly the fact that GH1 is the first or one of the first "DSLRs" to feature such extensive manual controls and VIDEO form factor proves that there's a strong video slant to its engineering (despite perhaps that video slant not being towards PROFESSIONAL level since there is no live HDMI out).
So the point is, I find the argument that GH1 is completely removed from the world of AF100 to be both a specious and fatuous canard!
The fact of the matter is, someone at the highest corporate end of Panasonic still controls both entities under their umbrella, and still guides the future of their developments and as such I stand by my views that the GH13 has thrown a huge monkey wrench into the long term plans of Panasonic for the AF100 and GH2.
But like Barry says, this is all speculation on ALL of our parts until a few more months from now, but we will see in a few months who was right ........
stoneinapond
Veteran
I think the moderates should just shut this road wreck down.
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