GH1.3 black levels

Blackout

Blackout

Veteran
This is something I'm noticing as I am doing more and more complex edits...

When I shoot with the GH1.3 jobless D settings, full manual, and I am happy with all my settings, exposure, on the little flip out lcd monitor.. and then I check the file on a real monitor... the black levels look great..

When I play the native .mts files on Windows 7 64 bit, the footage looks great, the black levels look correct and everything looks like how I shot it...

but..

When I import into Sony vegas, everything gets blacker.. darker.. Like the ire went way down... is there some black level setting I am missing? I have been fixing this with filters so far..

I also noticed that the same thing happens if I just upload a native .mts file directly from the camera to youtube - it lowers or darkens the black levels..

for instance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvD3rQuW6IQ&fmt=37

Nothing serious about that clip.. so please don't be criticle...just some quick behind the scenes footage on a music video shoot, however on my computer LCD and on the camera, the footage looks correctly exposed and I can see the faces better.. when I uploaded it to youtube the blacks got way darker.. same thing in vegas.

What causes this?


and...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSfqYsbvO98&fmt=37

This one is not as bad.. but same thing.. native file right off the came uploaded to youtube.. blacks got way blacker.... whole thing looks like it got stopped down a bit... in my native .mts files there is more shadow detail and I can fully see her eyes.. in this clip it looks way to black around her eyes....
 
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I wonder if your video card is doing something different for youtube and Vegas? I know when I watch youtube on my monitor all of the blacks look crushed. Then if I use the display on my laptop everything looks fine. Also when I pull up my photoeditor software the blacks looked crushed again.

I adjusted my video card so that my photo editor looks good even with the monitor. However, youtube and my desktop are out of whack the other way. They now look overexposed. Are there independent video card color settings for different types of programs? Maybe directX vs. not directX? Just grasping at straws here as I don't know the answer and I have the same issue.
 
Well... it doesn't happen to me in premiere pro cs5, but I don't really like editing in that... I find I am much quicker and efficient with vegas.... As soon as I throw my mts file into the timeline in vegas.. the blacks are darker.. I throw a filter on and set everything how I like anyway and then render out to a high bitrate sony avc mp4, and when I upload THAT to youtube - or burn it to a blu-ray, everything stays correct and the colors and blacks look accurate how I set them... so.... it's weird... I don't know exactly what the issue is... it can't be that my card renders youtube differently because it doesn't happen on other youtube videos and when i do the process as I just said.
 
That sounds annoying. PP CS5 has no such issue. I like AE CS5 being able to import PP CS5 project.

Can you tweak SVP's rendering behavior? Are you sure it's 100% quality?
 
Yeah.... I just really like the vegas workflow better... PP CS5 seems so clunky and alien to me because I have become so fast on vegas.... but still.. why the strange black issue even from youtube's encoder when uploading a native untouched clip?
 
Don't fall in love with a particular camera or a software :)

Try SVP in win7 in macbook pro if you have enough cash to burn. Hehe.
 
Man.. I thought it was "don't fall in love with a particular woman or look," now I can't love me software.. what a cold harsh world... ;P
 
Blackout said:
Well... it doesn't happen to me in premiere pro cs5, but I don't really like editing in that... I find I am much quicker and efficient with vegas.... As soon as I throw my mts file into the timeline in vegas.. the blacks are darker.. I throw a filter on and set everything how I like anyway and then render out to a high bitrate sony avc mp4, and when I upload THAT to youtube - or burn it to a blu-ray, everything stays correct and the colors and blacks look accurate how I set them... so.... it's weird... I don't know exactly what the issue is... it can't be that my card renders youtube differently because it doesn't happen on other youtube videos and when i do the process as I just said.
Click to expand...


Does this have something to do with the 7.5% 'black setup' vs. 0%. and NTSC... even though you're shooting HD, square pixels and all?
 
It sure seems like that.... I remember this issue when I first entered the DV world... but I don't see anywhere to change it or set it....
 
Yes...I have the same issues with Vegas. It's been like this 4ever...but I never heard of a fix.
 
Blackout said:
What causes this?


and...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSfqYsbvO98&fmt=37

This one is not as bad.. but same thing.. native file right off the came uploaded to youtube.. blacks got way blacker.... whole thing looks like it got stopped down a bit... in my native .mts files there is more shadow detail and I can fully see her eyes.. in this clip it looks way to black around her eyes....
Click to expand...
Well, since stoneinapond got the obvious one out the way, I'll go out on a limb and blame youtube's built-in emo-filter.
 
As far as I know, Vegas can only process in RGB, and your mts shots are using a 4:2:0 color space, hence the blackening.
So either do a color space conversion or check for a plugin that may allow for native editing. Check Mainconcept.
 
svecher said:
Well, since stoneinapond got the obvious one out the way, I'll go out on a limb and blame youtube's built-in emo-filter.
Click to expand...

Ok I'l give him the other one.. but how does the Russian model look emo? Now in the other video.. my little cuz is def a lil emo kid... so you may be right there...
 
stonebat said:
That sounds annoying. PP CS5 has no such issue. I like AE CS5 being able to import PP CS5 project.

Can you tweak SVP's rendering behavior? Are you sure it's 100% quality?
Click to expand...

The renders I get out of SVP are by far superior to the renders I get out of Adobe CS5 media encoder. It seems ridiculous to me, but it's true.
If I want to use Encore to make 24p DVDs or Blu-rays, I do not render with CS5, I render with vegas and check the box so that Encore does not re-encode it, and it comes out a lot better than if i edited the native files in CS5 and let CS5 do the encode. I may be doing something wrong but I have tinkered and tinkered and tinkered and the sony avc codec just looks way way better to me and everyone I have shown. Youtube also likes the sony avc mp4 codec much more than it likes the main concept codec.
 
mapombo said:
As far as I know, Vegas can only process in RGB, and your mts shots are using a 4:2:0 color space, hence the blackening.
So either do a color space conversion or check for a plugin that may allow for native editing. Check Mainconcept.
Click to expand...

Is color space conversion one of the filters? I have vegas 9e. Or are you referring to going neoscene cineform?
I really don't like to go to cineform unless I absolutely have to. I discussed this in another thread but even on the highest settings, I see a slight quality hit and some added noise. It is ever so slight but it's there, at least on the PC version.
 
Try messing with the pixel format in project properties. 8-bit gives a lighter image (useful if your footage is already in 'computer RGB'), almost as if there's more DR, and 32-bit gives an image with more contrast (for footage with 'studio RGB').
 
Color profiles?

Color profiles?

Could it be that you have calibrated your screen and have an ICC-profile installed in your OS?

Applications need to be color-profile aware to display images correctly, and maybe Premiere Pro is ICC-aware while Youtube and Vegas aren't?

(curious about it since I've got a calibrated screen for Photoshop and thinking about what video editing software to get into)
 
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Thanks Caveman... I am trying to get my skull wrapped around the article in link two...... I think I almost understand... if I just bash my head against a wall a few more times I may figure out how to correctly set things up in vegas 9e so that it doesn't crush the black levels when I edit in 32 bit full mode.
 
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