Gasp! (Interesting Canon 5D & 7D rumor)

[Eddy Robinson]

(Canon business soltutions)

HOT DAMN! It must be a camera that rolls out 35mm answer prints AS YOU SHOOT!!!!

I wonder if Zacuto will make a take-up reel with a little bell that dings when it's full?

 

[TimurCivan]

i have a feeling the 29th announcement is a XHH1s replacment thats APSC sized sensor with EF/EFs mount.

24/25/50/60P

my theory is that it will have a built in Follow focus wheel that will control the servo motorsi for focus.

About $9,999

probbaly will record HDV l, but with a SDI full raster out SDI, that "can" recrord to a possible sRAW recorder ( about 8K$ )

if its supercool, it will run "ISO" instead of Gain. IE we can dial it down to 100 for daylight, or when you have the lights, or up to 3200 for candlelight.


If it isnt this. it should be. This is what will win inthe market right now. WIN. WIN. WIN.

I mean we drool for the crappy H264 that the 5D spits out. Imagine if it fed a high bitrate AVCHD codec? One that could properly compress 1080p. i mean its not RAW, but its perfect for most users. i would be thrilled with that.

and before you complain about price, this would be a fully functional camera, with XLR's, 35mm DOF, amazing lowlight, a suitable codec, and actual ergonomics. i would pay 10g's for that. Ive been dreaming of a camera like this for 5 years. the 5D and 7D are just a big tease to me. i did a doc with the 5D and while the footage is mindblowingly beautiful, i had to carry a DVX100 around and record audio to that. its retarded to work this way.

 

[USLatin]

Thought I should mention that is would seem Jim Jannard is very happy, and that there are hints that they MAY have fired up an Epic. Either that or something fan-freaggin'-tastic cause they are very happy. So... just 0.02 in case Scarlet's are out sooner than many might have thought.

 

[SPZ]

Thought I should mention that is would seem Jim Jannard is very happy, and that there are hints that they MAY have fired up an Epic. Either that or something fan-freaggin'-tastic cause they are very happy. So... just 0.02 in case Scarlet's are out sooner than many might have thought.

Yes, bu they only talk 16k Epic X. Haven't heard them talking about any Scarlet. Yes, they share components, but I just don't see them producing Scarlets just yet. Maybe next year, perhaps.

 

[USLatin]

Well yes, there will be a wait. However for some people it might be enough to skip a 7D with a RAW module and live with what they have now.

BTW: It was the ASIC, so apparently they did fire up an Epic-X! :grin: However no details as to how it is running yet.

I dunno, maybe they roll the S35 Scarlet out by 1st quarter 2010... maybe a 2/3" fixed lens Scarlet gives you enough DoF and you chose to go Red Code... fuken crazy time for cameras! :beer:

 

[SPZ]

... fuken crazy time for cameras! :beer:

No more excuses for crappy shots!

 

[dadoboy]

I can imagine their excitement at getting their creation up and running!
For us customers though, the wait is probably at least a few more months even for the Epic X to roll out.
They have to spend considerable time testing and fixing problems this time around.
It's just too excruciating and costly to have parts or a camera that doesn't work properly on set. It's too costly to budget a spare camera body "just in case".
Kudos to them though, it all sound very promising.

 

[USLatin]

It is all going to happen quickly. Many cameras are hitting the market, and Red is very well funded. My guess is that they will put massive resources towards testing and it may be as soon as December. The painful wait is for that very concern of yours which will mostly be fixed by the ASIC if I understand correctly. This camera won't be a 100% computer like Red One. That chip will handle all the intensive stuff and be reliable as heck.

This one NEEDS to be solid, it needs to be studio-reliable. If it isn't it would become EXPONENTIALLY hard for Red to really take hold as a reputable company and it might forever remain under the Red One clout. That would be perfectly fine for many, but not for big shows, or one camera shows with no time or a good DIT to solve issues. Jim Jannard made himself a multi B-illionaire. I seriously doubt he doesn't see that.

However, whether it is released in time for YOU is an other thing. I am getting a 7D one way or an other. It will make for a fantastic personal camera, pro still camera, and director's digital viewfinder. Maybe one day I get the RAW module for it. Maybe one day I'll be able to afford my very own Epic 645.

 

[hermmermferm]

Going back to the RAW recording module:

All seems very unlikely due to the data rates involved. 18MPixel RAW at 14-bit 24fps is around 864MBytes/s. If they bin or pixel drop to 1920x1080 RGB, that is still 300MBytes/s. With the little lossless compression many of the RAW modes offer, the compression rarely gets to 2:1. But even at 150MB/s the flash media is not fast enough. Same all goes for CinemaDNG. Canon hasn't licensed CineForm RAW, and a doubt they could license Redcode RAW, and these are the only suitable RAW compressors out there to achieve flash media data rates. If you skip RAW, the next best high dynamic range compression solution would be JPEG XR -- no camera even has that for stills, let alone a motion version.

David Newman
CTO, CineForm

Totally agree with Mr. Newman, but what about the Ikonoskop and CinemaDNG?

The 80GB Ikonoskop Memory Cartridge is the fastest memory on the market with writing speeds exceeding 240MB/second. That is almost twice the speed of the closest competitor.
The memory cartridge carries 80GB Solid State Memory in a solid aluminium housing. That equals 12 minutes of uncompressed RAW footage in 1920 x 1080 pixel with a framerate of 25 fps.

How fast do you really need to go? I'm confused..

 

[stip]

vague rumors about the RAW module already appeared in march (together with the APS-C camcorder rumor). Nikon is working on a video raw codec as well, similar to their NEF codec for stills. rumors say Sony may enter video dslr market in 2010.

quite some reasons for Jannard to be excited

 

[ydgmdlu]

I mean we drool for the crappy H264 that the 5D spits out. Imagine if it fed a high bitrate AVCHD codec?

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. You do realize that AVCHD is H.264, right? And by specification, it is a lower bit rate version (17 Mbps or 24 Mbps).

 

[Ian-T]

Right, AVCHD only goes up to 24Mbps as far as I know. The Canon 7D is twice that data rate. Unless he's referring to the omission of I Frames....which really the higher data rates compensates for.

 

[ydgmdlu]

I am sure of one thing only.....

when there is a vacuum of information, we fill it with whatever we want.

I dont mean this as an insult cos my imaginations running wild re this 29th sept announcement but its sounding like a wish list.

This demonstrates one of the good things about RED's initial strategy: By controlling all information, they prevented rumors from running wild and thus kept expectations in check. How many people here will be groaning when whatever happens on the 29th has nothing to do with cameras at all? They have no right to groan, since Canon wasn't at fault for their baseless, unrealistic expectations.

 

[ydgmdlu]

Unless he's referring to the omission of I Frames....which really the higher data rates compensates for.

You mean B frames.

But B frames don't seem to be in the specification, otherwise Panasonic wouldn't have been able to get away with the AVCHD implementation in the GH1. He should've said "proper AVCHD codec." But even then, how's that better than what the 5D and 7D are already doing? Haven't users determined that the 40-44 Mbps H.264 from their cameras outperforms even proper AVCHD?

AVCHD is not the way to go for a $10K prosumer camcorder. It was always designed to be a consumer codec; that's why the bit rate is so low. It should be AVC-Intra instead.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

How many people here will be groaning when whatever happens on the 29th has nothing to do with cameras at all?

Agreed.

So far, all signs point to the 29th announcement having absolutely nothing to do with cameras at all... so anyone groaning is definitely not paying attention to reality.

 

[ydgmdlu]

I should also mention, since nobody else has, that there were credible-sounding rumors that Canon would make a significant, camera-related announcement during IBC. IBC came and went, and nothing happened. Just about every Canon rumor discussed at DVXuser in the last several weeks has been on the same level, at best, as the rumor about IBC. So why do we discuss them as if we were treating them seriously at all?

 

[mhood]

so why do we discuss them as if we were treating them seriously at all?

7d?

 

[ydgmdlu]

7d?

The 7D was a totally different case. There was a flood of information in the week or two before the announcement, all of which was way more credible (and substantial) than the rumors here. All that we have here are whispers being relayed through Web forums. How many major blogs (like Engadget) were reporting the 7D information? How many are reporting these rumors?

 

[stip]

7d rumors started with a whisper too, like I said before, canon's RAW output module rumor first appeared in early spring this year. I think it is credible, either way, if you ask why to discuss this, then why you keep this thread alive by posting so much

 

[Ian-T]

You mean B frames.

.

You're right .

From what I understand (or recently read) Canon had been talking about the 7D and its features from almost two years back.