GH5 Game Over, Panasonic

joe12south said:
Whatever your feelings about processing like artificial sharpening and noise reduction, it's hard to argue with a straight face that a lack of compression artifacts is not "better".
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I have a straight face on and I can say it may not be better for some. Go back to what Thomas said - not everyone wants to deal with RAW or huge data files. So for them, it is not better. Wow, I am really impressed with the BM4KP samples. They really have me wanting the camera. But I don't want one for other reasons. Besides, as we know, this format is dead now that 'everyone is moving to full-frame' :) September 25th - Game over Black Magic.... and so it goes on.
 
joe12south said:
Thomas, I love that you are even more of a curmudgeon than I am. Can you talk to my wife? :tongue:
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You haven't met my wife then. She has both of us beat put together.

I'm honestly not trying to get angry here over this camera or that. I'm 200% ok with people not liking the GH5. What I don't like is the language of "this camera sucks" or "it looks terrible" or "Game over Panasonic". I find those to be pretty negative childish statements not befitting of a professional. Even if they were meant as a light form of humor I just don't see the point. I don't make it a habit to go up to Canon users and tell them their cameras suck. I don't understand why people still use them but if they do I don't have a beef with it. Its just a darn camera. I think we can all find more mature ways to discuss camera differences here. There has to be a better more sophisticated way to talk about the pros and cons and analyze the differences in a productive way.

Yes the Pocket 4k has image attribute advantages. It bleeping better for providing raw. I love what I see so far but that still isn't enough to make me want one.
 
I don't understand what so many people refer to when they speak of the increased processing time with the BMP4K. I shoot with LOG on panny cameras, and sometimes prores log from atomos. Yes, you can spend a lot of time processing if you want and dialing everything in. But I found the results of simply using premiere with an adjustment layer and LUT laid over the footage a superior starting point to baked in looks, and assume this would be the same instant/quick access to BMP4K footage - and that, in a codec quicker to edit (less CPU use) than the GHx codecs?

To me, forced LOG isn't a big deal. ProRes is great, if you can afford the storage space, which is more affordable than ever.
 
the GH5 is a camera that has been out for over a year and has been performing reliably without hiccups since day 1 also you can shoot with it TODAY and NEXT WEEK.
The Blackmagic will be available end of September (No) or October (maybe but probably not) or November or December or January. Then the camera needs to be out in the wild for a month to see if its actually works as promised then it will take a couple of months for some firmware fix to come out so around spring


QUOTE=Shirozina;1986766160]The GH5 does not look terrible in the big scale of things so if the BMPCC 4k makes it look terrible it sounds like hysteria rather than any rational evaluation and invites the inevitable disappointment when you actually get your hands on one......[/QUOTE]
 
joe12south said:
The sample files are straight out of the camera. I'd be perfectly comfortable turning them over to a client for editing if I was only shooting. (Alternately you can record with a LUT baked-in.) And if I was responsible for a quick turn-around edit, I'd apply BMD's LUT and be done with it. If you have a half-decent graphics card, and you need to do so, Resolve's NR can be applied at export.

Basically, I see no meaningful downside to BMD's approach, and no practical upside (other than cheaper media) to Panasonic's approach.
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Keep in mind all we've seen is 3200 iso, which most cameras these days do fairly clean. 6400 iso would be a better test or 10,000 iso.
 
Thomas Smet said:
There are a thousand different levels of film makers out there with some not even wanting to grade their footage and just slap on a single lut and be done with it.
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I'm one of those. I took the sample footage into Resolve, used ACES, made some very quick and slight Contrast and WB adjustments and damn!...that's a nice image! Having recently shot with a rented 5s, I was not overly impressed with the image, especially at higher ISO's. I really thought it would perform better.

But with the P4K, it's just...really good, even at the higher ISO's.
 
Thomas Smet said:
in no way shape or form does that mean game over for Panasonic.
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You have to keep in mind what I meant by that. BMD is offering more, (and I think better), for less.

If you don't need photos, it's very hard to recommend Panny over the Pocket, at least when budget matters.
 
filmguy123 said:
I wish I better understood what it was that creates such a pleasing image here.
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I think for me, in no small part it's BMD's color science. I just find it noticeably superior to Panasonic's.

There's more to it than that, of course. There was a very "film-like" feel to the sample footage compared to my footage from the 5s. That could simply be superior skill of the shooters, different lenses, etc. I'll get a better sense of that once I own a P4K and compare my own footage from both cameras.
 
filmguy123 said:
they'd never be able to correctly identify which looks better or worse or what camera is what.
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That's probably true, but I consider it part of my job to be more critical about image and sound quality than the client.

If I'm not...

I think the Pocket will satisfy that threshold better than, and for significantly less money than, the 5s.
 
Jim Simon said:
I think for me, in no small part it's BMD's color science.
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Most people who use or switch to a Blackmagic camera say the same thing and many never end up using anything else.

Still though...IBIS is tough to give up, ha. (At least in the GH5.)
 
I've ordered one to complement but not replace my GH5. The GH5 has an EVF, a 'killer' stabilisation system and 'workable' AF so it can't replace it. The omission of IBS on the GH5s put me off getting this model but the BMPCC 4k is a steal as you get ProRes, RAW, Dual ISO, 5" monitor, XLR sound, Thunderbolt, Davinci Resolve Studio . Why the hell are people criticising it at this price???? If it was double or triple the price it would still offer good value for the feature set. I can only think that BM are making a loss on these in order to keep competitive against the bigger players like Panasonic, Canon, Nikon and Sony who have started to wake up to the fact that a lot of their user base want's something better than the highly compressed 8bit 4.2.0 'delivery' codecs they have been offering.
 
icarusfilm said:
the GH5 is a camera that has been out for over a year and has been performing reliably without hiccups since day 1 also you can shoot with it TODAY and NEXT WEEK.
The Blackmagic will be available end of September (No) or October (maybe but probably not) or November or December or January. Then the camera needs to be out in the wild for a month to see if its actually works as promised then it will take a couple of months for some firmware fix to come out so around spring


QUOTE=Shirozina;1986766160]The GH5 does not look terrible in the big scale of things so if the BMPCC 4k makes it look terrible it sounds like hysteria rather than any rational evaluation and invites the inevitable disappointment when you actually get your hands on one......
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[/QUOTE]

Ha Ha https://youtu.be/wq6yKvbFwAc
 
Their last camera - URSA Broadcast - was actually the most perfect release they've ever had, but pretty much everything before that was a mess...which all ended up beautifully though.
 
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