joe12south
Veteran
I don't think so. The RAW image out of the camera might be noisier - SHOULD be noisier - but Resolve's NR is superior in every way, except for speed.
GH5 Game Over, Panasonic
- Thread starter Jim Simon
- Start date
But after a day of shooting, I don't want to have to spend another day processing this footage to make it usable, when I can get usable footage in-camera with the GH5s.
I expect the BMPCC 4K camera will produce the best looking image between these two cameras, but the GH5s will do all of this in-camera at real-time speed.
Bern Caughey
Veteran
Yes. Believe it can also burn-in LUTs.
joe12south
Veteran
There's a reason "Cinema" is in the name. This is a camera for filmmakers. The image is expected to be graded.
Tthe GH5s real time NR begins to looks like plastic as the ISO creeps up. I'm generally a fan of in-camera noise reduction when recording to a super-lossy codec, but the GH5s high ISO image is really artificial looking even compared to the GH5.
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NorBro
Major Contributor
On a weird note, the BMCC is in stock at B&H. This camera was discontinued 2 years ago. (Ironically, only the MFT mount version is available.)
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...am26kmft_Blackmagic_Design_Cinema_Camera.html
Maybe the 4K BMPCC's massive interest brought it back for a bit as Blackmagic's exposure has been soaring these last 2 months.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...am26kmft_Blackmagic_Design_Cinema_Camera.html
Maybe the 4K BMPCC's massive interest brought it back for a bit as Blackmagic's exposure has been soaring these last 2 months.
Filmmakers shoot with everything. With the original BMPCC camera I've seen gorgeous footage and I've also seen family beach vacations shot with it, so like every other camera on the market it's going to be used by lots of non-filmmakers too.
You will have to post some links to what you are talking about, as I can't recall seeing anything looking very "plastic" from the GH5s footage I've seen so far.
I do remember some GH3 or GH4 footage where the texture of a small kitchen sponge in a wide-angle shot started to disappear when the NR was cranked too high, but I think this is true for every implementation of noise-reduction. ( NeatVideo is one of my favorite NR tools, but it has the same NR issues as everything else if you set the NR controls too high )
It all comes down to using your camera controls effectively, so that things like in-camera NR are not set too high. This takes some testing and practice, but it's really not that big of a deal.
I agree. Not sure if he has both a GH5 and GH5S which I do and feel the GH5S image is better. Slightly, but it is better. For my uses the BMCC4K does not fit my needs at all. Every one has their own needs. Bit like saying a sports car cannot carry 8 people so its rubbish !!!
*HINT*
The GH5(s) temporal noise reduction still smudgens low contrast textures like hell even at -5 and even causes other artifacts such as ghosting.
*/HINT*
I would be more than happy if Panasonic can give us an bypass option to both NR and Sharpening.
But maybe that would be too close to what the EVA-1 does?
DPStewart
Veteran
FWIW I had a GH5s for about two weeks, and I thought it was the best image Panasonic has produced from the GH line.
With that said, it still had all the typical Panny compression and image tweaking artifacts - like the noise reduction - not to mention the fixed pattern noise bug when using custom frame rates of 62 and above, and I sold it as soon as I could when the new Blackmagic 4k Pocket was announced.
All these small, compressed codec, DSLRs and mirrorless cameras produce an absolutely fine image for EVERY purpose short of image-critical work.
I just didn't hold on to the GH5s because I felt it was too expensive for what it does, it will be replaced in 18-months by a new model, and there are zillions of comparable cameras for those other types of jobs floating around everywhere in the environment. Heck, have you seen what an iPhone X on a gimbal can produce?
With that said, it still had all the typical Panny compression and image tweaking artifacts - like the noise reduction - not to mention the fixed pattern noise bug when using custom frame rates of 62 and above, and I sold it as soon as I could when the new Blackmagic 4k Pocket was announced.
All these small, compressed codec, DSLRs and mirrorless cameras produce an absolutely fine image for EVERY purpose short of image-critical work.
I just didn't hold on to the GH5s because I felt it was too expensive for what it does, it will be replaced in 18-months by a new model, and there are zillions of comparable cameras for those other types of jobs floating around everywhere in the environment. Heck, have you seen what an iPhone X on a gimbal can produce?
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The only data I've heard direct from BMD is that it is a third-party sensor. It was not developed in-house as with all previous sensors.
This particular BMD employee did not specify which company actually produced the sensor.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Yeah a Steve Soderbergh movie that bombs.
joe12south
Veteran
I'm not trying to disparage the GH cameras. I own a GH3, 2 GH4's and a GH5. I use one of them almost every day. I've also rented the GH5s and put it through my usual gauntlet of tests.
I was set to pull the trigger on a GH5S, and would have done so already if I weren't currently in Africa where it is hard to acquire...and then the BMPCC 4K was announced.
Let me restate: I think that the GH5 is the best all-around hybrid camera you can buy. It ticks more boxes for more people than any other camera. I am confident that I will use it more (almost every day) than the BMPCC 4K. There are scenarios in which the GH5 will absolutely kick the crap out of the BM...but narrative film making is not one of them.
I'm also not trying to imply that narrative film making is "better" than any other use of a camera. The vast majority of what I do does not fit that narrow category. I love shooting concerts. I even enjoy shooting some docs. Heck, I even enjoy shooting the occasional wedding (I do it as my wedding present for friends.) I just like to shoot! The GH5 will continue to be my go to camera for those, and many other uses.
...BUT...
My primary passion is film making with a capital "F". And for that use, pure image quality, and flexibility in post, trumps every other concern for me other than price. (I have to be able to actually afford it.) If the BMPCC 4K performs as expected (and there is every reason to expect it will) it will clearly, objectively, produce higher technical quality images than a GH5s paired with an Atomos recorder (currently the best you can do) for far less money. In fact, so much less that I can run coverage with dual cameras.
I'm sorry if that bothers some people, but I have always been very objective about my qualification of tools. Look back at my testing of V-LOG L. Not exactly singing Panny's praises, eh? But you can also look back and see me defend Panny's use of NR. I understand why it is necessary when recording to the format we have to record to. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to call it out when it is visibly over-agressive and fake looking (High ISO GH5S.)
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joe12south
Veteran
I own the GH5, I've extensively tested the GH5S.
At comparable ISO's, the GH5S looks better. Color reproduction, dynamic range, and noise are all somewhat better than the GH5. Small improvements, but enough that I was going to sell my two GH4's to buy a GH5S.
I've never said that the BMPCC 4K is for everyone - in fact I've repeatedly said the opposite. The GH5 is the better all around camera. (It's also better all-around than the GH5S.)
joe12south
Veteran
I'm in Africa until September and don't have access to my test files, but I believe the Camera Store's review video and at least one other reputable reviewer has posted some examples of what I'm talking about.
Let me clarify, I am, in general a fan of in camera NR...especially when recording to a H264...because if you don't do it in a controlled way, the codec is going to do it in an uncontrolled way.
Also, the GH5 and S generally do a very good job at it.
BUT
It is clear that to eek out the low light performance that the GH5S delivers from a small sensor, Panasonic is doing a LOT of processing. Arguably, it's better than not having a usable image, but I think it is useful to understand that it is happening, and it does affect the image quality.
joe12south
Veteran
This. It's not a problem below ISO 1600 in my opinion, and still VERY usable at ISO 3200 (again, in my opinion) but after that it starts getting more and more aggressive, even at -5. It's not terrible looking, my guess is the noise would be unusable without it, but it's definitely strong and noticable.
jonpais
Well-known member
Presumably, in narrative filmmaking, you've got control over lighting, set design, costumes and so on, whereas in documentary filmmaking, newsgathering and events you don't. Or am I mistaken?