FS7: FS7 vs FS700 - Image quality?

[DLD]

I'm not too sure yet if I'm going to go for a O7Q or not. If I need 4K I can use my F5, but the O7Q is too big for my needs. If CD could do a 5'' O5Q it would work wonders for the FS700/FS7/A7S...

If you already have F5, you can also use Sony's own Raw recorder on both (but you'll need the interface for FS700).

 

[Arash Ayrom]

Sincerely appreciate everyone's input!

I definitely have my eye on the Ursa Mini, and I'll likely wait until that comes out before making a purchase.

If I decide the Ursa isn't for me, I do see the 700 as a viable option because:

- I'm going to buy an Odyssey 7Q+ anyway
- Mainly will use the camera in studio / controlled lighting on sticks
- Can upgrade to RAW if I need more than the 7Q+'s ProRes (love love love the RAW on my BM Pocket!)

Lastly, I'm mainly invested in Canon EF and M43 lenses, and need to work out if I can live with the Speedbooster / adaptor route vs. native E-mount.

And of course, let's see what Sony announces at the end of this week!

 

[LeoGrey]

I have yet to see anything shot with the fs7 that looks as organic as the image shot with an s700/O7Q combo, it definitely has some magic too it

 

[pythonman]

I think a lot of FS700 users jumped ship to the FS7 before the Odyssey 7Q(+) finally came into its own.

Now that the 7Q(+) can offer continuous recording in ProRes (HQ, 422 or LT) 1080p at 200/240fps, and 4K ProRes at 50/60p from the FS700, as well as burst 4K 120fps in ProRes, I no longer personally see the need to go for the FS7. Not to mention the HD recording on the 7Q+ (downsampled from the FS700 4K RAW) is pin sharp.

The S-Log2 images from the FS700 in ProRes on the 7Q+ are very gradable as far as I'm concerned.

I never have any issues with the Metabones adapters on the FS700 with all of my Canon lenses (I use the older Speedbooster and version 3 standard adapter).

I have built a very nice shoulder rig that includes an EVF and the Odyssey (with v-lock bat) on the back, that works very well ergonomically (but I'll admit is heavier than a bare-bones FS7).

The media costs of the Odyssey have now become great value. It now allows cheap Samsung 850 EVO 1TB SSDs (I have 2 of them in the Odyssey at the same time), and this works out way cheaper (per GB) than the XQD cards on the FS7, especially for long-form recording. I record in ProRes LT quite often, and the quality is great as far as I'm concerned. Plus the back-up of the AVCHD on the cheap SD card internally on the FS700 is a great fail-safe.

Don't get me wrong, if I was starting fresh I think I probably would have gone with the FS7 (possibly). But the FS700/Odyssey 7Q+ combo works a charm.

Having said all that, the new FS cam announced in 3 days things might stir things up somewhat...

 

[Martin.G]

FS700+O7Q is twice as large and cumbersome to work with rather than FS7 though.

Having sold my FS700+O7Q just 3 weeks ago, the sheer working tool feeling has made the switch totally worth it for my part. The FS7 is a much better tool, whereas the FS700 is more of a camera capturing compelling images. But its not a hard-working tool.

 

[pythonman]

FS700+O7Q is twice as large and cumbersome to work with rather than FS7 though.

Having sold my FS700+O7Q just 3 weeks ago, the sheer working tool feeling has made the switch totally worth it for my part. The FS7 is a much better tool, whereas the FS700 is more of a camera capturing compelling images. But its not a hard-working tool.

The way I see most people configure/rig the FS700/Odyssey combo I think you have a point, it can easily turn into a frankenstein arrangement. But it is possible to rig the combo pretty compact (relatively) and at works like an ENG camera - at least the way I have configured it. I use mine for promos, live events, interviews, corporate stuff - definitely a hard working tool for me! (see my pics below)

But the FS7 is a great camera, and I agree it is more compact in its bare-bones configuration. And like I said, starting new I'd probably buy it.

 

[joe/dp]

Your rig, Joanthan, looks quite workable.

I own the FS-700 and have found it to be a great camera, ergonomics aside.
I also shoot with my older EX-3 for its ability to quickly go from really wide (with a wide angle converter) to telephoto in a flash, so it's a real documentary camera.
My FS-700 excelled in shooting interviews. Tripod work.

I also have the 700 rigged for shoulder use, but never found it to be a comfortable, working arrangement. Adjusting exposure with that wheel, etc. Oy.
Just frustrated me no end. I just wanted to return to the comfort and reflexes I developed with a camcorder - no feeling around for controls, camera well balanced, just thinking about shooting and everything else under control.

And I also have the Kinotehnik EVF, just like you, and that never satisfied me as well. I think the smallHD 502 is superior but that wasn't available when I was in the market for an EVF.

So I am planning to go to the FS7 before long. I want to start edging out my EX-3, as much as I absolutely love that camera. I want to shoot 10 bit 422 and have 4K at my disposal internally.

 

[Sami2]

Just did a few shoots with the fs7 while my f55 was at repairs. I used to own an fs700 and had the sony raw interface for it.

I only shot internal 4k slog3 with fs7 henge i did not have the v-lock adapter for fs7 to enable raw. The internal 4k just looked horrible, even though i rated the camera to 1000iso there was an enourmous amount of noise and the colors were of after applying a lut. Also the menu system is pain in the butt and the feature of losing scopes when 4k output is activated is just brilliant. Also the quality of the viewfinder and the peaking is so bad that there is no way to know for sure if the 4k focus is spot on.

I have done similar shoots with fs700 using just the internal recording and the image quality with fs700 has been better, less noise and the colors are not that off. The 4k raw on fs700 is just mind blowingly good as you can see from the page posted earlier in this thread. I will test the rwa to shogun on fs700 someday for sure.

After these few horrible experiences with fs7 I will use the fs700 next time when i have a need for another camera. I would not hesitate on buying the fs700, hence if shooting 4k you will need an extra monitor for focus with fs7 so you can just get shogun and enable 4k for fs700.

Mic preamp is pretty bad on fs700, sony propably installed the same to fs7...

Kinotehnik is sweet for fs700, do not get cineroid, their eye cup is useless and they produce way too much heat.

 

[FrameFarmMedia]

The internal 4k just looked horrible, even though i rated the camera to 1000iso there was an enourmous amount of noise and the colors were of after applying a lut.

Your doing something wrong here or you have a broken camera. Myself and tons of others are having no issue getting great looking colour accurate footage out of the camera. Do you mind telling what in camera settings you were using and what lut?

 

[Martin.G]

The way I see most people configure/rig the FS700/Odyssey combo I think you have a point, it can easily turn into a frankenstein arrangement. But it is possible to rig the combo pretty compact (relatively) and at works like an ENG camera - at least the way I have configured it. I use mine for promos, live events, interviews, corporate stuff - definitely a hard working tool for me! (see my pics below)

But the FS7 is a great camera, and I agree it is more compact in its bare-bones configuration. And like I said, starting new I'd probably buy it.

Yes i rigged mine almost exactly like yours.

1. It became super heavy and cumbersome on the arms.
2. I cannot verify shots from behind. Maybe if you put through HDMI from the Odyssey that would mitigate this issue. But i used HDMI OUT from the FS700, and lost several clips during a shoot because i could not verify if the Odyssey 7Q was actually recording or not.
3. You cannot pack that rig into a backpack and hike some kilometers into the mountains. Even packing into a city bag, its still cumbersome to travel around.
4. Needs rigging time. FS7 does not. This is money and/or time saved.

But if you shoot a lot of studio/controlled enviroments, and only rarely r`n`g, FS700+Odyssey7Q is an amazing tool! But i need my camera into a backpack so i can hike around in the mountains, and the FS7 has had me realize just how much the FS700s s*%tty ergonomics has held me back. Thoughts like "nah, i cant shoot that, i need a shoulder rig first" kept me from shooting docs in the start of my business. No money for the big rig. While later, the heavy weight and size kept me from taking it for hiking trips and outdoor shoots. The FS7 however, is a different beast. Pack, hike, shoot! Amazing.

See if you can watch this.

https://www.facebook.com/187949567899233/videos/1133805466646967/

https://www.facebook.com/187949567899233/videos/1133809126646601/

This is just some freebies ive done in mere hours for an NGO i am working free for sometimes. Shot almost out of the backpack and graded with the Lutcalc LUT. The slow motion was shot after sun down, and needed to be brought up in post. Noise and that aside, its still astonishing how far cameras have come, shooting slow motion in dusk with an f/4 lens!

These may not look like much, i am still just getting to know this tool that is the FS7. But the fact that im out shooting in the mountains while the FS700+O7Q was a real hassle, makes all the difference in the world for me.

 

[abreu-canedo]

As per the title of the thread, the internal 1080p image of the FS7 is superior, due to its more robust codec. However, the FS700 has that RAW output which really makes it wonderful! Specially for the price. FS7 can output RAW, but needs extra interface for $2K.

It all depends.
You want to shoot internal HD? FS7!
You want to shoot 4K RAW, FS700! It is cheaper and really comparable to FS7...which needs interface between camera and recorder.

Its all a matter of what you need most, your shooting styles and scenarios, and your budget. If I was shooting documentaries at 1080p and small footprint was important, I would go FS7. However, if you don't mind having the monitor tucked into the side or rear of an fs700 with extra set-up time and weight, then save some money and get great images with the FS700/O7Q.

Of course, FS7 has slog3, which I don't have much experience with but everyone who uses it seems to prefer it.

That at is my regurgitation of all that has already been said in this thread so far. The best camera is the one that gets you the best image you can afford to purchase and can carry around.

 

[FrameFarmMedia]

For me the appeal of the FS7 is having a 10bit 4K internal recording with reasonably compressed intra codec. No extra wires no items to fail along the chain. I can break the camera down to its lightest form and still shoot a great internal codec or if I wanted to I can build the camera up for raw but for almost everything I do (and did with C100/300 & fs700 before ) the internal codec has proven to meet all my needs.

 

[JackCarter]

The FS700 is dog ergonomically and operationally. Literally one of the most awkward and complex cameras to shoot with that I've ever used. Even at it's bargain basement price and excellent raw image quality I couldn't recommend it to anyone.

Really surprised at your take on the FS700 Grug, I have the exact opposite feelings about the camera to you. I really like the cameras size and weight, all those assignable buttons on the side panel, spot focus, XLR port is in a nice place and out of the way, the zoom rocker with the 18-105 G lens and the simplicity of the menus. I don't feel like I have to use S-Log 2 with this camera unlike the F5 and I'm quite happy with Alister's custom PP. I really like the end trigger method of the 240fps and being able to do 120fps in a 4 second burst in 4K is a feature that only the FS700 can do. The internal AVCHD is solid, far better than I imagined it to be.

I presume RAW is even simpler on the FS700. Use an ISO of your choice and are not locked in to ISO 2000 like on the F5/55. Expose with a picture profile of your choice and Sony don't recommend using S-log2 for RAW on the FS700, which is interesting.

I feel like the FS700 is the most fun camera I have ever used and it cost me the same price as the OLED viewfinder for the F5. Very similar to the Sony 18-105 G lens, the FS700 is a love it or hate it product. The FS700 is far from perfect but the pros far outweigh the cons IMO. Perhaps I'm easily pleased :smile:

If you already have F5, you can also use Sony's own Raw recorder on both (but you'll need the interface for FS700).

Yes I think in the future it would be the way I record RAW on the FS700 even though it would be a Bazooka. O7Q is great but it's still way too big. I have been using the Samurai Blade with the FS700 and it's the perfect size and weight. If some genius could design the 7Q with the size and weight of the Samurai Blade then it would be perfect.

 

[alaskacameradude]

Really surprised at your take on the FS700 Grug, I have the exact opposite feelings about the camera to you. I really like the cameras size and weight, all those assignable buttons on the side panel, spot focus, XLR port is in a nice place and out of the way, the zoom rocker with the 18-105 G lens and the simplicity of the menus. I don't feel like I have to use S-Log 2 with this camera unlike the F5 and I'm quite happy with Alister's custom PP. I really like the end trigger method of the 240fps and being able to do 120fps in a 4 second burst in 4K is a feature that only the FS700 can do. The internal AVCHD is solid, far better than I imagined it to be.

I presume RAW is even simpler on the FS700. Use an ISO of your choice and are not locked in to ISO 2000 like on the F5/55. Expose with a picture profile of your choice and Sony don't recommend using S-log2 for RAW on the FS700, which is interesting.

I feel like the FS700 is the most fun camera I have ever used and it cost me the same price as the OLED viewfinder for the F5. Very similar to the Sony 18-105 G lens, the FS700 is a love it or hate it product. The FS700 is far from perfect but the pros far outweigh the cons IMO. Perhaps I'm easily pleased :smile:

Yes I think in the future it would be the way I record RAW on the FS700 even though it would be a Bazooka. O7Q is great but it's still way too big. I have been using the Samurai Blade with the FS700 and it's the perfect size and weight. If some genius could design the 7Q with the size and weight of the Samurai Blade then it would be perfect.

Yup, me too. Everyone complains about it's ergonomics, or 'too many buttons'. I sometimes
wonder if many of them were DSLR shooters, because I personally LIKE lots of buttons,
as opposed to having to do everything in 'the menus'. It's not any worse than any other
'non shoulder mount' camcorder....and the ability to remove stuff, change the handgrip
angle and so on, actually make it better than many camcorders which sit
'perched on your wrist'.

There are a few of us who have been hounding Mitch about building a Odyssey '5q'.....
as in a smaller version of the 7Q for run and gun shooting. The camera is no longer as
popular as it once was, so I'm not sure if the demand is there....although if they made it
like the 7Q so that it would work on many other cameras, I would think some DSLR shooters
might like a nice, small package of monitor and recorder.......

 

[DLD]

... If some genius could design the 7Q with the size and weight of the Samurai Blade then it would be perfect.

There are 5" 4K recorder/monitors out there but they don't record 4K out of FS700.

Now, I happen to think that there are more smaller form (4"-5") 4K and 4KRaw recorder/monitors on their way but everyone is pretty tight lipped about them.

 

[Donny 123]

Its a flat box with a tube out the back.. is that really your idea of a good camera design.. do you just take it out of the bag and throw it on your shoulder all ready to shoot.. I think the Sony guys who designed this monstrosity hang at the same bar as the Canon C300 guys.. and they try to design the worst ever camera as a bet..

 

[alaskacameradude]

Its a flat box with a tube out the back.. is that really your idea of a good camera design.. do you just take it out of the bag and throw it on your shoulder all ready to shoot.. I think the Sony guys who designed this monstrosity hang at the same bar as the Canon C300 guys.. and they try to design the worst ever camera as a bet..

Well let's take a look at other large sensor video cameras.
AF100. Sits on your wrist, can't throw it on your shoulder
without a rig. C300? Same thing. F3? Check. C100?
Check. Black Magic Cinema cam? You must be joking.
A Red Epic? Gotta rig it up too. It's not until you get
to an Alexa or the new Panasonic Varicam that you have
a nice shouldermount. Well the Sony F5/55 if you buy
the optional shouldermount would be pretty good as well.
But on the less expensive end, the Sony FS7 was so
popular, at least in part because it was the first one
that was actually ergonomic (unless you count the EA50
which is basically a NX5 chip in a shouldermount body.).
So I'm not really sure what people in this price range are
shooting with that is so much better. And the FS5, is
again, back to the 'perch on your wrist' form factor.
At least it will be light I guess........

 

[JackCarter]

Its a flat box with a tube out the back.. is that really your idea of a good camera design.. do you just take it out of the bag and throw it on your shoulder all ready to shoot.. I think the Sony guys who designed this monstrosity hang at the same bar as the Canon C300 guys.. and they try to design the worst ever camera as a bet..

The F5/55 is a flat box but is not persecuted like the FS700. I don't know what this obsession is with cameras being on the shoulder. If your shooting news then buy a camera that is designed for ENG work. The F5/55/FS700 is designed for shooting cinematic images which means being on a tripod, crane or dolly IMO. Hand held looks like dog sh*t and who wants to film that way? I think the guys who designed this monstrosity deserve a pat on the back. The camera is not full of quirks or bugs, with ND filters that work and has a simple and useful menu system. It didn't take 7+ firmware updates to get the FS700 to work.

 

[IronFilm]

There are 5" 4K recorder/monitors out there but they don't record 4K out of FS700.

Now, I happen to think that there are more smaller form (4"-5") 4K and 4KRaw recorder/monitors on their way but everyone is pretty tight lipped about them.

Video Devices PIX-E5 doesn't?

 

[stokstad]

Hand held looks like dog sh*t and who wants to film that way?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFguF3gf-vU