FS7: FS7 vs FS700 - Image quality?

Arash Ayrom

Arash Ayrom

Cataclysmo
Hello,

Given the new price drop on the FS700, it's tempting to pick one up for half the cost of the FS7:

Ignoring (very important) things like ergonomics, memory card prices, etc., and just judging image quality in the best possible light, e.g., log out to external recorder, does the FS700 come close to the FS7?

- Is the dynamic range close?

- What about low-light capabilities?

- Rolling shutter?

Would love to hear especially from those who shot on the 700 and then moved to the 7.

(I did search for this, but didn't find clear answers.)

Thanks!
 
it's comparing apple and oranges.
To come close to the image quality of the FS7 you will need the 7Q/7Q+ for the FS700.
 
Hi,

Yes, I mentioned “best scenario" recording to an external recorder. I know the internal recording of the 700 is inferior to XAVC in the 7.

So if going to ProRes or RAW, what do you think?

Thanks!
 
URSA Mini 4K (not shipping yet) is $2,995 with internal ProRes 444 and it only weighs 5 lbs.

If you want to shoot 4K with FS700, it's ~ $2,000-$2,300 more for the external recorder/monitor.
 
Recording the raw feed (and only the raw feed, whether you record it raw or in prores) out to the O7Q, the IQ is for all intents and purposes identical.

But the FS700 is dog ergonomically and operationally. Literally one of the most awkward and complex cameras to shoot with that I've ever used. Even at it's bargain basement price and excellent raw image quality I couldn't recommend it to anyone.

And while I'm not a fan of the 'broadcast' style setup of the FS7, it is an IMMENSELY better camera to operate. And well worth the higher pricepoint.
 
Grug said:
Recording the raw feed (and only the raw feed, whether you record it raw or in prores) out to the O7Q, the IQ is for all intents and purposes identical.
Click to expand...
Really? Such a tiny difference?
FS7 has one stop (or more?) of dynamic range? Not making that much difference? Colour science? Makes no difference in raw?
Let's say the camera bodies were identical, would you then feel that the image quality wasn't worth upgrading for?

But the FS700 is dog ergonomically and operationally. Literally one of the most awkward and complex cameras to shoot with that I've ever used. Even at it's bargain basement price and excellent raw image quality I couldn't recommend it to anyone.
Click to expand...
I don't find it that bad. Would love to have one or two programmable buttons on the handle, but that's about it.
Guess it all depends on what you shoot and how. Not arguing that the FS7 isn't better, just saying I don't find the FS700 to be that bad for what I do at least.
 
Yeah, I dunno. The FS700 gets a lot of 'rips' and I'm not saying the FS7 isn't way better
ergonomically but I don't find the FS700 as bad as it's cracked up to be. On sticks its
great, and as bad as people will tell you that it is handheld, I shot an entire reality show
as 'A' cam op with the stock FS700. Not any worse than any other camcorder that you
have to hold 'perched on your wrist' instead of on your shoulder. I think image is great,
but you certainly don't get the 10 bit 'goodness' and post flexibility unless you get the
7Q. At which point you may start to have some ergonomic challenges. I'm trying to
petition CD to make a smaller version of the 7Q but that ship may have sailed.
 
Don't they use the same sensor? A S35 size CMOS sensor with 11.6 total megapixels, 8.9mp used for 4K and 8.3mp used for UHD, with a native 2000ISO, 14 stops of DR and maximum frame rate of 240p 2K and output an identical 12bit RAW signal.

Perhaps the specs are just similar, but they look the same to me based on the specs, probably just never ''announced'' by Sony that the FS700 shares the same sensor as the FS7, especially since it's said the fs7 has the F5 sensor. They're great sensors anyway, among the highest-end images.

Anyhow even if it's that case, the ability to record 4K XAVC to an internal card is worth the extra. But people have different needs, for example if one needs to shoot RAW the FS700 Raw package is much less money than an FS7 Raw package, and the FS700 has the one advantage of being able to shoot 120p 4K in bursts so if you need that it,s the only option.

Everything else the FS7 is better, just the ability to put it on your shoulder out of the box and record great looking 4K XAVC is HUGE. The FS700, it's a whole different matter to record 4K on your shoulder!
 
hoju said:
Hi,

Yes, I mentioned “best scenario" recording to an external recorder. I know the internal recording of the 700 is inferior to XAVC in the 7.

So if going to ProRes or RAW, what do you think?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

There is no way to record these images out of the box with the FS700/7Q unless C-D comes with burn in LUTS. My history with 7Q is a history of waiting. Waiting for the so called popular codec, waiting for 4K ProRes, waiting for a proper colors without the green/magenta cast in skin tones (solved in FW2015.05), waiting for LUTs and now for burn in LUTs. It took one and a half year to get there, one and a half year with a load of batteries for the 7Q, with a huge amount of raw files on my hard drive.
I am really happy about the FS7. I have great images out of the box, I have a wide choice from custom to CineEI, I have three batteries which get me over the day. 1 stop of dynamic range more or less? I don't care about it :-) Rolling shutter? If you have time to detect it your story is probably boring. Period.
 
FS700 raw to 7Q is almost (but not quite in my opinion) on a par with FS7 internal but not as good in low light etc.

FS7 Raw at 4k is another story.
 
Ben Scott said:
No. The FS7 uses the sensor from the F5.
Click to expand...


I'm thought the FS700 uses the same sensor as the PMW-F5? Just like the FS100 used the F3 sensor.

http://www.provideocoalition.com/stunning-fs700-raw-performance-really-impressive

I just bought a FS700R brand new last week because the price is unbelievable (very near the same as used prices). Compared to the F5 the FS700 does feel more like a Sony Handycam, but that is not a bad thing. Menus are simple, all those buttons on the side are great, it weighs nothing. If your going with the internal codec then the cost of recordings in near nothing. If you already own an external recorder then you are going to get better images for grading than the internal AVCHD. The FS700's internal AVCHD is really good and I dislike the codec on all the other cameras I've used.

I'm not too sure yet if I'm going to go for a O7Q or not. If I need 4K I can use my F5, but the O7Q is too big for my needs. If CD could do a 5'' O5Q it would work wonders for the FS700/FS7/A7S.

As for the posters original question. I think all these cameras have great images but it's up to you to get the best out of them.
 
If I recall correctly one of the big selling points of the FS7 was that it had the F5 sensor, as opposed to the FS700. Might be wrong though.
 
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Clermond said:
There is no way to record these images out of the box with the FS700/7Q unless C-D comes with burn in LUTS. My history with 7Q is a history of waiting. Waiting for the so called popular codec, waiting for 4K ProRes, waiting for a proper colors without the green/magenta cast in skin tones (solved in FW2015.05), waiting for LUTs and now for burn in LUTs. It took one and a half year to get there, one and a half year with a load of batteries for the 7Q, with a huge amount of raw files on my hard drive.
I am really happy about the FS7. I have great images out of the box, I have a wide choice from custom to CineEI, I have three batteries which get me over the day. 1 stop of dynamic range more or less? I don't care about it :-) Rolling shutter? If you have time to detect it your story is probably boring. Period.
Click to expand...

I have two odyssey 7qs. My friends now have them. Everyone is getting them. The thing can do raw 4k dpx out of it - programmable luts, great OLED display - you want to know the history of waiting - it's waiting for every product. The odyssey 7q can do 240 FPS out of the fs700 - that enough makes it with the low price of the unit probably on par with the fs7 or fs1 but at a much lower cost. I like the motion cadence of overcranked footage on the fs700 vs f7 better - less noise. I need to do some tests.
 
Ben Scott said:
If I recall correctly one of the big selling points of the FS7 was that it had the F5 sensor, as opposed to the FS700. Might be wrong though.
Click to expand...

all three (F5, FS700, FS7) share the same sensor. Sure the internal processing is slightly different, so there are some minute differences there, but if you're taking the raw feed from the FS700, the IQ looks to be about as close to identical as two distinct cameras could be.
 
Grug said:
all three (F5, FS700, FS7) share the same sensor. Sure the internal processing is slightly different, so there are some minute differences there, but if you're taking the raw feed from the FS700, the IQ looks to be about as close to identical as two distinct cameras could be.
Click to expand...


Ah okay they may well do, apologies. Not sure where I got that from. But I absolutely do not find their outputs identical. Had an FS7 and FS700 going into 7Qs side by side a few times.
 
My understanding has always been that the F5/FS700/FS7 all share the same sensor, but have distinctly different processing behind it.

To the original question about image - you'll find the FS700 lacks some color science options available on the F5 and FS7. Some shooters place more importance on this, others less. The bottom line is you have more color science choices on the F5 and FS7 - how much that matters to individual shooters is a different matter. The FS700 also has the most simplistic image resolution processing of the three cameras. It's 1080p doesn't process the 4k sensor the same way the F5 or FS7 do. You'll get a sharper picture on the F5 or FS7.
 
My last faith based feature "The Good Book" was shot on the FS700. While none of these are major festivals, it did get a few awards, including Best Cinematography, listed below.. I shot in AVCHD and found it lacking in ability to grade. So I used the in camera settings to get it close to what I wanted.

With the current feature "Providence" I used the FS7. Mainly for re framing ability, I shot in 4K XAVC-I. The 4K and more robust codec proved to be invaluable. The final file, converted to Prores, is rendering out as we speak, a 24 hour process. I found the dynamic range of the FS7 to be considerably better than the FS700 and it saved my bacon a few times.



awards.jpg

Winner "Staff Choice" The Narrow Way Film Festival 2015 Winner "Best Film" AFA Truth Awards 2015 Winner "Best Cinematography" AFA Truth Awards 2015 Winner "Pastor's Choice" AFA Truth Awards 2015 Winner "Best Musical Score" AFA Truth Awards 2015 "Short List Film" UK Christian Film Festival 2015 "Official Selection" Great Lakes Christian Film Festival 2015 "Official Selection" Film-Com 2015 "Finalist" Florida Movie Festival 2015 Winner "Most Inspirational Feature Film" International Christian Film Festival 2015 Finalist "Best Actress" International Christian Film Festival 2015 Winner "Clu Gulager's Best Actor's Ensemble in a Feature" BareBones International Film Festival 2015 Finalist "Best Christian Film" Bare Bones International Film Festival 2015 Finalist "Best Family Feature" Bare Bones International Film Festival 2015 Finalist "Best Director" The Aletheia Fellowship of the Arts Feature Film Awards 2015 Finalist "Best Actor" The Aletheia Fellowship of the Arts Feature Film Awards 2015 Finalist "Best Actress" The Aletheia Fellowship of the Arts Feature Film Awards 2015 Finalist "Best Supporting Actor" The Aletheia Fellowship of the Arts Feature Film Awards 2015 Finalist "Best Supporting Actress" The Aletheia Fellowship of the Arts Feature Film Awards 2015 Finalist "Best Breakout Performance" The Aletheia Fellowship of the Arts Feature Film Awards 2015 Finalist "Best Film Editing" The Aletheia Fellowship of the Arts Feature Film Awards 2015 "Official Selection" The Narrow Way Film Festival 2015 "Film Innovation Award" Churches Making Movies 2014 Stellae Award Nominee "Best Mission Film" Pan Pacific Film Festival 2014 Winner "Best Feature" GloryReelz Christian Film Festival 2014 Winner "Best Female Director" GloryReelz Christian Film Festival 2014 Winner "Best Inspirational Film" Holywood Christian Film Festival of New York 2014 "Official Selection" Louisville International Film Festival 2014 "Official Selection" Pocono Mountains Film Festival 2014 "Official Selection" I Will Tell International Film Festival 2014 "Runner Up Faith Film" Mount Dora Family Film Festival 2014 "Special Presentation" Churches Making Movies Film Festival 2014 "Official Selection" Bedias, Texas Christian Film Festival 2014 "Official Selection" Kingdomwood Christian Film Festival 2014 "Featured Presentation" Christian Film Festival Indianapolis 2014 "Official Selection" Faith and Family Films 2014 "Official Selection" International Christian Film Festival 2014 Finalist "Best Romance" Bare Bones International Film Festival 2013 Winner "Best Actress" Bare Bones International Film Festival 2013 Finalist "Best Family Feature" Bare Bones International Film Festival 2013 "Official Selection" GloryReelz Christian Film Festival 2013 "Official Selection" International Christian Film Festival 2013​
 
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