FS7: FS7 jitter on tripod

A

Alan Dater

Member
I am starting a new thread specifically about the issue of camera shake/jitter using the FS7 on a tripod.
I have been stymied with image shake with my camera tripod configuration ever since I got the FS7 mark 1. Even the slightest touch on the tripod handle or lens will result in image jitter. I use the Vinten Series 10 with 2 stage carbon fiber legs which is rated at 30 lbs. I know it is almost thirty years old, but it seems as good as ever. Wth the 18-110 I see shake and forget it with the sigma 150-600 hands must be off camera/ tripod completely at the long end...not very convenient. I normally use the Sony VCT plate attached to the head. But even eliminating the VCT and just attaching the camera directly to the head still does not make any difference. I have used this tripod/head with a Betacam rig and long lenses and with an Aaton and never had any problem with vibration/shake . For some reason the FS7 seems prone to it. I have tried shims on the plate to camera to make it completely solid but nothing seems to help. I would welcome any suggestions of how fix this problem.
Thanks Alan Dater
 
First, read through the "Long Lens Image Stabilization " thread.
Then, analyze where the 'jitter' is coming from.
Often, older tripods will develop the slightest bit of 'play' through time and wear. I see it in many older Sachtler heads where specific tensions don't click in perfectly any more. I don't know whether this happens with the Vintens as well.
Analyze all the places that can move. Put your tripod head on a high hat with a bunch of sandbags and check that. If there's no jitter then there may be some looseness in the legs (usually where they attach to the ball.) And of course try it on a heavy tripod to see if that fixes the problem.
With any kind of long lens you would presumably be using a rod support system. Make sure that's solid. And of course use a good follow focus system and keep your hands off the lens.
Since there are only 20 or 30+ places that shake can get introduced into the system I'd suggest using a methodical approach to find the weak spot(s) in your system. In most cases you'll find more than one 'weak spot' - so be methodical!
 
the FS7 is IMO flawed in having such a small contact area with the base.

I think the vocas thing might also attach on the two M4/5 screws that take the shoulder pad.

If I were designing accesories (I do design some, just not this one..) I would make a rear Vock device that went right to the 'floor level' and have more screws there to attach to a long plate.

If I were using it as a C cam built specifically for a long lens I would use the camera upside down and go into the 6 1/4 threads in the 'top'

I have considered using my FS7 upside down since the day it arrived but decided that 'All SMMs footage needs flipping' would make me a freak too far.

The next weakness in my chain is the touch and go plate that goes into my miller 25

Ive also thought of re engineering my miller head to exclude that part and just bolt on a ronford plate or something.
 
Just a thought. Just in case you have missed it make sure the FS7's Steadyshot is OFF when on a tripod. Forget what the switch says on the 18-110 as the lens switch will have no bearing on the Steadyshot setting at all. The switch only functions on the A7 series from memory. On the FS7 you have to turn Steadyshot ON or OFF via the menus. You can assign Steadyshot to one of the assignable buttons if you wish. The camera doesn't like Steadyshot on when on a tripod. Like you I'm using a Vinten but without the issues you are having. Even when using a 22 x B4 with an MTF Super16 adapter. With the 1.32 x crop factor that introduces it works out at 29 x and I can still manage jitter free shots with that. I've never used Steadyshot as I've just been used to like you living with Betacams and XDCam 2/3" cams that never had lens stabilization. If the Steadyshot thing isn't the issue then yes you may have a mechanical issue somewhere in your camera/tripod mounting setup as someone suggested.

Chris Young
 
Jitter and large sensor cameras goes hand in hand. It's one of the reasons we so many stabilised lenses these days, particularly the more 'affordable' cameras like the FS7 with their lightweight bodies. I get OK results with my Sigma 150-600mm if the balance is nailed on and I've got lots of accessories attached to the camera adding weight.
 
True Liam. I guess I should qualify what I said. Sure I get a little wobble from a long lens setup and its only a really solid 150mm bowl or above with a solid mount between camera and tripod can calm that sort of movement down. I was thinking more along the lines of the high frequency jitter I've seen in some OIS systems if they are not working correctly or are feeding back on themselves. Like the following examples:

Quote "If you mount the camera on a tripod (or similar stable platform) without cutting the IS, you risk creating what’s called a feedback loop, in which the camera’s IS system essentially detects its own vibrations and starts moving around, even when the rest of the camera is completely still. This introduces motion objects to your camera system and brings with it blurriness. This is one of the key reasons to turn off image stabilization." More on image degradation on the following links:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explor...ge-stabilization-when-use-it-and-when-turn-it

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/270064-does-ois-degrade-a-bit-ig/

Chris Young
 
cyvideo said:
This is one of the key reasons to turn off image stabilization."
Click to expand...

Another reason is because you get what I call the "rubber band" effect. This is where you purposely move the camera to follow action, and the camera resists that motion at first, and tries to cancel it out until it realizes you must be moving the camera on purpose, and then snaps forward to catch back up to your movement. That looks sloppy and makes the operator look worse at following action than he really is.
 
It does depend on the lens. Some lenses are unusable on a tripod with stabilisation, others have custom modes designed for tripod use.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Could you name some of those lenses? Anything over 500mm?
Click to expand...

The lens mentioned in this thread, Sigma 150-600mm has intelligent OS which takes into account panning. It doesn't have the 'delay' that my 70-200mm used to have. You still need a serious tripod though.
 
Liam. Is that working with the MC-11 adapter for E-Mount? If so I guess you are using an EF version with the MC-11? Next question how are all the lens functions working from the FS7 body? You say stabilization is working okay but how are other functions such as the iris iris and focus working? Focus not so important but the iris, can that be adjusted from the roller wheel on the body or the hand grip if the iris is programed to the rotary wheel.

Doug I guess one option to use the Sigma 150-600 on the F55 would be the Metabones Canon EF to Sony FZ T CINE Smart Adapter.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/co..._wcB&is=REG&lsft=BI:514&pcur=ZAUD&sku=1190615

Chris Young
 
I've used it with both MC-11 and Metabones. I should caution, heavily caution, the image stabilisation is quite minimal. It takes out the trembles, and doesn't get confused and 'jump' like my Canon 70-200 does, but you still need lens support and decent pod. Not sure I'd recommend it for Doug, knowing what he shoots. If I have time later this week I'll post some examples.
 
Can anyone comment on how the length of the pan handle can effect shake during operating? I've always the handle as long as possible on my O'Connor. I'm thinking having that much leverage might actually be a detriment to operating. ie: a little too easy to move the head. Making the handle shorter might actually add a bit more stability/resistance to movement. Any thoughts?
 
I'm not sure if the length makes a difference or not, but I will say that when I need to be very, very smooth doing some small panning I usually grasp the head itself. And I do prefer a very short handle. The one on my 1030D is okay, but the handles on my FSB-10 and FSB-6 are way too long by several inches. I have not been able to find shorter handles that are compatible. I bought a couple I thought might work but now they are gathering dust. Anyone know of handles for those heads that will fit for sure?
 
Doug Jensen said:
I'm not sure if the length makes a difference or not, but I will say that when I need to be very, very smooth doing some small panning I usually grasp the head itself. And I do prefer a very short handle. The one on my 1030D is okay, but the handles on my FSB-10 and FSB-6 are way too long by several inches. I have not been able to find shorter handles that are compatible. I bought a couple I thought might work but now they are gathering dust. Anyone know of handles for those heads that will fit for sure?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't the telescopic pan bars from the 18/20p series work.. or is the rosette different.. also hate long pan bars.. dont know how anyone can work like that..
 
That's the problem right there. The rosettes are different on different models and, as far as I can see, there is no way to determine in advance which heads will work with which handles. For example, the FSB-10 comes with a model "Pan bar DV 75" and you can even purchase that pan bar separately at B&H https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1028452-REG/sachtler_0992sp_dv75_pan_bar_for.html But there are no specifications given for the rosette, so how can I shop for an alternative unless I physically have them in my hands to test? Who makes a shorter pan bar with that rosette? I thought about cutting the handle in half but the rubber grip can't be moved and I don't want a hacked off pipe.
 
I did with a Sachtler Tripod, chopped off a few inches and I bought a steering handle in a bycicle shop. That fitted well.
 
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