FS7: FS7 and Amira side by side
- Thread starter Gene Sung
- Start date
This is the best description of the Sony look yet. Exactly what I always got from the F3. It can be made better in post but it takes A LOT of work.
As far as I can tell the FS7 follows this too. I've only had it for a week now but so far yes.
I bought a FS7 and I agree with you. I wouldn't have said it that way, but you're spot on.
starcentral
Veteran
Gene send me some DPX frames of both and I can see how after correcting the FS7 if its any closer. 
Grug
Veteran
Clearly a lot of people struggle with grading Sony footage (or at least have done prior to the arrival of SGamut3.Cine). And I'll grant you that A7S skintones often turn plastic, but I'd wager that's primarily down to people spreading SLOG2 across a mere 8-bit container and overexposing their footage on purpose.
But I just can't agree that Sony skintones are a problem, since I'm getting consistently great results shoot after shoot. And lately I've been doing nothing much more than applying the LC709A LUT in Resolve and tweaking contrast curves a little. These screengrabs below have no secondary colour correction, nothing fancy whatsoever, just LC709 and contrast curves:
Duke M.
Veteran
Grug, those look fantastic. What settings were you using? Slog3? EI?
Clearly a lot of people struggle with grading Sony footage (or at least have done prior to the arrival of SGamut3.Cine). And I'll grant you that A7S skintones often turn plastic, but I'd wager that's primarily down to people spreading SLOG2 across a mere 8-bit container and overexposing their footage on purpose.
But I just can't agree that Sony skintones are a problem, since I'm getting consistently great results shoot after shoot. And lately I've been doing nothing much more than applying the LC709A LUT in Resolve and tweaking contrast curves a little. These screengrabs below have no secondary colour correction, nothing fancy whatsoever, just LC709 and contrast curves:
Hi Ryan, here's a screen shot without the LUT applied. I just tried to match levels and saturation to the Arri Rec709 LUT. It looks pretty similar IMO. Nate Weaver did mention the Alexa just skews green a little bit. For me, it's not really an issue as a huge majority of images need to have some tweak in post. I've been grading images professionally for network TV for almost 15 years now and about 99.9% of all images have at least a minor tweak.
Edit: Also Ryan, this test was shot at Noon on a bright sunny day which tends to bring out the worst in any camera.
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Grug
Veteran
CineEI Mode, SLOG3 and SGamut3.Cine (the most important part of the puzzle). I'm still on v4 firmware, so no noise reduction on these ones.
starcentral
Veteran
And great lighting and good exposure of course. Let's not forget how important those are.
nice work Mark!
+1. I'm with Grug on this one.
I've been very happy with what I've been getting with CineEI either alone or with LC709a. These are just straight out of the camera, no color grading, just added or subtracted a little brightness. I have noticed that LC709a does tend to bring out magenta in certain areas, so if I were to color grade these images, I would probably take a little red out. At least for myself, coming from S-Log2 and the FS700, the skin tones are a considerable improvement over that camera with CineEI.
But like I said in the last thread, I've been grading images professionally for network TV for 15 years (tens of thousands of shots) and I can think of maybe just a very few times (and I might be imaging those few times) where a shot went to air without some type of minor tweak. Every shot needs post of some sort.
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Ryan Patrick O'Hara
Veteran
Wait, are you saying the left image is CC'd by you and the other is LogC LUT from resolve?
Either way, yes everything always needs something.... I have just been shocked how when we preview the image in an Amira with the internally applied 709 LUT (in camera) it looks different than the 'Arri (Alexa) Resolve' 709 LUT.
Just an observation on my end.
hi Ryan,
Actually, there is no CC (color correction) on the image without the LUT (left image was adjusted by me). It's just the native colors of the Amira.
There has been an adjustment on levels and added saturation on the flat LogC image to match the Rec 709 image interms of contrast and saturation, but no colors were changed.
I think the Amira image is the same as the Alexa. Arri advertises the Amira as having an identical image to the Alexa I believe. Either way, still a great image. Might be a little green on some shots, but just take a little out and you're golden.
Actually, there is no CC (color correction) on the image without the LUT (left image was adjusted by me). It's just the native colors of the Amira.
There has been an adjustment on levels and added saturation on the flat LogC image to match the Rec 709 image interms of contrast and saturation, but no colors were changed.
I think the Amira image is the same as the Alexa. Arri advertises the Amira as having an identical image to the Alexa I believe. Either way, still a great image. Might be a little green on some shots, but just take a little out and you're golden.
Grug
Veteran
And great lighting and good exposure of course. Let's not forget how important those are.
nice work Mark!
What? You mean the cameras don't do those things for us?!
eddavid
Carbonite Member
The whole campaign of "Sony Skintones looks like crap" has been going on since the f900 vs Panasonic Varicam days - back before log recording.
I find Slog 1 and slog3 with sgamut3.cine and sgamut to look really damn good right off the bat.
Canon log - skintones to me look great.
Red log gamma - again skintones look great in daylight lighting - get a little funky in tungsten lighting.
but yes it's good lighting and good exposure.
A7S skintones - I've found using the CINEMA or PRO setting to give the best skintones easily.
anyway the worst things I've found with Canon C300 and C500 is highlight handling - same with the red epic mx and red one mx - you can't overexpose without the highlights looking as crappy as say the af100 or the hvx200 highlight handling - the dark ages of digital cinema on a budget.
The Amira stuff I've seen does have this orange feel.
At first I thought the sony f55 ftg looked bad - including stuff I shot on it but then I started to watch Nate Weaver's and Grugs work on it and I was so impressed I started using it.
The FS7 and Amira are in their infancy - I'm sure once more people like you guys work with it, test it, and color it, we'll see what the cameras are possible of.
And I, who used to hate the look of Red footage, find that dragoncolor and redloggamma graded well can look so incredible.
The Age of Adeline trailer I saw, shot with dragon and anamorphic glass looked so good to me.
Some stuff shot on alexa like that film "The Canyons" was some of the worst looking footage I've ever seen. Same with "They Came Together" and that guy I think shot "Wet Hot American Summer" which looks incredible.
so it doesn't matter what camera it is, it's going to either look like **** or good, depending on lighting, lenses, and grade, and exposure of the image and the talent of the DP.
I find Slog 1 and slog3 with sgamut3.cine and sgamut to look really damn good right off the bat.
Canon log - skintones to me look great.
Red log gamma - again skintones look great in daylight lighting - get a little funky in tungsten lighting.
but yes it's good lighting and good exposure.
A7S skintones - I've found using the CINEMA or PRO setting to give the best skintones easily.
anyway the worst things I've found with Canon C300 and C500 is highlight handling - same with the red epic mx and red one mx - you can't overexpose without the highlights looking as crappy as say the af100 or the hvx200 highlight handling - the dark ages of digital cinema on a budget.
The Amira stuff I've seen does have this orange feel.
At first I thought the sony f55 ftg looked bad - including stuff I shot on it but then I started to watch Nate Weaver's and Grugs work on it and I was so impressed I started using it.
The FS7 and Amira are in their infancy - I'm sure once more people like you guys work with it, test it, and color it, we'll see what the cameras are possible of.
And I, who used to hate the look of Red footage, find that dragoncolor and redloggamma graded well can look so incredible.
The Age of Adeline trailer I saw, shot with dragon and anamorphic glass looked so good to me.
Some stuff shot on alexa like that film "The Canyons" was some of the worst looking footage I've ever seen. Same with "They Came Together" and that guy I think shot "Wet Hot American Summer" which looks incredible.
so it doesn't matter what camera it is, it's going to either look like **** or good, depending on lighting, lenses, and grade, and exposure of the image and the talent of the DP.
Grug, those frames do look great, but they tell more about you than about the camera. I'm sure any camera you would have used would look just as great. It's your skills.
But there are hints of the Sony look in there and it doesn't take anything away from them.
Did anybody try playing with the Cine+709 LUT for the fs7 either burnt in or applied afterwards? It's a bit too contrasty, and quite warm, but it does have a nice feel to it I find. Would like to try and tweek it.. I have my camara but not yet any cards
. I too find the LC-709TypeA lut a bit too magenta..
. I too find the LC-709TypeA lut a bit too magenta..