FS100 looks so video-ish

Dermot said:
*I find it really helps to avoid 709 gamma in post, using "linear light" in 709, or just bite the bullet and go with P3 if you have the monitors and calibtrated enviroment to support that.

d
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Can you elaborate on this statement? Thanks.
 
danstone said:
A great example of the "videoish" feel is Sony's "ballerina" sample footage. Another great example comparing 5D and FS100 footage is a local Harley Davidson commercial I found on Vimeo. You can tell right away which shots are which (and it has nothing to do with shallow depth of field).

Frank,
I have to say... yours are the most cinematic I've seen. Well done! Are you using a custom picture profile? I saw that you're using Samyang glass and I wonder how much difference that makes. I have a set of Red Pro Primes but don't want to drop another grand on an E-to-PL lens mount. Ugh.

Thanks so much for your help!

Dan
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Has to do with the color grade. With the Harley Commercial I believe he was using a FS100 and a 5D. You potentially you could be commenting on the 5D ;p

From my point of view the term "filmic" is describing the image capture -> processing aspect of a camera. With that definition the FS100 has a "filmic" look because of the color latitude you are getting.

Then it is up to the post-editor/director to apply the necessary grade to give it a "filmic" (definition 2) look in post. AND if you use a 422 external recorder then the video capture part will look even more "filmic" as it will allow you to do more color grading in post.
 
I'd also imagine that alot of the videos he has seen that "dont look filmic" were shot with the kit lens. True the motion from a CMOS sensor isn't going to look identical to a film negative, but a nice lens, and some care with lighting and framing will get you close.
 
It could also be the long-GOP nature of AVCHD. Over at the Personal Views site (GH2 hacking) they have pretty much come to the conclusion that the longer the GOP, the more video-like the image becomes, regardless of frame-rate. In fact, it's more noticeable with 24p because you're expecting a "sticatto" motion, but the long GOP footage renders the motion in a weird way. Some people have comparied it to looking like Flash animation where part of the video stream is moving like normal footage... but then the backgrounds stay still, or parts of the image "slide" instead instead of actually "refreshing" like they should for a authentic film-feel. I'd go check out the thread over there, it's interesting... and I totally see the difference between long 12 GOP stuff and the hacked 3 GOP or lower. Makes me only want to shoot with Mjpeg codecs or AVC-Intra now... Have you tried an external recorder? Internally recorded footage from the AF-100 looks very video like... but the stuff I've seen externally recorded had much more film-like motion. They were also using Ziess CP primes with it, so I dunno, could just be the lensing... the Lumix lenses look terribly video-like, IMO.

I'd say try some Canon or Nikon glass with an external INTRA-frame recording... and if it still looks like video, it's probably just the sensor.
 
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Sure, most dedicated gradeing systems, and some highend finshing systems allow one to choose color models for a project in one form or another, i have had best resualts with FS100 footage by using linear, not the gamma that 709 calls for.

I do most of my work in LOG anyway, and use tools that are built to respond correctly with that color model, so it's a bit easier for me.. but i understand that Preimere Pro allows this - and calls it "Linear Light"... my understanding is that FCP, Smoke & Media Composer only work in 709, i've not a clue about Vegas or anything elsei

If you can test it, it's worth a few min... use AbleCine's technicolor settings, and if you can use it the 3D lut on Technicolor's site to unfold it to display on a 709 monitor

Won't work if you are working in a 709 color model tho, as the clip is getting a 709 LUT applied on injest, and then a second LUT applied to create a very contrasty and saturated image

P3 is the standard for DCI mastering, and needs a monitor that can show a wider gamut than 709, and a room that has 0.04 LUX Bg illumination ( from memory)
 
Can you use 5DtoRGB to transcode your FS100 files, that way you might be able to bypass using the 709?
 
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I guess it gets pretty subjective, but I have seen many things that look videoish on the FS100, af100 and even film, and the same can be said the other way around. I guess it just depends on what look you're going for?

Does this look videoish to you?

rooftopcuwinst.jpg
 
Just to be clear, is this thread dealing with images that don't look like film? Or don't look cinematic? There is a big difference.
 
It's about it looking video-ish

It is still a digitally processed image for $5000 that look's amazing. Put the camera in the right hands and it will look superb, put it in the hands of a dummy and it will look bad, simple really.
 
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My initial thought was that the FS100 (and AF100, and even the F3) look video-ish as well. But that really comes down to a couple of things:

1) The extra detail that the 5D muddies out that the proper video cameras don't have as much of an issue with,

and

2) The operator. If you light and shoot a scene like a video, it's going to look like video, even if it's film. And vice versa. I have seen "cinematic" shots from the FS100 et al and I have seen video-looking shots. It's up to the person behind the camera; these cameras certainly have enough technical capability to capture a nice shot.
 
Okay, here is some stuff I did with the FS100.

Can`t say if it looks cinematic to you, but I think it´s fair to say, that it does not look very videoish.

Frank

Feier.Still001.jpgSequence-01.Still001.jpgFFM1.jpgFFM2.jpgProgramm.Still003.jpg
 
That looks really great Frank. How was the grade treated? Desaturation of highlights? did you crush the whites a touch and curve them at the top end?
 
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