FS100 looks so video-ish

D

danstone

Active member
Hey guys,

Just wanted to get some thoughts from the ones of you that own the FS100.

We just bought one and can NOT get it to look cinematic! Compared to the 5D and the AF100 it just looks so video-ish (and I'm not talking about shallow depth of field - there's plenty of that). It lacks that "filmic" feel that the other cameras have. We can't put our finger on exactly what it is -- the crispness of the image or just the color handling of the processor - or something completely different.

We've tried picture profiles and turning the detail all the way down. Before we send it back I thought I'd ask you guys to see if you've had similar results. Anything you've tried that helps?

Thanks!
Dan
 
It seems to me that there's no reason why why the 5D would look more "filmic" over the FS100 that is not operator error.
 
A great example of the "videoish" feel is Sony's "ballerina" sample footage. Another great example comparing 5D and FS100 footage is a local Harley Davidson commercial I found on Vimeo. You can tell right away which shots are which (and it has nothing to do with shallow depth of field).

Frank,
I have to say... yours are the most cinematic I've seen. Well done! Are you using a custom picture profile? I saw that you're using Samyang glass and I wonder how much difference that makes. I have a set of Red Pro Primes but don't want to drop another grand on an E-to-PL lens mount. Ugh.

Thanks so much for your help!

Dan
 
Yeah, it´s somewhere in the custom PP thread...

wait a minute...


here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...ure-Profiles&p=2412585&viewfull=1#post2412585

The PL mount adapter is 299 bucks: http://photo-adapter-llc.amazonwebs...src=froogle&utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=froogle

Some folks don´t like Kipon, but it works great for me.

I also think this one is most cinematic. Some blown highlights, and crappy Vimeo transcoding, but never the less cinematic in my book.
And I don´t think. that it is because of the anamorphic lens.


Frank
 
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I agree that some videos have looks disappointingly video. But after buying and using the FS100 i think a lot of those 'videoy vidoes' are a reflection of using the kit lens and the color grading. Not that this working draft of a video is genius, but I found the FS100 to be every bit as easy to get a 'cinematic' look as a Canon DSLR...

 
I think what you are seeing is a huge increase in detail over the 5D. The lack of line skipping, etc. is giving you a much higher resolution image. If you are running and gunning, it will have more of a video look than the 5D. On the opposite end, I have a friend that still shoots on a DVX100 with a homemade 35mm adapter. So low res but so filmic. You can't make it look like video no matter what you do.

The answer is to compose, light, and move the camera in a cinematic fashion. Frank's video above is beautiful and filmic. However, I guarantee, if you shot the same scenes along side him, but hand held the camera, and didn't quite get the same composition as him, it wouldn't hold up.

BTW, I thought the same thing the first time I used the RED. Coming from a HVX200/Redrock M2 setup, the RED looked like cheap video to me.
 
AbleCine's TechLook works for me

To qualify; my day job when i'm not making indie films is gradeing fairly highend stuff; Alexa, Epic, 16 & 35 Film and pretty much nothing else, features and national comercials.

I'm super happy with where i am with the FS, but i do have pretty solid color tools and pipeline to play with on the weekends and evenings, and decades of playtime under my belt ( and i own the faclilty).

I find it really helps to avoid 709 gamma in post, using "linear light" in 709, or just bite the bullet and go with P3 if you have the monitors and calibtrated enviroment to support that.

But to return the camera due to not being able to make it work?

I'd revist my post workflow and find the weak link, then fix it

d
 
Imo you can not over expose film - it just cant really happen

Sure you can over expose it till the emulsion is white

but its entirely acceptable for instance a window to be 10 stops over when using film

You cant do this IMO with an FS, or and AF , more so with a 5d

Additionally with a 5d you can afford a 20 2.8 which give a wide FOV and a narrow DOF

Thats not a look you can get on S35 without a 10k cine prime eg 18T2 .. which are used on films .. but not by 99.9% of FS100 users

Mainly I think it is roll off that is not filmic

I think the FS outdoes all other sub $10k camera in other departments however and is IMO a great tool for the money

S
 
danstone said:
We just bought one and can NOT get it to look cinematic! Compared to the 5D and the AF100 it just looks so video-ish
Click to expand...

Hi Dan,

Can you provide some screen grabs of what you are seeing with your FS-100 and some examples of what you would like to achieve with your camera ?

I suspect your problem may be with your process and not the actual camera itself. From my experience the footage from almost any camera can be made to look "cinematic" with the right production process.
 
Hey guys,

Thanks SO MUCH for all of your help! This is really awesome! And Frank, thanks so much for posting those links. I'm going to try your picture profile and that PL mount.

I think some of you have hit the nail on the head - it's the high resolution and that kit lens. Here's a great example: http://www.vimeo.com/27096493 (borrowed this clip from Vimeo but it's representative of the results we're getting). Notice the contrast between the first shot (stock footage shot on film) and the rest.

Good composition, good lighting, good movement - yet it looks like it was shot with a 2/3" video broadcast camcorder and a Pro35 -- not anything close to film.

Here's another explanation (for the sake of the conversation): we shoot on film a lot and I love how forgiving it is in the sense that, with film, if you need more light on someone's face, you simply throw a Kino up and the exposure goes up on the face. With video (including the FS100), you throw a Kino up and it looks like you threw a Kino up. Put a hair light up and it looks like you put a hair light up. When we bought our RED One, we had to learn to light more carefully. For example, with film we would blast a 6K HMI through a window and it would look like daylight. With video, it looked exactly like what it was: a big light blasting through a window - not natural.

You know how, when you watch the 'behind the scenes' feature on a DVD, they start with an actual clip of the movie and then switch to the behind the scenes camera that shows the same scene? It looks way different. That's an exaggerated example of what I'm seeing with the FS100. It's more than depth of field and 24p; it's something about the way the sensor sees the image that I just can't put my finger on.

By the way, love the comment about the DVX100!

Anyway, I'll try some things and report back.

Thanks again, everyone!
 
Hey Dan,

Looking at the example you posted, I think the "video-ish" look stems from a combination of: no grain in the video shots, high color saturation, and narrower exposure latitude ( especially with over-exposed hilights )

All of this can be corrected in post, but you`re going to have to cook up your own "recipe" that will give you what you want. ( i.e. Add film-like-grain, desaturate and grade your image, light very carefully to keep things within the tighter exposure range that prosumer video cameras have to live with )

Also, being an 8-bit camera has a definite effect on how it renders your shots. ( 10-bit means going with a smaller sensor 10-bit ENG camera, or something like a F3 or RED )
 
danstone said:
It's more than depth of field and 24p; it's something about the way the sensor sees the image that I just can't put my finger on.

!
Click to expand...

I know what you are talking about - it´s very subtitle.
It´s hard to describe, but if you seen it once, you see it all the time.

I believe that this is a CMOS sensor thing and has to do with motion rendering, you not gonna see it on a - let´s say - HVX200 or DVX.


Funny thing, slowing down the material - even if it is only a few percent (like from 30p to 24p) takes out the videoish.

Frank
 
Postmaster said:
I know what you are talking about - it´s very subtitle.
It´s hard to describe, but if you seen it once, you see it all the time.

I believe that this is a CMOS sensor thing and has to do with motion rendering, you not gonna see it on a - let´s say - HVX200 or DVX.


Funny thing, slowing down the material - even if it is only a few percent (like from 30p to 24p) takes out the videoish.

Frank
Click to expand...

Ok, but the OP said that the AF100 DID look 'cinematic' and the FS100 did not. I believe they both have CMOS sensors and both shoot 24p.
I guess everyone has their own opinions on this though. I personally like the way the FS100 handles 'highlight rolloff' BETTER than the AF100,
which makes it look MORE 'like film' to my eyes, but neither one is great in that aspect. Still, I think that either one is perfectly capable
of giving a 'cinematic' look. But honestly, you probably want to shoot 'flat' and use Magic Bullet or Color and make the 'look' in post.
That will give you more dynamic range to play with....and that is one area these cameras are not up to film standards, so you want as much
dynamic range to play with as possible.
 
Kyle McConaghy said:
I agree that some videos have looks disappointingly video. But after buying and using the FS100 i think a lot of those 'videoy vidoes' are a reflection of using the kit lens and the color grading. Not that this working draft of a video is genius, but I found the FS100 to be every bit as easy to get a 'cinematic' look as a Canon DSLR...

Click to expand...

it was a great video, nice colors and looks film like in some shots
 
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Postmaster said:
Yeah, it´s somewhere in the custom PP thread...

wait a minute...


here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...ure-Profiles&p=2412585&viewfull=1#post2412585

The PL mount adapter is 299 bucks: http://photo-adapter-llc.amazonwebs...src=froogle&utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=froogle

Some folks don´t like Kipon, but it works great for me.

I also think this one is most cinematic. Some blown highlights, and crappy Vimeo transcoding, but never the less cinematic in my book.
And I don´t think. that it is because of the anamorphic lens.


Frank
Click to expand...

Really liked this video.... Those slow push in/out shots in the bathroom were excellent as well as the neutral colors. Overall A+ job Thank You for for Inspiration
 
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