Forget about fllm & broadcast for a moment...

steventimothy

steventimothy

Well-known member
Having used this camera a bit now, and seeing a lot of it on the internet, I think the primary use of this camera is not being discussed enough.

For corporate work, local/regional commercials, wedding & event videography and similar work, I think the 7D is a revolution. I'm a broken record on this, but Canon is going to sell a gillion of them to every single person in this area.

What does every corporate video company want to hear when they show their work to their client? It's, "holy ****, that's unbelievable!" Simple as that. The 7D produces that wow factor for the client. How about, "Looks fantastic, don't change a thing! Here's my cheque." That's what the 7D (or 5D) gives.

The clients have never seen anything like it and it blows them away. I've worked on, and seen, a million corporate videos. And, they're, umm... nice & all, but... image wise, average. Sorry, but yes. Even average crap shot on Vimeo with the 7D look fresh. Now, with the possibility of incredible glass, and dof / focus control, it's a brave new world.

Clients (in that segment) don't care about pixels and details on leaves! When you see an amazing long shot or ultra-wide , or crushed dof on a corporate video, it's a revelation. Look at the quality of Canon glass you can stick on this thing.

There's some good money in the film rental market, but the 7D is going to crush in the corporate / event / etc. market. I'm afraid that's probably about 90 % of total production. Why would you get something else when you can make your cilents ooh and ahh? It's an absolute no-brainer.
 
steventimothy said:
There's some good money in the film rental market, but the 7D is going to crush in the corporate / event / etc. market. I'm afraid that's probably about 90 % of total production. Why would you get something else when you can make your cilents ooh and ahh? It's an absolute no-brainer.
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Well, before you walk TOO far down the line, I am in the corporate market by day. The 5D/7D still have some MAJOR drawbacks for this market.

1. The 12 minute record time. If you're filming the bride coming up the aisle, and get into the vows, the LAST thing you want to see is that 12minute counter creeping up past 11 minutes. And if you are recording corporate functions, conferences, and PSAs like I do, having to stop every 12 minutes can be a royal pain.

2. Overheating issues. This can creep up as an issue even outside of the 12 minute limit. And it's no small problem.

3. The need to do separate sound. As a corporate shooter I sometimes cannot do separate audio. I do it whenever I can, but sometimes I really do need to run REAL audio back to the camera. And the 5D/7D audio is poor.

4. Monitoring. When I record conferences I often need to get the camera above the crowd. With the LCD on my EX1 or DVX I can flip it down to verify recording, battery life, media status, etc. Unless you go to a separate monitor on the DSLRs, you aren't going to be able to see any of this.

5. Single card. One of the great benefits of the dual slots for me in the EX1 is the ability to keep recording while I swap cards in and out. No such luck on the DSLRs.


I'm not saying that they can't get great results, but they are certainly not a cure all.
 
i concur with the thread initiator.
not being all that interested in storytelling myself, i couldn't have said it better to express how these little dslrs have opened major creative avenues and multiple revenue streams as soon as putting them to good use where they'd really shine...
 
Perrone beat me to it. I agree with most of what the OP said, but for events? I used to do a lot of events, conventions, things like that, and the 5D/7D would be pretty much the most unsuitable camera on the market for those jobs.
 
PerroneFord said:
Well, before you walk TOO far down the line, I am in the corporate market by day. The 5D/7D still have some MAJOR drawbacks for this market.

1. The 12 minute record time. If you're filming the bride coming up the aisle, and get into the vows, the LAST thing you want to see is that 12minute counter creeping up past 11 minutes. And if you are recording corporate functions, conferences, and PSAs like I do, having to stop every 12 minutes can be a royal pain.

2. Overheating issues. This can creep up as an issue even outside of the 12 minute limit. And it's no small problem.

3. The need to do separate sound. As a corporate shooter I sometimes cannot do separate audio. I do it whenever I can, but sometimes I really do need to run REAL audio back to the camera. And the 5D/7D audio is poor.

4. Monitoring. When I record conferences I often need to get the camera above the crowd. With the LCD on my EX1 or DVX I can flip it down to verify recording, battery life, media status, etc. Unless you go to a separate monitor on the DSLRs, you aren't going to be able to see any of this.

5. Single card. One of the great benefits of the dual slots for me in the EX1 is the ability to keep recording while I swap cards in and out. No such luck on the DSLRs.


I'm not saying that they can't get great results, but they are certainly not a cure all.
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OK, fair enough. 1) For lockdown shots, having a camera that can do pretty is irrelevent, (because tight DOF, long lenses, good glass is not that important.) If you're a one man band and using the 7d to get the ceremony, you'll probably have multiple cameras (every wedding photographer i've ever seen has more than one DSLR). You use whatever average video cam for lockdown, and the 7D for amazing B-Cam. 2) is irrelevent because it's ridiculous to use it as a lock-down cam, you start and stop the camera for exciting B-cam.

3) There's a legit audio option for the 7D, you buy that, use it, it's cheap. It's not as simple to operate as if it was built in, but it has as good or better quality than anything else, just got to be on the ball. Not that hard.

4) Use the 7D for conferences? Wrong market for it. Interviews, ceremonies, conferences, lock-down. The 7D? Wrong camera. Why? Why do you need amazing glass and focus control for that? It's stupid. If it's your ONLY camera, then you are correct, it's not good to go. So again I stand corrected. You can use the most mundane HD consumer-cam for that. You're focussed on one thing, usually with no background.

5) Single card? again, if not locked down, who cares? you're only using the 7D to create amazing cut-in shots. Even me, the wildcam freak, has never shot for more than about 2 minutes. There's 128 GB now, so I don't give a f***. I can shoot for the next month with that.

Le morale? If you're shooting more than about 5 minutes (that would be locked down), you need a video camera. Everything else, along with an external audio recorder, you can do with the 7d.
 
This was your comment:

For corporate work, local/regional commercials, wedding & event videography and similar work, I think the 7D is a revolution.
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You said NOTHING about using it as a B-Camera. When I shoot events, or corporate, I am the ONLY cam. Would I love to have a 7D running around getting B-roll, you bet. But the fact is, for corporate, interview, and event, the camera is going to be locked down. I'm not sure how much of this work you're doing, or in what environment, but I've been shooting this stuff for nearly 10 years, most of that alone. I light, do camera, do sound, edit, and finish all my own work.

So I'm not trying to be negative here, but I just don't get where you're coming from.
 
Again, Barry, for lockdown shots you are correct. I said corporate/event and that's a big part so I am talking there out of my a** there. I would hope that it's intuitively obvious that an exciting new product such as the 7d is not for that.

Do you need a 400 mm f 2.8 lens for some guy on a stage? Do you need an f 1.2 piece of glass which has created Pulitzer prize shots to create a shift-like super tight focus for a 40 minute interview? Well it's possible, but probably not. If your subject blinks, his eyelash might go out of focus, so clearly not.

But if you send your camera guy out and say, "get some streeters with the museum in the background", which camera do you think will produce a more client pleasing result, the 7d or the HVX? Slap a 14-28 mm lens on there, come on. I don't think it's a contest.
 
steventimothy said:
But if you send your camera guy out and say, "get some streeters with the museum in the background", which camera do you think will produce a more client pleasing result, the 7d or the HVX? Slap a 14-28 mm lens on there, come on. I don't think it's a contest.
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Well true... but how does this fit into corporate/event/wedding that you mentioned in your initial post?

And running multiple cams at a wedding is no guarantee that you can just stop one and change media. You had better be in communication with the other cam-op(s) to make sure they are still rolling.
 
I did a 3 1/2 hour theater production on the 7D up in the HOT balcony and... yeah you guessed. Lot's o' cool down time needed.
Not the right tool for long-form, but the things I did get looked DAMN good. It handles the extreme contrast of theater lighting like no other camera I've used.
 
PerroneFord said:
This was your comment:



You said NOTHING about using it as a B-Camera. When I shoot events, or corporate, I am the ONLY cam. Would I love to have a 7D running around getting B-roll, you bet. But the fact is, for corporate, interview, and event, the camera is going to be locked down. I'm not sure how much of this work you're doing, or in what environment, but I've been shooting this stuff for nearly 10 years, most of that alone. I light, do camera, do sound, edit, and finish all my own work.

So I'm not trying to be negative here, but I just don't get where you're coming from.
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I think you can still use it to create amazing interviews, as well, if required. It requires some intelligence as well, of course, and perhaps a discussion with your subject. 12 minutes is still pretty good.

It's not a lock-down camera. Fugetaboutit. Not my intention to imply that. You have to talk to your interviewee and explain the amazing results you're going to get, and the adaptations you'll have to do, and shoot accordingly. I promise you, that when Canon sells 100,000 of these cameras in a year, any issues and limitations will vanish, because that's a lot of cash, and they'll see they writing on the wall and the cameras will change for the market.

Where I'm coming from is: I don't know the percentage for long lock-down, but I agree it's not suitable for that. For everything else, for the patient videographer who's willing to learn it to a tee, it's a client's wet dream.
 
PerroneFord said:
1. The 12 minute record time. If you're filming the bride coming up the aisle, and get into the vows, the LAST thing you want to see is that 12minute counter creeping up past 11 minutes. And if you are recording corporate functions, conferences, and PSAs like I do, having to stop every 12 minutes can be a royal pain.

2. Overheating issues. This can creep up as an issue even outside of the 12 minute limit. And it's no small problem.
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I'm going to buy a electronic stopwatch that will alert me after 11 minutes, assuming the D7 doesn't beep when it's near 12 minutes?

And to deal with the overheating I will drill some small holes in the housing. I only shoot indoors so rain won't be an issue.
 
steventimothy said:
The clients have never seen anything like it and it blows them away.
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I am reading Steve Hullfish's book about digital color correction. He writes something like... that your clients will not get impressed by good editing etc, but that they will be impressed by a beautiful image. Bad cam, properly graded in post = good. Very good cam, not well graded = bad. Good cam, well graded = very good.
 
Without knocking anyone in this thread, Perrone and Barry, you have a massive amount of patience and are very good at making your points without coming off the wrong way.

I am envious of your abilities.
 
PerroneFord said:
Well true... but how does this fit into corporate/event/wedding that you mentioned in your initial post?

And running multiple cams at a wedding is no guarantee that you can just stop one and change media. You had better be in communication with the other cam-op(s) to make sure they are still rolling.
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Dam, you guys are tough! I'm speaking from a (professional) editor's point of view, and as an amateur cameraman.

OK, if you're a one-man band shooting a wedding, and the 7D stops, you're screwwwed.

You might want to keep your video shooting to 3-4 minutes and below in that case and then reset. Plan accordingly. If the 7D is that unreliable, I take everything back. But so far for me, no problemo. Again, I say, if it's really not reliable, stops, fails, deletes media, overheats regularly, then it's a NON-STARTER! PERIOD. I'm assuming it's not ridiculous. If that's the case, I'm a moron and I hate Canon for making me a retard.

But most corporate videos I work on, have interviews consisting of NO MORE than about 3-4 minutes. Gosh, if the subject goes on that long, that's amazing. If the interviewER pipes up, shut the f****** camera off! Gawd almighty.

I've been an editor a long time and it's the b-cam (what a stupid phrase; it's the interviews that are the Z-cam) that's important. What amazing footage you can get with the 7D. You can go to a rodeo and sit in the stands with a 7D and your 70-200 lens at 60 fps and create gold. Your client will kiss your a**. Sorry, but I've worked footage over to create beauty and watch them cream if you do something great. The 7D just does it; it doesn't need me..

Sorry-but lock-down is irrelevent. Use a f***** web-cam. It's irrelevent.
 
RieniO said:
I am reading Steve Hullfish's book about digital color correction. He writes something like... that your clients will not get impressed by good editing etc, but that they will be impressed by a beautiful image. Bad cam, properly graded in post = good. Very good cam, not well graded = bad. Good cam, well graded = very good.
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Wow, don't know quite what to say there. I think:

Content ALWAYS overrules everything. If you have a STRONG image, well composed, with artistic intent, it can be shot with a super-consumer piece of crap and it will blow an F35 away (I think). Technology is irrelevent. Grading is irrelevent.

Talent is everthing. Intent is everything. Technology is nothing. Grading (or whatever) is nothing. I can regrade your piece of crap and it's still crap. You can give me strong content, super weak technically, and it still works. Give me a technically amazing super piece of crap, and it's still treacle.

Hasn't changed since whenever. Never will, since the Dagueretype.

200x150 pixels with talent will blow away 2000 x 1500 sans. Deal.
 
Did you drink a lot of Redbull's today? :-)

You started about image quality, right? So talent, intent, etc is not relevant here, technology is. And I wasn't trying to contradict you, you reminded me of what Steve writes and it comes down to the same thing: client impressed by beatiful image.

Salut!
 
No offense, I think this sounds far fetched, coming from someone who's been kneedeep in dslr muck since the D90. Although I started off like this, gradually I came to learn the reality of these cameras and that doesn't match up with what you're saying.

Even now I'm shooting with two 7Ds and a 5D and both 7Ds have Had an overheating issue today. Good thing I was prepared with backup solutions...

While the optimistic and energetic thoughts are great for inspiration, and Ive run two cameras and an H4N succesfully by myself just as you're pitching, the reality in a working environment (at least where I'm at) is that these are a massive compromise and everyones nail biting the entire time, waiting for the process to ruin something.

It's a compromise made because of money, not because it helps anywhere but in that case.
 
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