Ford GT demo with jello and aliasing

J

_JD_

Well-known member
I'm a bit concerned with the performance of my 7d. I love the stills coming out of the camera, but in this first project with the camera, I think I've detected a large amount of jello and aliasing.

I'm hoping I didn't get a "bad" example of the camera.

Interview footage is from my Panasonic HMC150. All other video besides the black 911 is from the 7d.

The shots were all handheld and much of the bad look is attributable to hand shake, but some of the effect appears to be from the camera. I converted the 7d footage to Prores 422. The footage looked very similar prior to conversion. This is edited on FCP7. HMC150 footage is shot in 24p and the 7d material is in 30p. Lens used on the 7d was a Tokina 11-16 2.8.

Jello is apparent in the interior shot while the car is stationary. You can see aliasing in the pan from down the side of the car to the rear wheel and the "dolly" across the front bonnet.

Am I overreacting? Is this normal and simply the result of bad handheld technique and panning too fast?

Any comments are appreciated. This is still a rough edit.

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I AGREE
 
I don't own a 7D, so I can't give you an exact comparison, but I'd say in 99% of the cases where people post asking if they got a 'bad camera' it's not, it's just some of the weaknesses in these HDSLRs.
 
Kellar42 said:
I don't own a 7D, so I can't give you an exact comparison, but I'd say in 99% of the cases where people post asking if they got a 'bad camera' it's not, it's just some of the weaknesses in these HDSLRs.
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I'm guessing it's operator error as well, but my limited experience with the camera necessitates my asking.
 
Handholding with no form of IS will net you bad bad bad results. It's just how these cams work. Toss it on a shoulder brace, tripod, dolly, whatever you can, just no handheld unless you're a rifle marksman and can control shake and breathing and pulse like a sniper can. In a pinch I've even used a flash bracket turned sideways and braced against my shoulder and the shots were phenomenally better.
 
NoxNoctus said:
Handholding with no form of IS will net you bad bad bad results. It's just how these cams work. Toss it on a shoulder brace, tripod, dolly, whatever you can, just no handheld unless you're a rifle marksman and can control shake and breathing and pulse like a sniper can. In a pinch I've even used a flash bracket turned sideways and braced against my shoulder and the shots were phenomenally better.
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Great info- thanks. I "knew" this, but obviously I didn't KNOW this. I do now.

BTW- FCP Smoothcam looks horrific on 7d footage- at least it did with this material.
 
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After effects is a much better tool for tracking motion and applying corrections to fix imperfections, but it isn't a silver bullet. You're still gonna have to crop into the original footage and upscale it.

For the aliasing you could have gone with a softer focus for areas you know would have been prone to the effect, but if you didn't know prior to shooting there is little you could have done to make sure it wasn't there in the final material. If you're shooting stuff for web release, a little bit of sharpness wont be missed, especially since it gets scaled down and messed around with at the codec stage by the hosting anyway.
 
Agreed. AE's motion stabilization does a great job. Andrew Kramer's VideoCopilot.net has a great tutorial on using it and also making it look natural. It's one of his first vids, I highly suggest it. Best methods are still physical, especially as you get higher power zoom lenses, in which case most often involves locking down on a heavy duty fluid head tripod


and yeah I'm not gonna lie, pretty damn jealous you got to ride shotgun in a GT
 
My freind this is nothing more that camera man error if you are getting a lock down shot than do just that lock it down into a tripod... if doing handheld keep the cam in tight to your body... I have shot a few vids with my 7D and have even done driving shots while sitting in the back of a truck at 70mph with the cam on a Kessler Crane getting shots of cars racing and had minimal issues with "jello-ing"
 
_JD_ said:
but in this first project with the camera, I think I've detected a large amount of jello and aliasing.

I'm hoping I didn't get a "bad" example of the camera.
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It's nearly impossible to do any sort of qualitative comparison or review based off Youtube video. But I'll tell you what I see in this, and you can look in the original footage and see if it's there. And nothing I'm seeing looks any different than I would expect any 7D (or 5D or GH1) to look like:

00:00 - 00:15 - bad aliasing in the right taillight. Could probably have been avoided with a tripod (well, the aliasing would still be there, but a tripod shot wouldn't have called attention to it; motion reveals aliasing's downside)

01:00 - 01:11 - jello city. I would never try to get this shot on a CMOS camera, next time bring the 150 for this.

01:12 - 01:17 - bad jello. You could get this shot with a CMOS camera on a glidecam, but it's the handheld that did you in this time.

1:20 - 1:22 - aliasing in the vents, and jello. It's very difficult to get a handheld shot like this with an SLR - the SLR form factor is simply *horrible* for getting that type of handheld shot -- the wrist lets too much wiggle/jiggle happen. If you want to get that type of shot you really need some sort of rig like a Spider Brace.

1:35 - 1:42 - you said there's aliasing here, but I don't really see it in the youtube. I see lots of jello though; again, if you want a smooth shot you need some sort of stabilizer. You could get away with a shot like this on a CCD camcorder like the 150 if you held it by the top handle, but the CMOS plus the awkward form factor of an SLR doesn't lend itself to getting this type of shot. Also, if you want to try to get shots like these without the proper support gear, at the bare minimum make sure the optical image stabilizer is on; it can probably help tame the jello in a case like this.

2:07 - 2:12 -
2:41 - 2:45 -
2:55 - 2:58 - bad jello from handheld. Can't do this without a rig or a glidecam/merlin or something like that, especially on a CMOS camera.

So -- in short, I don't see that your camera is in any way defective, the things I'm seeing in this video are exactly what I would expect any 5D, 7D, or GH1 would have caused. Some of the things can be avoided by operator technique, others you just can't expect good results from a CMOS camcorder in those circumstances (like the handheld cockpit driving shots...)
 
Perry Wilson- thanks for the feedback.

Barry Green- Thanks for taking the time to respond. I'm glad to know this is operator error. At least that's theoretically fixable.:)

Looks like a Glidecam will be my next investment.
 
Wow beautiful car. Shame about the handheld in the car itself... gotta do some motion tracking and hope the res still looks good, actually it probably will, wasn't a ton of range in your shake.
 
....and try to calm yourself down . I shot some footage with a 50mm and it was nowhere as shaky, which will cause some more yellow, as yours.

.....enjoyed the the vid though.
 
If anything, I would've chosen the HMC150 for any b-roll shots, and the 7D for the interview. In my opinion you would've been able to produce a higher-end looking interview with shallower depth of field having used the 7D for that setup and then used the really wide angle lens of the 150 for some creative and dynamic shots of the car.

Unless you are going to shoot more cu's at faster apertures, using the 7D for b-roll would not be your best choice. The bare minimum, you need a lens like the EF-S 15-85mm IS to get some useable handheld shots.
 
KeithAndrews.TV said:
If anything, I would've chosen the HMC150 for any b-roll shots, and the 7D for the interview. In my opinion you would've been able to produce a higher-end looking interview with shallower depth of field having used the 7D for that setup and then used the really wide angle lens of the 150 for some creative and dynamic shots of the car.
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+1

I think that would have been the better way to employ the cameras available. I can see using the HMC150 for the interview though because of the 7D's primitive audio capabilities, so I can see how one would arrive at that choice... but heck, I'd be tempted to use the 7D for the interview shot and have the 150 recording audio separately. :)
 
Barry_Green said:
+1

I'd be tempted to use the 7D for the interview shot and have the 150 recording audio separately. :)
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Funny you should say that. I used that exact setup for a few CEO interviews just last week. Boom into channel 1 and wireless lav into channel 2. Not the most pretty dual system setup, but it works!
 
I think for every shot you cant do here, theres three alternative shots that could work.

True the 150 would have done some of these shots better, but you are not limited to these shots. Just my 2c, if a shot sucks straight up I go for an alternative.

Also wondering why the dialogue is only on the left channel?
 
Noel- I had a Rode shotgun going into channel 1- I left out the onboard mic in that edit.
 
KeithAndrews.TV said:
If anything, I would've chosen the HMC150 for any b-roll shots, and the 7D for the interview. In my opinion you would've been able to produce a higher-end looking interview with shallower depth of field having used the 7D for that setup and then used the really wide angle lens of the 150 for some creative and dynamic shots of the car.

Unless you are going to shoot more cu's at faster apertures, using the 7D for b-roll would not be your best choice. The bare minimum, you need a lens like the EF-S 15-85mm IS to get some useable handheld shots.
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I used the 150 because of the audio situation. I could have and should have used the 150 for audio and the 7d for my A camera- I still might try it if I can get it set up again.
 
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