First shoot with HVX?

Actually, this is probably because DVCPROHD works at 960x720, while the HD100 images you linked to are at the 1280x720 HD format size. DVCPROHD images need to be stretched(up-rezzed) from 960x720 to 1280x720.

Likewise with DVCPROHD 1080P material, it is recorded at 1440x1080, and needs to be stretched to 1920x1080.
 
khmuse said:
It can not be after as this is a digital process that can not be applied to an analog signal.
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khmuse, You totally misread my post. I was implying that the analog signal for the component video output is sampled before any image type compressions such as DVCPRO which is output to firewire or P2.

I believe the digital signal takes two paths, one to the analog outputs via D/A, the other to the codec compression selectable formats.

Disregarding all this guess work, all I was stating was I believe that the analog outputs will not have image compression such as DCT.
 
Stevet said:
khmuse, You totally misread my post. I was implying that the analog signal for the component video output is sampled before any image type compressions such as DVCPRO which is output to firewire or P2.

I believe the digital signal takes two paths, one to the analog outputs via D/A, the other to the codec compression selectable formats.

Disregarding all this guess work, all I was stating was I believe that the analog outputs will not have image compression such as DCT.
Click to expand...

Stevet,

Sorry if I didn't understand your post, but I was under the impression that you are suggesting that the analog video outputs of HVX may be free from the compression effects made necessary by the format. However, if the HVX is configured in a manner similarly to the DVX, then the analog component outputs will be subjected to DCT compression. The fact that the HVX supports multiple formats, may necessitate a different approach, but until I see the schematics, I can't confirm this.

In the case of the DVX, the same stream that is formated for the 1394 path also is used to drive the video encoder (D->A). You could be correct if the HVX approaches this aspect of the topology differently.
An example of these types of link layer controllers (1394 to/from analog video) can be seen in this data sheet:

http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/acrobat/datasheets/PDI1394L40_2.pdf

As I indicated earlier, I will look at the DVX schematics tomorrow and confirm the exact Si involved in its analog video I/O.

The one thing that is certain, most of the speculation surrounding the HVX can be put to rest sometime in the near future assuming that the ship dates are still good.
 
I do have my fingers crossed that this will be a very good holiday season for a few of us. Last time that I checked, I was sitting at #24 on the EVS preorder list. Knowing my general luck, they will receive 23 cameras.
 
khmuse said:
Last time that I checked, I was sitting at #24 on the EVS preorder list. Knowing my general luck, they will receive 23 cameras.
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Ah, but how many won't pony up the funds when the time comes? I'd bet that if they only get 23 cameras that someone as high as 40 or 50 on the list may get a shot at getting one...

Keep thinking happy thoughts!

Regards,

Jim Arthurs
 
Jim Arthurs said:
Ah, but how many won't pony up the funds when the time comes? I'd bet that if they only get 23 cameras that someone as high as 40 or 50 on the list may get a shot at getting one...

Keep thinking happy thoughts!

Regards,

Jim Arthurs
Click to expand...


I'm hoping for as high as 56 to be exact. :) Merry Christmas to me.
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
Making statements that it shouldn't look so video or the depth of field should have been whatever ... well since you were not the DP, that wasn't or isn't your choice, that was Michael's.
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Well, I agree with you on this Jan.
Well said.
 
After working with the ReelStream output and shooting a feature on the VariCam I can say is that a cleaner key can be pulled from the dvx, I know this does not sound like it could be real, but whatever Juan is doing works.

I like everyone else here is hoping for the best, as I am ready to buy that camera ASAP, but the shot shown on the panny blog site does not look as good as I have been hoping for. It just has a plastic, "video" feel to it..I hope the sharpness etc can be changed for less of the "cheap" feel..

and I hope it can do better keys then the one posted
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
I don't think the key is that bad, in fact I think it is quite good.
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Jan, no, it is quite bad.

Jan_Crittenden said:
I find that people are always more critical of other people's work. That is real easy.
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Agreed. Since I'm giving out strong opinons, I offer my own car keying work done on a stylized shoot under a similar set of conditions for analysis and thrashing.

http://ftp.datausa.com/imageshoppe/outgoing/CAR_key.jpg
http://ftp.datausa.com/imageshoppe/outgoing/CAR_key2.jpg
http://ftp.datausa.com/imageshoppe/outgoing/CAR_key3.jpg

Jan_Crittenden said:
It is one frame grab, out of an entire 3 minute video Does the frame grab look good in the context of the video? Yes it does.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but is it the first image to show in context of the debut of the HVX? No. For that matter, is it even the best image from the entire video? I hope not.

Bottom line, it's a poor shot, poorly composited. Judging the merits of the HVX from that image is like trying to judge the CineAlta by any given final frame from the movie "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow". The debate shouldn't be about someone's skills at keying, it should be about the raw image the camera makes. Of course we want to see keying demonstrated, but give us the raw material to try on our own, not others poor efforts.

Panasonic has complete control over the footage released from this camera. You could have shown resolution charts, or fruit in bowls, or landscapes, or... Obviously you can't please everyone, but I can't imagine this pleases anyone. I'd almost rather NOT see anything and buy blind, trusting the engineering and the legacy of the DVX.

This is a harsh post, but it's not personal, or directed at the DP or anyone at Panasonic. If I make a decision that's a bad call, or do sub-par work, I'm called to the carpet on it by my clients very quickly. I'm a soon to be client of Panasonic.

Yesterday I said I didn't want to see Kaku in his backyard on the dirt bike for my first footage. Now I'm reconsidering. :)

Regards,

Jim Arthurs
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
It is one frame grab, out of an entire 3 minute video Does the frame grab look good in the context of the video? Yes it does.
Click to expand...
Sure...but never as first HVX grab.

Jim Arthurs said:
Yesterday I said I didn't want to see Kaku in his backyard on the dirt bike for my first footage. Now I'm reconsidering. :)
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I follow your POV but not even after Caporale's shot...or only if it is as comparative with Kaku's XL-H1 stuff...
 
Dudes, let's just wait for the final clip. It is just a frame out of the whole clip. So, let's not judge before seeing the whole thing.

It's really hard to judge a single frame like the one provided. I am still waiting to see the whole clip, and, when this beast goes to the hands of someone like Steve Dempsey (disjecta) or Rich Lee, then we are going to see some really nice looking footage.

Anyway, let's just wait and see.

PS: Does anyone know approximately when this camera is coming out? Man, christmas is coming and I was wondering if I could give this to myself as a christmas present. Hummmm, just kidding!
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
Hey,

I don't think the key is that bad, in fact I think it is quite good. It certainly looks better and has more detail than the second post from Obin, which from what his description said, just about anything would. The Fruit display was lovely, however. The music video has a visual style to it, that refelcts the way the DP decided it should look. I find that people are always more critical of other people's work. That is real easy. Making statements that it shouldn't look so video or the depth of field should have been whatever ... well since you were not the DP, that wasn't or isn't your choice, that was Michael's.

Michael has shot a number of things for me before and he is an excellent DP, coming from a very long background in film production, and now ownng a Varicam, a SDX900 and a DVX. He is one of trainers in the HD Expo VariCamp and is the author of the scene files for the SDX900.

It is one frame grab, out of an entire 3 minute video and frankly Mike wanted to take on the challenge of Green Screen work and because he was familiar with the Varicam and that look, he made his decisions in 720P. I have seen it on a 20 foot screen and it looks pretty good. The individual hairs that are keyed on the blonde woman do not have any green print through. You may not care for it, but then that is personal taste. Does the frame grab look good in the context of the video? Yes it does.

As far as it going up the wrong aspect, sorry that was my fault. I sent the wrong one. Show me one person who has not made a mistake. That has now been corrected.

Thanks,

Jan
Click to expand...

Hi Jan,

Man, sometimes I am really greatful I don't have your job. This guys really can give you a hard time.

Let me just say somethings that I thnk of your answer to this crucification:

#1 Yes, it looks better than the second grab from obin, and to tell your the truth, that camera angle is very weird.

#2 I didn't like the style of the video either, but I don't see as much comments on that as I see pretty valid points about technical aspects of the image. You trying to defend the DP's work is just moot in my opinion, since I couldn't care less if the shot works in the context of the video, and you shouldn't either. You are not selling music videos you are selling cameras, and you should braga bout pixels, latitude, sensitivity and not about artistic merits, or if the mos exciting film was done using your camera or not. This is about what the HVX can do, not about how good the video is.

#3 The truth is that we can see a lot of artifacts, in the girls shouder and the car windshield frame, and in the guy's right cheek. Blocking stepping and jagging. And there IS a lot of sharpening artifacts.

BUT we are only saying this because that last one year of hype made us expect perfection. And we now have to contend with the best out there, but with it's flaws. We have to remember that it's a moving image and it is normal that it should have artifacts and not look as good on pause/still. We see that happen with our DV frames all of the time. Nobody seem to notice how great this looks comparing to what we have now (DVX, Z1, XL2) and how much of a step forward this seems to be, compared to the current DVX image.

IMHO, although with a lot of flaws, this image clearly shows us that the HVX is a hell of a promising camera, and I can be sure a lot of good films will be shot with it.

Cheers
 
Anhar Miah said:
Today’s lesson: Analogue and Digital

Analogue
A continuous signal over a given time period.
Digital
A signal composed of only two states namely "on" or 1 or "off" or 0, this convention is known as binary or Base 2 (mathematical notion).
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Well, okay then . . . can you kindly explain "monologue?"

<g>.
 
In all fairness,

Obin posted that grab to show the quality of the key, not the artistic value of the scene. I think most people here are not happy with the HVX shot because they would prefer more technically objective shots with the HVX, and the shot Obin posted technically shows how clean a key you can get with Uncompressed footage from the DVX under the specific situation of that commercial. It wasn't color corrected or processed at all except for the key.

If you would like to see a greenscreen shoot in context then check out his latest spot:
http://www.reel-stream.com/redirect.php?url=http://media.reel-stream.com/obin_1113.wmv

You still won't see any blockies, or keying problems.
 
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