GH4 First look at 24p anamorphic & V-Log on GH4

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Totally agree. there is some kind of evasiveness going on with Panasonic, its total BS...they should do their best with the GH4, if they hold back somehow, I for one will be looking elsewhere than an upgrade path to the GH5.
Thats how Canon lost users, that eventually went to Panny and Sony...it pisses users off when they smell politics and evasiveness, and they eventually lose customers that way...there is more competition than ever now in the marketplace.
Panny could perhaps consider this....NX1 has Log, A7s, BM etc...and Panny...maybe, maybe etc...its always a bit shifty.
 
Indeed.

Screw it. I'm gonna flog my GH4 and grab the Blackmagic Micro. My BMPCC, with a x0.58 Speed Booster, rips the GH4 in low-light as is. The BM Micro is the BMPCC, but with 60P and global-shutter option. Will strap my Shogun to the top of it, ENG grip on the side. I'm laughing.
 
I can't believe some of these comments.

Really you are going to get rid of arguably the most capable HDSLR right now, because V Log L doesn't exist for you today?!?! Everyone who thinks that Panasonic is being stingy doesn't understand hardware and software development at the massive corporation level.

You have to work really hard to will something (anything) into existance, there are people who will try to stop you for what seems like unjust or selfish motivations, in short turning a massive ship to do new and groundbreaking stuff is generally unrewarding to the souls brave enough to take it on.

Some folks may have had their GH4 for a year now, congratualations. I've had one too, and this process started 3 years ago for me, so I have a few insights into what is going on BTS. "Log" in one flavor or another, has been talked about since before the GH4 existed- not everything is easy to do, especially if you want to do it right. Did anyone notice the word beta being used?

Everyone who shot with a flavor of V Log L in the past month were really using something moved just slightly out of alpha phase. Basically, it didn't crash the cameras, it wasn't final then and not today.

You should be thrilled it's coming and coming soon. Panasonic could have easily said nothing and given no one anything to look at. There's a major camera company (not Panasonic) calling something "log" right now that clearly isn't, Panasonic is getting it right so that you won't have anything to complain about. And so MASSIVE studio movies (some shooting right now on the GH4) can take full advantage of a true log and have accurate color science when they get into post.
 
By the way, in 4:3 mode I know it sounded like Matt said the HDMI is "dead, " I believe that a downconverted 4:3 inside 1920x1080 is possible while internal recording. Will have to check next week.
 
Thanks for the clarity and level head Illya - as someone who has used it I am sure it is interesting fo you to see this FUD. All your posts about V-log that I have read have been really positive so I look forward to it. But this teasing, baiting by Pana is an excercise in pshycology and patience. I think that's why some may see the cup as half empty. Prepares one to be less disappointed if it doesn'thappen. Fool me once shame on you and all that etc.......
 
Illya Friedman said:
Everyone who shot with a flavor of V Log L in the past month were really using something moved just slightly out of alpha phase. Basically, it didn't crash the cameras, it wasn't final then and not today.

You should be thrilled it's coming and coming soon. Panasonic could have easily said nothing and given no one anything to look at.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarity on the subject Illya! We're a pitiful bunch of pre-schoolers!!
 
Illya Friedman said:
Really you are going to get rid of arguably the most capable HDSLR right now, because V Log L doesn't exist for you today?
Click to expand...

Illya, there's a lot of concern that Panasonic are dragging their feet with the V-log release, and some suspicion that it may never get released for the GH4 camera.

Panasonic could go a long way in easing our fears and frustration by simply making an official statement that says "We are finishing the GH4 V-log firmware update, and expect to have it out to you by late Spring".

There is also some underlying anger directed at Panasonic for still having no AF200 plan in the works. It's been 4 years and still we have no AF100 upgrade, while Sony has released the FS100 ---> FS700 ---> FS7 line of cameras over the same time period. I honestly don't know what's wrong with Panasonic management that they still can't get their act together after 4 years. Really p*sses me off.
 
If you say so, Illya.

To each their own. Blackmagic is a microcosm compared to Panasonic, and they not only have LOG down-pat (and quite possibly the best peaking to go with it), but their colour-science is second only to ARRI (yes, like it or not, BM's colour-science is better than REDs). If you want to say Panasonic can't give us LOG, or couldn't have given it to us sooner, because of internal bureaucracy - well, I don't get that at all. And if that were the case, why on Earth would I want to keep supporting a company that would have such childish internal bureaucracy, when I could support a little Australian company that is giving so much whilst asking for so little?

Perhaps you're right - we don't understand software and hardware development in billion dollar corporations - you know what, I don't want to understand it. And something tells me neither do the billion dollar corporations - otherwise they'd deal with it, deal with the bureaucracy and evolve.

Whatever. My GH4 paid itself off on its first job. A year on, compared to other options on the market, I guess I've moved on.
 
Maybe the GH4 is not really a camera, but a toy which happens to work exceptionally well :)
Blackmagic are cameras, sold as cameras.

Edmund
 
Do we really need to be subjected to this constant whining about Blackmagic this, ARRI that, Sony I don't know what?

You're not happy, great.... stop crying like two year olds and move on. The GH4 still functions today the way it did yesterday and if it doesn't work for you, be an adult and figure it out for goodness sake. There's an abundance of choices out there, with all the opportunities to go and be creative. Just do it.
 
Do we have to be subjugated to age old condescending "stop crying" and "just do it" cliches?

This is a FORUM. This forum thread, SPECIFICALLY, is about V-LOG.

To use your own advice; if you don't like it, "stop crying like a two year old and move on."
 
Illya Friedman said:
I can't believe some of these comments.

Really you are going to get rid of arguably the most capable HDSLR right now, because V Log L doesn't exist for you today?!?! Everyone who thinks that Panasonic is being stingy doesn't understand hardware and software development at the massive corporation level.

You have to work really hard to will something (anything) into existance, there are people who will try to stop you for what seems like unjust or selfish motivations, in short turning a massive ship to do new and groundbreaking stuff is generally unrewarding to the souls brave enough to take it on.

Some folks may have had their GH4 for a year now, congratualations. I've had one too, and this process started 3 years ago for me, so I have a few insights into what is going on BTS. "Log" in one flavor or another, has been talked about since before the GH4 existed- not everything is easy to do, especially if you want to do it right. Did anyone notice the word beta being used?

Everyone who shot with a flavor of V Log L in the past month were really using something moved just slightly out of alpha phase. Basically, it didn't crash the cameras, it wasn't final then and not today.

You should be thrilled it's coming and coming soon. Panasonic could have easily said nothing and given no one anything to look at. There's a major camera company (not Panasonic) calling something "log" right now that clearly isn't, Panasonic is getting it right so that you won't have anything to complain about. And so MASSIVE studio movies (some shooting right now on the GH4) can take full advantage of a true log and have accurate color science when they get into post.
Click to expand...

Excellent post, thank you.
 
Like it or not BlackMagic seem to be moving at a faster pace and seem to be more in tune with the enthusiast and semi-pro market than anyone else right now...I would not have considered a BM camera ayear or so ago (ergonomics, features, reliability)
But now? I'll see what the reviews are like on their latest cameras, its very tempting tho.

Like it or not consumers are a fickle bunch and brand loyalty is becoming a thing of the past, we want the best bang for the buck...and if Panasonic dont give it...most users will go elsewhere.
If their corporation is sluggish, and its hard to push firmware through etc...then I suggest they make the camera division independent and competitive...or they will eventually become irrelevant (they are far from that now) but things can change quickly.
I simply dont buy that they take soo long to do a firmware upgrade with V-Log...I build very complex 3d content myself with callup scripts...so I have an idea what is involved and I dont buy the argument that they are simply "trying to get it right"
If Illya cant believe what he's reading here. he should try the 43 Rumours feedback on this...thats much worse.
I loved my GH2 and I still love my GH4...but.... hey if a company is more competitive...produces a better product and is on the ball...why wouldnt I switch?
 
Simon Shasha said:
Do we have to be subjugated to age old condescending "stop crying" and "just do it" cliches?

This is a FORUM. This forum thread, SPECIFICALLY, is about V-LOG.

To use your own advice; if you don't like it, "stop crying like a two year old and move on."
Click to expand...

Do we have to subjugated to 5,000,000 posts about how unhappy people are about the lack of V-log? We all heard you the first time.

Look I feel your pain. You really want this like yesterday and somehow feel jilted that you don't have it. The reality is we are only talking about this right now because Panasonic tipped their hand and was trying to be more open about what they are working on. Honestly this is exactly why companies never tell people what they are working on because it causes this level of unrest and conspiracy theories. At one point we were all very happy with the GH4 knowing very well that it didn't have V-log. Many praised it as the camera to end all cameras and now it is treated like a leper.

V-log is an experimental feature for the GH4 and the hardware/software wasn't clearly designed to handle it when the camera was built. Panasonic is clearly trying to get it to work well or else people would not have tested it. The fact that so many have tested it means that Panasonic is trying to get it to work but could be running into performance or stability issues. If Panasonic doesn't get this working perfectly, on the hardware that wasn't initially designed to do this, the same group of you will be all over this forum complaining about it. In my experience I would rather be patient and wait for a feature than deal with something that doesn't work right.

Nobody here is jilted or being done in by Panasonic. They decided to add an experimental feature to the camera and push its limits. We know about it because they wanted to test it in the real world. It may be taking longer to get it working 100% stable but in no way is Panasonic being lazy or trying to deceive anybody here. If that was the case they wouldn't even be trying to add V-log and asking professionals to test it out in the field.

Stay calm and shoot on.
 
Fair enough, Thomas.

Regardless, I'm not buying the whole "Panasonic is testing, trying hard to get it to work, experimenting, trialing, building something as complex as plasma engines for a Mars mission" argument. I guarantee that if Sony showed up to NAB with an "A7000" for $799 that had S-Log, or if Samsung released a true Log profile for its NX1, Panasonic would have been kicking and screaming about their V-Log and would have released it to the masses in a heartbeat.

It's baiting. It's marketing. They keep users hanging on, gripping their GH4's and not looking anywhere else. And you know what, that's fair enough. it works. I bet you any money that half the time, if not more, it is the companies themselves that leak info to the rumour websites - it's free marketing and goes viral, causes a stir, gets the brand talked about endlessly, for free - what more could a company want? Further, comments, forums and response generated by said leaks/rumours and so forth allow them to analyse consumer sentiment - free of charge. I'm sure someone will use the age old "tinfoil hat" cliche to counter me, but having been a camera salesmen for two-years, I've seen just how shrewd and tactical these manufacturers can be - and like I said before, that's fair enough, it's a business. Money first, art second - unless your name is Blackmagic.

And so it goes and so it goes. Whatever. Can't be bothered with this anymore to be honest. I'm getting sick of the sound of my own voice in my head as I type. V-Log, no V-Log, so be it. GH4 is a great camera as is, not gonna deny that, and I never said it wasn't a great camera to begin with - to each their own cinema. I've pre-ordered the Blackmagic Mirco. Should be good fun :)
 
I always purchase a camera for the features it has. Not for the features it might have at some point with firmware upgrades.

If they add a log profile to the GH4, then great. If they don't, I'm OK with that too.

BUT, my biggest concern is... Will the rumored firmware HDMI improvements fix the timecode and latency issues that we have when trying to incorporate the GH4 into professional scenarios???
 
Illya Friedman said:
I can't believe some of these comments.

Really you are going to get rid of arguably the most capable HDSLR right now, because V Log L doesn't exist for you today?!?! Everyone who thinks that Panasonic is being stingy doesn't understand hardware and software development at the massive corporation level.
Click to expand...

I wholeheartedly agree. I am a software engineer for a major test and measurement manufacturer, and trust me when I tell you, Panasonic did these cry babies a really big favor giving them some breadcrumbs for the things to come. Do you have any idea how many corporate layers this thing had to go through just to be able to get beta firmware in trusted shooters hands? Do you know the financial risk Panasonic faces just to get you a few demo videos of this remarkable feature?

I mean, now the competition knows without a doubt of Panasonic's intentions, and can try their best to trump them with competing features, or price reductions to make this MASSIVE update less attractive.


(Corporate hat off, C0der hat on)
We already know how many features are already available in the GH4, and the V-Log L feature ain't small. And now they have to make sure that this feature doesn't cause regressions throughout the rest of the system.
- V-Log takes processing power to do the conversion. It not just a LUT.
- Does the processing budget allow for this in very high ISO scenarios (6400) when noise is high and thus noise reduction is working harder?
- Does the proc. budget allow for this worst case when in 200Mbps HD? Now do the test again at high ISO.
- How about when a user is tethering over Wi-Fi to the Panasonic app? What about that third party tether solution?
- What do we do with focus peaking in a scene with such low contrast?
- What do we do with zebras in such low contrast scenes?
- What do we do with focus in such low contrast scenes?
- Oh, and don't break any of the other $hit that already works!

This is just what I can think of off the top of my head. So stop bytching and thinking that they should just release it because you want it. Hell, everyone probably wants it, and when it's ready, you'll get it.
 
estarkey7 said:
I wholeheartedly agree. I am a software engineer for a major test and measurement manufacturer, and trust me when I tell you, Panasonic did these cry babies a really big favor giving them some breadcrumbs for the things to come. Do you have any idea how many corporate layers this thing had to go through just to be able to get beta firmware in trusted shooters hands? Do you know the financial risk Panasonic faces just to get you a few demo videos of this remarkable feature?

I mean, now the competition knows without a doubt of Panasonic's intentions, and can try their best to trump them with competing features, or price reductions to make this MASSIVE update less attractive.


(Corporate hat off, C0der hat on)
We already know how many features are already available in the GH4, and the V-Log L feature ain't small. And now they have to make sure that this feature doesn't cause regressions throughout the rest of the system.
- V-Log takes processing power to do the conversion. It not just a LUT.
- Does the processing budget allow for this in very high ISO scenarios (6400) when noise is high and thus noise reduction is working harder?
- Does the proc. budget allow for this worst case when in 200Mbps HD? Now do the test again at high ISO.
- How about when a user is tethering over Wi-Fi to the Panasonic app? What about that third party tether solution?
- What do we do with focus peaking in a scene with such low contrast?
- What do we do with zebras in such low contrast scenes?
- What do we do with focus in such low contrast scenes?
- Oh, and don't break any of the other $hit that already works!

This is just what I can think of off the top of my head. So stop bytching and thinking that they should just release it because you want it. Hell, everyone probably wants it, and when it's ready, you'll get it.
Click to expand...

So it's safe to assume then that the GH4 was never meant to have Log?
 
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