First Epic Shipped

I don't know if it's going to "blow" the industry.. I mean.. if people want to shoot digital, the popular choice is RED for medium budget prods. It won't change with the EPIC / Scarlet.. instead of going RED One/MX they will go with EPIC/Scarlet.

If you want to shoot 35mm.. you'll shoot 35mm.

IMO, Epic is only a mix between RED One and HDSLR.. marketing tool to crush the market. It looks promising tho.. that's not the question.. but it won't change the way things are rolling now.
 
I actually think blanket statements like 'the film industry is about to be blown apart,' do RED a disservice because, not only are they ridiculous, they're impossible to live up to.

With the EPIC, RED will be releasing a very powerful tool for a very reasonable price. We should just leave it at that and- when it is actually done- congraulate them for a job well done.
 
EDP said:
I don't know if it's going to "blow" the industry.. I mean.. if people want to shoot digital, the popular choice is RED for medium budget prods. It won't change with the EPIC / Scarlet.. instead of going RED One/MX they will go with EPIC/Scarlet.
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Keep in mind Epic is the only digital camera close to film's quality that's also small enough to allow 3d rigs that are about equivalent in size/weight to a single film camera...a huge plus for filmmakers coming from film who are doing 3d films now. I mean already we have the new Spiderman, the Hobbit and now Ridley Scott's next movie all going with Epic...
 
Gabrobot said:
Keep in mind Epic is the only digital camera close to film's quality that's also small enough to allow 3d rigs that are about equivalent in size/weight to a single film camera...a huge plus for filmmakers coming from film who are doing 3d films now. I mean already we have the new Spiderman, the Hobbit and now Ridley Scott's next movie all going with Epic...
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Film quality is subjective, thus some will even disagree that the Epics are 'film quality'.... but I'm going to go in the opposite direction of that and say that I think the SI-2k (mini head) 3D rigs are quite lovely. I look forward to the Epics, but I wouldn't say they were a first in presenting a small 3d rig possibility with an achievable 'film look'. When I say 'film look' I mean acceptably professional. Remember the SI-2K feature 'Slumdog Millionaire' did win A.D.Mantle a Best Cinematography Academy Award! :)

Now there are things to be said that the SI-2K is only 2k, lower sensitivity and 16mm like fov. Despite specs, they were ahead of the game a looooong time ago as far as size and 3d rig configs.
 
My two cents in the interest of fairness. LOL REd have made a rod for their own backs to be fair. Red's marketing leaves a lot to be desired in some people's eyes but the number of times I have read ' call me when it ships', 'vapourware', 'snake oil', 'scam' is so often it's not funny. Then they do ship and I wonder how many people will embrace this as the true giant step forward for moving images that it is and put their prejudice against the company aside. I wonder how many nay sayers will eat some humble pie - whether it lives up to the technological bold claims ( such as it surpasses film ) or not. One thing is for sure - RED had to move this coming year or get lost in the clamour for large sensors but they are so far ahead of the other digital offerings it's no contest. Whether people have a bone to pick with their private forum behaviour, the boss's attitude or the hype machine - these guys sure know how to push things forward. It is a matter of horses for courses and it won't be the tool for every job but ya gotta admit - it's one really cool toy/tool he he he he and who would refuse it if they could afford it?

Call me when all the other companies make as bold a camera or advanced as this..........I cannot afford it but I sure look forward to seeing stuff shot on it - as a consumer.
 
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When productions like the Spiderman franchise, The Hobbit, Pirates of the Caribbean franchise, DP for Ridley Scott, etc., have all stepped up to the place with Epic, that's a fundamental shift in how RED is perceived. Yes, the RED One has been an indie darling, and yes we've seen features like District 9, Book of Eli, and Che shot with it. But when you start talking about making making blockbuster level films with cameras that weren't even shipping to the public yet, that's a paradigm shift. And it gives tacit approval to others who may have been on the fence about whether they could trust it, to really go out and test it.

If I was Kodak, I'd be nervous right now. These types of blockbusters have been the domain of film forever. But suddenly, that's not a given. And if I were Panavision, I'd be losing my lunch.
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
Film quality is subjective, thus some will even disagree that the Epics are 'film quality'.... but I'm going to go in the opposite direction of that and say that I think the SI-2k (mini head) 3D rigs are quite lovely. I look forward to the Epics, but I wouldn't say they were a first in presenting a small 3d rig possibility with an achievable 'film look'. When I say 'film look' I mean acceptably professional. Remember the SI-2K feature 'Slumdog Millionaire' did win A.D.Mantle a Best Cinematography Academy Award! :)

Now there are things to be said that the SI-2K is only 2k, lower sensitivity and 16mm like fov. Despite specs, they were ahead of the game a looooong time ago as far as size and 3d rig configs.
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John Schwartzman ASC said:
I recently concluded my first shoot using the RED ONE MX camera, or rather a pair of them because I was doing reshoots for a film in 3D that I originally shot on film in 2D using anamorphic lenses. I consider anamorphic film the "gold standard" for cinema. The film was "The Green Hornet" which is currently in the process of being converted to 3D, at the time of the reshoots the option for shooting film and converting the new scenes was not an option due to the time constraints of conversion, the vendors are working 24 hours a day just to do the work they were contracted for and adding to their plate was not an option. The dilemma for me was how was a going to find a digital camera that had enough resolution to intercut with anamorphic film, I tested every system, The Arri Alexa, 12 bit F35, RED ONE MX and anamorphic film at the same time, based on this test I chose the RED ONE MX because it had incredible resolution, both the Alexa and the F35 didn't hold up well in 2:40. 2 weeks ago I finished timing the DI with Stefan Sonnenfeld at Co3, in addition to 2 new scenes, there were 4 scenes in which the RED ONE data was intercut with existing Anamorphic film, I was amazed at how transparent the match was, Stefan did a great job and actually we added grain to the MX data to match the film. I would venture to guess that the only way anyone will be able to tell the difference between the film and the MX data is not in the image quality but in field of view differences between shooting flat vs scope. As a die hard film user I must say I have been blown away by the image quality of the MX, it doesn't have the same dynamic range in the highlights as film but I believe with EPIC and HDRx™ it will.
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John Schwartzman ASC said:
I don't really know how to use this forum but here's what I can tell you, the RED crew have treated me like a king, I've have never before the Green Hornet even had my hands on a digital imaging camera and now I feel like an expert, I can talk RECODE with Jim, Deanen and Micheal Cioni and I sound like know what I am talking about! I am not a technical cinematographer, I apprenticed with Vittorio Storaro and he told me to trust my eye and my heart not my meter, and that's what I have done, and with a lot of l luck it has served me well in my career. My experience with the RED camera has been the same as with any other camera, understand how it sees the world, and then use that it tell your story. On the Green Hornet Kodak 5219 made the "Green Hornet's" green jacket look blue, and 5229 made the jacket look green, so I chose 5229 because it saw the world closer to what it really was, the RED MX is the same, understand how it sees the world and do your magic as a cinematographer to help it tell your story. I have been part of a very select group of DP's that have actually shot with the EPIC and I can tell that the 3lb 5K camera is a game changer, end of story, game over, pick your cliche'. I am still very committed to film, it 's still the best data recorder if budget isn't an object. I don't think we've figured out digital archiving, and if you shoot EPIC you will have a lot of data. I will tell you this I have shot more tests on the EPIC than probably any other DP other than my mate Andrew Lesnie who is doing the "Hobbit", we skype daily about how this camera blows our mutual minds, when you see these image projected at 4K it's like looking a vistavision. For those of you lucky enough to get to use this tiny masterpiece all I can say is "data storage" we all asked for less compression and Jim has brought it on us. My thanks to the RED ARMY(Jim, Jarred, Deanen, Ted, Lia, Nate) and LightIron for educating me on de-bayering and not making me afraid of the future of cinematography, and most of all thank you Jim, it's Chanuka, so all I can say is that you are a mensch. I bet you can't wait for my next post! If for some reason I wanted to post on the EPIC site how would I do that?

John
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Nuff said
 
Exactly. No more "almost good enough." It's good enough, and the people making $100M, $300M films are saying it... not the RED team.
 
Film better then digital? Of course it is. Why will anyone make point to that...
If I could ill make movie on 35mm. If I could ill make film on 70mm 15perf. If there 140mm film stock ill be glad to do film on it. Get it?
Epic Red Raw is beautiful format for 50K (lets make the worst scenario) and few people will see the diffirence between 35mm... I will buy it, if someone dont give me same thing for 40K.
 
Film better than digital? Right now, yes. In the future? No. Film is will be surpassed (and is in the active process of being surpassed). In the end, film is not "magical" or some sort of voodoo! It can be 100% replicated if for some reason you wanted that...
...but really, I'd rather see digital and film living happily side-by-side as-is; not one being lost to the other. Anyhow, EPIC being shipped is major news - let's keep the good vibes going :)
 
I'm :happy: that they are shipping out the first Epic.

I'm :( that I can't afford to buy one, maybe a Scarlet someday though.
 
PerroneFord said:
Hmm, I don't recalll Social Network being 3D, or District 9, Rabbit Hole, Book of Eli, etc. I see the Hobbit will be 3D now... ehh, maybe.
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I'm pretty positive Pirates went Red because of the need for digital because of 3D. Needing so many cameras, the Alexa wasn't out yet and there aren't really enough Genesis's or F35's to support a working industry AND a huge film like Pirates 4 3D... requiring double the amount of cameras. :)

Not trying to knock RED or Digital for that matter, but many celluloid peoples who find themselves shooting 3D HAVE to go digital and must choose something... ala Bob Richardson and Alexa's for Hugo.

Cost and availability will cause people who must go digital 3D to go RED. Renting that many genesis or F35's is expensive. Red's are available in numbers and in price. Red for the economical win.

Then again, RedOneMX is a fantastic camera, and people are switching to digital all the time without the necessity of 3D.... ala Roger Deakins and arri alexa.
 
Yep, there's not enough PACE units around to do it, and I guess the SI2K doesn't appeal for whatever reason. Well, Epic seems well timed to take the load of the 3D market right now. Enough resolution for VFX, light enough to make reasonable rigs. I'll be very curious to see how some of the single cam, or traditional A/B/C cam shoots go in 2011 and 2012 as Epic matures and becomes more accepted. I do sense a real digital battle brewing between Alexa and Epic. If the HDRx lives up to the hype, the much ballyhooed dynamic range of the Alexa will be trumped. All that will be left is the color and post workflows. That XDCam proxy workflow out of the Alexa (and now F3) is going to be pretty easy. But I've been playing with the new RCX and the new Redcolor2 and Redcgamma2, and boy does it look nice. I pulled in some old R3Ds from a few years ago, and what a difference...
 
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I had very mixed feelings about that when I read it. But Jim is a resolution guy, so from that POV it makes perfect sense.
 
Schwartzman also said that the mobility of their 3D rig using Epic is the same (almost) as in 2D with a single Panaflex, making handheld and steadicam operations possible. So there's that as well.
 
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