First DSLR for Video

G

ggrantly

Veteran
Hello Listers,

I've been doing video for quite some time, and also do still photography. None of my still cams (5d +40d) presently have video, so I am thinking I'll dip my toe into the dslr video pool. I already have good L-glass. I can't afford a Mk3 just now and would prefer to wait till the prices come down a bit regardless. But I am interested in replacing my 40d with another crop cam; either a 60d or a T4i.

Could anyone recommend one over the other, and give me a brief primer on how well external monitors like the DP4 with viewfinder work. Is my understanding correct that the hdmi output is crippled in some way?

Thanks for the wisdom.
Grant
 
Canon haven't really upgraded their crop DSLRs much with regards to video. I understand that you want to use your Canon glass for video, but you may want to look at some other offerings. Maybe even Sony (they adapt nicely to Canon glass)?

When it comes to HDMI, the only Canon's that won't downscale below 720p are the 5DMKIII and 7D. The live-view output looks pretty horrible at 480p on the others.

Edit: I stand corrected, it seems the T4i outputs 1080i (from dslrfilmmaker).
 
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Got zero experience with the T4i, however....I got a 60D back in December for doing video work with. Due to my schedule I am just now getting to actually work with it as a video cam, and really am liking it. The smaller form factor is great. I shoot with a Canon 24-105mm F4 L "IS USM" lens for the most part.
The HDMi output to a monitor seems to be in standard def. It will not fill the whole screen either. That is when using my Marshall 7" monitor. Don't know about the DP4. Kind of a disappointment, as it can make achieving critical focus more of a challenge.
Also the 60D has a limit of 12 minutes per clip, max. Cannot verify now, but....I think I read that Canon increased that to 30 minutes on T4i. Now that, for an event shooter like me, would seal that deal.
I would really check out that T4i. if it records for 30 min instead of 12....well thats the way I would go.
 
I have the T4i and the SmallHD DP4, and my previous DLSR was the 60D ;-) Compared to the 60D, the 1080i HDMI output on the T4i is a great improvement for monitoring with the DP4. On the 60D there was no real benefit of using an external monitor, because once you started recording the signal dropped to 480p. On the T4i the resolution doesn't drop (and the screen stays on when you hit record), so you really have a bigger, more detailed screen on which it is much easier to judge focus. I find the T4i and DP4 EVF a great combination!

As for the recording limit: I just tested it, and the maximum recording time is 30 minutes of continuous recording! :) It does this by recording 3 4Gigabyte files, which you can join together in your editing software.

The reason for me to trade my 60D for a T4i was that I like the even smaller form factor of the T4i: if you're running and gunning all day all weight counts and somehow I really like the button-layout on the rebels. Also, the full HD HDMI out was a deciding factor, because on the 60D my DP4 wasn't of much use.

Downsides compared to 60D: fact that you can't run Magic Lantern on the T4i (yet): missing audio meters and 1250 ISO.

I also don't like the fact that they removed the 3x crop which is so useful on the T3i (It allows you to do wide-shots and close-ups with just one 17-55 f2.8 lens).
 
I'd spring for the newer T4i over the 60D, with regards to the monitoring and focusing.
If your doing event, and want to shoot long continuous shots... you may need to think about another brand of camera. Sony and GH2 are really pushing the boundaries of video functionalities and limitless recording times. Or picking up a B-Camera like a true video camera. Something you can throw on sticks and leave.
It sounds like photo will still be a factor in choosing your A-Camera, and the bonus of Native glass with camera can lean you to STAYING with canon's offerings.
I do a lot of event stuff (with a GH2 - Canon and Nikon glass) and still, I have rarely ever needed to film longer then 20 mins continuos...much less using a clip that long in my Post Editing.
 
Thanks for the replies. Yes I have standard video cams for most work, and dual audio capabilities, so audio isn't important at all. A dslr for video would just be for b-roll, beauty shots, or stealth. It does sound like the T4i would be better for focus. Yes this cam would be used for still work so that is important too. Where does the 7d fit into this other than costing more money?

I probably would add some type of EVF, how does the DP4+EVF compare to the Cineroid or Zacuto?

Grant
 
I've used both the Zacuto EVF and the SmallHD EVF, and I'd put it this way: if you mainly want an EVF, go for the Zacuto (it smaller and more lightweight, but is too small for use as an external monitor). If you want an external monitor (which can also be used as a bulky EVF) go for the SmallHD.
 
Honestly, I'd go for a t3i over the t4i.

I've never had a problem focusing on my t2i, it's not the best, but it does work. I've never butchered focus enough to have to do anything about it. I'll just zoom in on the live view preview to ensure it's correct.

The t3i will have the same quality video at the t4i, but it will be cheaper and you get the video crop feature not found on teh t4i
 
Personally I would not get the 7D due to its reported over-heating issues from time to time. Has no real advantage over 60D or T4i for video work. The swiveling screen on the 60D and T4i, plus the longer record time on the T4i, and apparent lack of over-heating (or at least to a much lesser extent) in the 60D would seal the deal.

But....if you will use it for stills work too, maybe you could look at the 5D MkIII. I hear it has the 30 min record time, but HDMi is not as good as T4i. The trade-off is its a better stills camera, if you need that for your clients.
 
sewolla said:
Personally I would not get the 7D due to its reported over-heating issues from time to time. Has no real advantage over 60D or T4i for video work. The swiveling screen on the 60D and T4i, plus the longer record time on the T4i, and apparent lack of over-heating (or at least to a much lesser extent) in the 60D would seal the deal.

But....if you will use it for stills work too, maybe you could look at the 5D MkIII. I hear it has the 30 min record time, but HDMi is not as good as T4i. The trade-off is its a better stills camera, if you need that for your clients.
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A mk3 is in my future as my 5d ages, but I'm not ready for that just yet. I want to replace my crop cam first since it isn't such a big pill to swallow.

Since the T4i is almost the same price as the 60d, what is any advantages does the 60d have for either video or still work?

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Grant
 
ggrantly said:
A mk3 is in my future as my 5d ages, but I'm not ready for that just yet. I want to replace my crop cam first since it isn't such a big pill to swallow.

Since the T4i is almost the same price as the 60d, what is any advantages does the 60d have for either video or still work?

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Grant
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If you want to run external monitors then I'd suggest the t4i over the 60d. Proper HD for live-view monitoring is important for focus pulling if you want to use monitors.
 
I have heard some say that the 60D is more comfortable to hold than the smaller T3/T4i series. With the battery grip on, it's very easy to get a good grip on. Plus it does look "professional" to many clients, maybe a bit more so than the smaller T3/T4i would....

But really in terms of video quality they should be same deal. Same chip in both.
Neither will have noticably "better" video, although the 60D's larger size might help you hold it more steadily, so that could be a factor. Comfort does count too.

With either one, I would definately get the battery grip. It makes life a lot easier at least on the 60D, and importantly, allows you to swap out batteries while on a tripod without taking the cam off the tripod first. That's important because the batteries don't last too long when tasked with shooting video. So keeping spare batteries on hand and having a fast easy way to swap them out is important.
 
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sewolla said:
I have heard some say that the 60D is more comfortable to hold than the smaller T3/T4i series. With the battery grip on, it's very easy to get a good grip on. Plus it does look "professional" to many clients, maybe a bit more so than the smaller T3/T4i would....
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I mean, once the thing is rigged up does it really make a difference? Also, I never have to take my t2i off my rig as I have full access to the battery slot.

sewolla said:
Sounds like a great reason to me
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+1

I won't upgrade my t2i to the t4i because there's hardly a difference between the two to warrant the expense, but if I was in the market for a fresh Canon (as in not owning any other) then I'd go t4i for that HD output too.
 
gg - I think you're making the right choice- as long as you can live with the recording time limit. Coming from camcorders and still cameras, I think you'll like the T4i's ability to autofocus in video mode. I just rented one to check it out and it works great, especially with the touch screen. None of the other Canons have video autofocus (or a touch screen). As a GH2 guy and sometimes event shooter, I can't live with the 30 minute limit, but if I could, I'd seriously consider the T4i.

Cheers,

Bill
 
kylevant said:
I mean, once the thing is rigged up does it really make a difference? Also, I never have to take my t2i off my rig as I have full access to the battery slot.
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I definitely could not access the battery compartment of my ungripped T2i when it was mounted on a tripod or attached to a 2" QR plate. A grip solved that problem since the battery tray is on the side, not the bottom.
of all your choices, I'd go with the T4i, especially if you don't mind the smaller size and are ok with the control layout.
 
The t4i also supports file spanning (not sure if anyone mentioned that yet), so it can go more than 12-minutes of recording time in a shot. Also supports Canon's new silent-autofocus for video, which will be available for specific lenses when they come out.

At the moment, Magic Lantern only exists on the Digic4 generation (60D, t2i, etc), so that's something to consider as well. I would pick the t2i/t3i/60D for that alone, but hopefully ML will end up on the digic5 soon enough. And with it, some awesome new features that the new digic chip can bring!

Meanwhile (and I hate to do this in the Canon section), perhaps you should also consider DSLRs from other manufacturers. Currently, you are asking here and getting Canon-centric answers. Ask in the general discussion area, you'll probably get a lot of folks pointing you towards a GH2. The GH2 has all of the benefits that the t4i brought (HDMI live, spanning, etc), and still offers a crop mode (that oddly was only on the t3i), and some other goodies as well. But, its no Canon.

I know you said you have a lot of L glass, so perhaps that's a consideration, but I shoot with both and very often use Canon EOS lenses on my GH2 with an adapter with excellent results.
 
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