Firewire adapters
- Thread starter DeeKay
- Start date
Barry_Green
Moderator
There is no streaming of USB. USB is only for copying the P2 card files over.
If your laptop doesn't already have a firewire port, and you want to do live streaming, a PCMCIA firewire card is a perfectly reasonable approach.
If your laptop doesn't already have a firewire port, and you want to do live streaming, a PCMCIA firewire card is a perfectly reasonable approach.
You obviously know that I am talking about streaming video to a field monitor. It is not that this word is misused, just maybe its gone through a semantic drift. Honestly if that is all you wanted to post in response you need to understand that this sounds pretentious AND full of BS.
And I'm not talking about broadcasting here I'm talking about using a field monitor during video production. I'm pretty sure that "streaming" is a sufficient word here to describe this.
wgzn
Veteran
NO. i dont or i wouldnt have made the comment. you might find yourself surprised by the range of some peoples perception and use of the word... and considering you are new here, i just wanted to make sure that you werent headed down the wrong path.
again, no. you make NO mention or reference to anything other than connecting your camera to your laptop.
you might want to consider downplaying the attitude a bit... i was really just trying to circumvent a pretty common misconception. its all about sharing experience and information here. if someone new to the game sees this thread and gleans a little handy info. then thats good for everyone. dont ya think?
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wgzn
Veteran
and for what its worth, i wouldnt really use the term "stream" for sending an image to a field monitor. stream typically refers to moving data and in most cases youre not sending data to a field monitor... now if youre using your laptop AS a field monitor, then the semantics get a bit more ambiguous...
and we would have no idea from your original post whether you were doing a live capture OR simply using your laptop as a monitor...
but either way. no need to get all snarky
and we would have no idea from your original post whether you were doing a live capture OR simply using your laptop as a monitor...
but either way. no need to get all snarky
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I disagree, there is nothing "handy" about taking a text book term to far.
Common sense should tell you that if I want to stream footage directly from HVX to laptop then I am probably wanting to monitor. What else would I be doing?
Wow, that's quite a sidetrack from the original point of the post. Nice word analysis.
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wgzn
Veteran
no. it absolutely DOES NOT.
yes, whatever you are shooting, you will want to monitor some way or another. but if i understand your point (and do forgive me if im just completely misunderstanding your point) you are stating rather emphatically that the main reason to connect a camera to a laptop is for monitoring purposes. and that, im sorry, is simply not true.
well, i "stream" video from my camera to my laptop via firewire very frequently for live and or time lapse or other capture situations. and "monitoring" doesnt even come into that part of the equation. i more often than not will be running the SDI/component out of the camera to a proper production monitor while capturing or doing live chroma reference via firewire to the laptop. not to say that i wont also be LOOKING at whats happening on the laptop, but you just cant assume that thats THE most typical or "common sense" use for that setup.
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Why? Is it because you do a good bit of ENG because I can see that you work in a different kind of video so you may have different needs. Are you broadcasting to web?
This sort of fake "harvardesque" dialect is becoming more transparent these days. You shouldn't assume others are incapable of talking like this, maybe for some reason we choose not to. When you talk to good professional people, you can distinguish them well because they don't do that stuff.
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Basically all this translates to "I like to use the laptop while I'm shooting as a color reference." Or if by chroma you mean chroma KEY then you're saying "I like to use the laptop as a monitor while I'm shooting greenscreen."
Either way just say it in plain English. Why are you telling me what kind of cables you used? There is nothing that makes you sound like an expert by using the words component, SDI, chroma, etc. To someone who has never hooked up a VCR maybe, yes. Counterintuitively you reveal that you know little more about video than anyone else.
So the point is if you don't have an answer to someone's question on a forum that helps them with that particular problem, you're not helping, nor necessarily are you more of an expert. You're just looking for somewhere to type. But what you need to do with all that energy is take it and write in a personal journal or something.
Before everyone goes into a frenzy I can tell you the official definitions for streaming apply to just about anything digital sent over N/xKbits or bytes, with or without buffering. Including SATA 3.0/Gbs drives.
SDI interfaces are streaming data, the P2 card reading or writing streaming data, hard drives in computers receive block or stream writes. MP3 music DVD's and MicroMV are also stream formats. Any kind of video file your NLE is using is considered a "stream". 99% of all video codecs are based on the concept of data streaming. AES/EBU, LightPipe, SPDIF, EDIE, SATA, P2 cards, even the SQL database running this bulletin board are "streaming".
Yes I can understand how "streaming" can be misinterpreted in the internet age where the data downloaded via http vs. a real time protocol is what determines "streaming" vs. download, but in fact it's a misnomer, its determined by the speed of the connection vs. buffering ability. It can also be misinterpreted when the receiver of the data either has to gather it at the same bitrate or 1x speed of stream, or does not retain a persistent copy of this data.
Streaming can also be confused with data persistence when Constant Bit Rate (CBR) or Variable Bit Rate (VBR) data models are used. Where a CBR connection is more likely to be considered a stream while a VBR is not, though in fact it is. As in 48khz/16bit audio uncompressed is a stream data. Whether sent over SPDIF or played from a hard-drive or recorded in protools or via an HVX camera.
A stream is a persitent (can break but will be re-established by the application) data connection over any type of BUS with or without buffering. That includes IP, FTP, HTTP blah blah blah... Viewing a live feed on an SDI or HD-SDI monitor is also streaming (not on an analogue one though).
Now all semantics aside, what everyone here is trying to say is the following:
The HVX200 allows for different uses of the IEEE 1394 interface.
It could be put into HOST or TARGET
In TARGET mode, the camera can operate in, STORAGE, VIDEO DEVICE.
To view "semi buffered" live output from the camera the CAM needs to be set into TARGET -> VIDEO DEVICE mode as per the OHCI 1394 spec. It's particular video stream has to be recognized by the software.
In storage mode, the CAM acts like a OHCI 1394 Storage Target (a firewire drive basically), and allows one to transfer either whole P2 images or Log/Transfer footage from the P2.
The last target is a DV target for Log/Transfer from the DV cam tape deck on the device, this allows for VTR controls inband over firewire.
USB (even 2.0) on the HVX200 suppors the USB Storage Only. Hence no live video strams to OnLocation or any other. (i.e. / e.g. will look like a USB removable drive and less like a USB Webcam which would be USB VIDEO)
The ultimate solution is to select a proper Firewire Host adapter (less than $30) thats OHCI compliant.
Also most intel laptops (Mac and PC) have a "shared" firewire bus, with like 3 or 4 plugs sometimes. However they create bottlenecks between devices, so if you have another device in the mix like a Firewire Drive or Firewire SoundCard or AJA IO/HD. Get another dedicated PCMCIA 1394 interface or Cardbus34/54 which ever the laptop supports to get the most optimal results in getting a live data feed without stutter from the camera onto the HOST computer. (Included in the IOHD manual as a prereq). The most expensive one I've seen is $119.00
SDI interfaces are streaming data, the P2 card reading or writing streaming data, hard drives in computers receive block or stream writes. MP3 music DVD's and MicroMV are also stream formats. Any kind of video file your NLE is using is considered a "stream". 99% of all video codecs are based on the concept of data streaming. AES/EBU, LightPipe, SPDIF, EDIE, SATA, P2 cards, even the SQL database running this bulletin board are "streaming".
Yes I can understand how "streaming" can be misinterpreted in the internet age where the data downloaded via http vs. a real time protocol is what determines "streaming" vs. download, but in fact it's a misnomer, its determined by the speed of the connection vs. buffering ability. It can also be misinterpreted when the receiver of the data either has to gather it at the same bitrate or 1x speed of stream, or does not retain a persistent copy of this data.
Streaming can also be confused with data persistence when Constant Bit Rate (CBR) or Variable Bit Rate (VBR) data models are used. Where a CBR connection is more likely to be considered a stream while a VBR is not, though in fact it is. As in 48khz/16bit audio uncompressed is a stream data. Whether sent over SPDIF or played from a hard-drive or recorded in protools or via an HVX camera.
A stream is a persitent (can break but will be re-established by the application) data connection over any type of BUS with or without buffering. That includes IP, FTP, HTTP blah blah blah... Viewing a live feed on an SDI or HD-SDI monitor is also streaming (not on an analogue one though).
Now all semantics aside, what everyone here is trying to say is the following:
The HVX200 allows for different uses of the IEEE 1394 interface.
It could be put into HOST or TARGET
In TARGET mode, the camera can operate in, STORAGE, VIDEO DEVICE.
To view "semi buffered" live output from the camera the CAM needs to be set into TARGET -> VIDEO DEVICE mode as per the OHCI 1394 spec. It's particular video stream has to be recognized by the software.
In storage mode, the CAM acts like a OHCI 1394 Storage Target (a firewire drive basically), and allows one to transfer either whole P2 images or Log/Transfer footage from the P2.
The last target is a DV target for Log/Transfer from the DV cam tape deck on the device, this allows for VTR controls inband over firewire.
USB (even 2.0) on the HVX200 suppors the USB Storage Only. Hence no live video strams to OnLocation or any other. (i.e. / e.g. will look like a USB removable drive and less like a USB Webcam which would be USB VIDEO)
The ultimate solution is to select a proper Firewire Host adapter (less than $30) thats OHCI compliant.
Also most intel laptops (Mac and PC) have a "shared" firewire bus, with like 3 or 4 plugs sometimes. However they create bottlenecks between devices, so if you have another device in the mix like a Firewire Drive or Firewire SoundCard or AJA IO/HD. Get another dedicated PCMCIA 1394 interface or Cardbus34/54 which ever the laptop supports to get the most optimal results in getting a live data feed without stutter from the camera onto the HOST computer. (Included in the IOHD manual as a prereq). The most expensive one I've seen is $119.00
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Sometimes to help, in technical matters one needs to clarify certain details. The exact and succinct communication in necessary in these matters. I direct you to the following wiki link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette
I've been told that I'm incomprehensible online in forums sometimes. It happens. I accept it. Please don't take any commentary you get here as a personal affront, 99 percent of the forum members are kind and nice people, This is by far one of the nicer forums filled with creative people on the net.
Perhaps we should digress and discuss the cam now.
Dee Kay - Barry Green, who has written several books on this subject, didn't know what you were talking about.
I thought you were referring to streaming everything but pN out to something like the firestore.
In any, might be best to move on.
best
Dee Kay - Barry Green, who has written several books on this subject, didn't know what you were talking about.
I thought you were referring to streaming everything but pN out to something like the firestore.
In any, might be best to move on.
best
That may be, but he answered my question fine and concisely before this wgzn guy comes along and starts some random analysis of the word "streaming." I mean, what is that? Irrelevant.
Sometimes you're just wanting help on a forum for a quick question about a camera you're unfamiliar with, and here comes along that same guy that wants to make it look like you haven't touched a camera at all.
Anyways other than that I've figured things out just fine now so thanks for the help, I appreciate the help that was relevant.
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Ted Spencer
Veteran
A nice deep breath is in order here...