GH3 Final verdict on moire and sharpness setting?

flinty said:
how do i remove the interlacing
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In Sony Vegas Pro, I set the project properties to "progressive" and de-interlacing method to "none".

...In case you are curious, I just tried this with Sony "Movie Studio 11" ( editing software that costs $45 US to buy ) and it works exactly the same as the $600 Sony Vegas Pro software that I normally use.

Download Link for Trial of Sony Movie Studio 11 Software

Sony Movie Studio Info

Sony Movie Studio software works identically to the professional version of Vegas, so if you learn to edit with the $45 version, you will be right at home with the $600 professional verson.
 
flinty said:
Edit https://vimeo.com/57369071 my hand held is not very good but it shows poor M & A and why for acceptable results its got to be a tripod for me and my GH2,would the the GH3 be better if i was using one there,i know the render has caused some judder but the M & A is the same as on the raw files.
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Shirley you can't be serious. Even the added graphics ( 6 - 1 - 2013 ) right on the first clip exhibits double vertical pixels - ie half vertical resolution. You are clearly messing up between 50i and 25p somewhere in your workflow.
 
Martti Ekstrand said:
Shirley you can't be serious. Even the added graphics ( 6 - 1 - 2013 ) right on the first clip exhibits double vertical pixels - ie half vertical resolution. You are clearly messing up between 50i and 25p somewhere in your workflow.
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Why does everyone talk about workflow,my footage looks the same when played direct from the camera or card strait into my BD Player,to get no M & A on my camera it has to fixed steady on a tripod,
 
flinty said:
Why does everyone talk about workflow,my footage looks the same when played direct from the camera or card strait into my BD Player,to get no M & A on my camera it has to fixed steady on a tripod,
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We mention the workflow because I don't think any of us GH2 users have ever seen M & A this bad from the GH2 ever. Ever.
As for myself, as someone who has worked in TV since the early 90's, I can say the issue looks very much like an interlacing problem. What the actual problem is I can't say for sure, but it LOOKS like interlaced footage that is only displaying one of the two fields of video, and creating horrible aliasing. If you say you are getting the same result when viewing on your BD player, perhaps your BD player or TV isn't set to view interlaced footage correctly.

I'm in the U.S. so my camera is NTSC, so I don't know the quirks of a UK GH2, so all this is somewhat conjecture.

I took a peek at your other films on Vimeo. Your "Deer in September" video shows the same problem, but the earlier one at the Olympics doesn't. Did you change any settings between those two videos?
 
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Flinty,

Seeing your video got me curious to find the reason for the image problem, and I stumbled onto this thread.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?297856-GH2-HBR-Interlaced-noise

You were asking similar questions about HBR and interlacing artifacts. This thread and others on Personal View.com have led me to believe that it's definitely an issue with shooting HBR. HBR encodes a progressive image in an interlaced wrapper, but writes incorrect metadata, so editing programs and Blu-Ray players don't know to play the files as progressive. That's why they look so crappy. You have to manually "re-wrap" them, or tell your editing program that the files are indeed progressive.
 
dvbrother said:
We mention the workflow because I don't think any of us GH2 users have ever seen M & A this bad from the GH2 ever. Ever.
As for myself, as someone who has worked in TV since the early 90's, I can say the issue looks very much like an interlacing problem. What the actual problem is I can't say for sure, but it LOOKS like interlaced footage that is only displaying one of the two fields of video, and creating horrible aliasing. If you say you are getting the same result when viewing on your BD player, perhaps your BD player or TV isn't set to view interlaced footage correctly.

I'm in the U.S. so my camera is NTSC, so I don't know the quirks of a UK GH2, so all this is somewhat conjecture.

I took a peek at your other films on Vimeo. Your "Deer in September" video shows the same problem, but the earlier one at the Olympics doesn't. Did you change any settings between those two videos?
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Thanks for trying to help dvbrother,ever since pana gave the 1.1 update i have used that with 25P HBR but 24P rates hAS the same M & A problems now,50i and 720P less but 720P is low resolution,the cleanest footage is 50i but it is far from perfect,i did sme tests this morn and M & A starts when recording start,and shows in the cameras lcd and when played back via hdmi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt2NgO8Zi1w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz2VvxCuPDA
These films were done before the the update in 50i,the olympic film was HBR like Deer in september.

Edit forgot its not my BD player,playing from camera to tv via hdmi is the same and my tvs are fine with FZ150 interlaced footage and progressive from other sources .thanks again
 
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Here's what's interesting: the first video "Various Places" looks fine. There are a few shots that show moire but it's things like the grille pattern on a vehicle, so it's to be expected.

But the second video "Duck Feeding" really has that interlace problem. All the ducks look like they're made out of jagged lines.

I would would discount what the video looks like in the camera's LCD. It's not full resolution and things will always look like they have moire.
As to your TV, I'm not sure.

What editing program do you use? The fact that some videos look fine while others don't leads me to believe something is changing in the settings of your editing program. Either in your timeline or on output.
Again, the GH2 shouldn't exhibit these problems. I've never had them.
 
dvbrother said:
Here's what's interesting: the first video "Various Places" looks fine. There are a few shots that show moire but it's things like the grille pattern on a vehicle, so it's to be expected.

But the second video "Duck Feeding" really has that interlace problem. All the ducks look like they're made out of jagged lines.

I would would discount what the video looks like in the camera's LCD. It's not full resolution and things will always look like they have moire.
As to your TV, I'm not sure.

What editing program do you use? The fact that some videos look fine while others don't leads me to believe something is changing in the settings of your editing program. Either in your timeline or on output.
Again, the GH2 shouldn't exhibit these problems. I've never had them.
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Thank but Please i have said numerous times my unedited footage is exactly the same played via HDMI to tv as after editing,its nothing to do with the editing,as i said i did test again today and playing the results direct to tv 25 and 24P M & A was worse than 50i,viewing through the viewfinder there is no m & a until recording starts its that clear.Mine must have problems but i cant risk getting another and plan going camcoder.
 
flinty said:
Mine must have problems but i cant risk getting another and plan going camcoder.
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Can you post a download link to a raw .MTS file that shows the problem ? ( even a free Google Drive account will allow you to post large files for free )

I would like to try processing your file the way I normally do things, and see if I see any problem. ( I strongly suspect you are not processing the files properly )
 
TheDingo said:
Can you post a download link to a raw .MTS file that shows the problem ? ( even a free Google Drive account will allow you to post large files for free )

I would like to try processing your file the way I normally do things, and see if I see any problem. ( I strongly suspect you are not processing the files properly )
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Sorry but no,the problem is there as soon as recording starts,are you saying the footage is fine but not processed correctly ? with my GH2 it clearly goes from a clean picture to one with M & A that is easily visible in the viewfinder or lcd and the problem is on the files playing back to tv from camera via hdmi,so i dont know where processing comes into it,i have never had to process video from camcorders or cameras to remove bad M & A like i get now.One thing i am not sure of is whether it is normal for the picture to be clean when monitoring but change to the M & A problems when recording starts.Thank you trying to help.
 
flinty said:
Sorry but no,the problem is there as soon as recording starts
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So you are seeing moire and aliasing on the GH2 LCD and any external monitors you have plugged into the camera while you are shooting?

...I've been shooting with my GH2 for the past two years ( I've shot many paid jobs with it and some Indie short films ), and I can think of only two shoots where I could see a tiny bit of aliasing or moire. Every other shoot I've done with the GH2 the image was pristine, with no visible moire or aliasing in my shots. This makes me think something is very wrong with your set-up if you are seeing moire or aliasing in your images.
 
Again, the fact that you are seeing M & A on your LCD is irrelevant, as I see that all the time on my GH2's LCD but it never appears when viewing the footage on a full HD resolution monitor or TV.
I think what we are suggesting, is that there's something in the way the GH2 outputs progressive footage IN AN INTERLACED STREAM that may cause M & A when viewing on your TV (possibly it goes to half resolution when recording?). And a SEPARATE BUT RELATED issue is improper processing by your editing program (or something). The HBR of the GH2 notoriously records a progressive image embedded in an interlaced wrapper. But, unlike the camcorders you suggest, the HBR metadata is goofy and confuses editing programs as to how to display it. This is the crux of the problem, but it can be solved, at least in terms of fixing your final output.
 
SuperSet said:
You can pick out geographic locations just from grass color? That's some serious skill, man. :)
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Where did geographic locations come into it,any grass always has a too much of yellow look on mine and i dont think it was correct on the film,most colour is good on these cameras.
 
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